Advice on a Tricky Hand Pleasssseee! (I and II merged)

JuliusFranco · 09-09-2005 2:14pm #1

well, probably not too tricky for your poker gurus!

A good telling off needed here!!

Got to play poker the other night for the first time in ages! In I went to the €20 rebuy game and this hand occurred a few hands in.
Early days, i'm on the button with 925 in chips, everyone has between 400 and 1500.) Blinds 10/25

I'm dealt KQd. After two MP limpers, I make it 125 to go. The blinds call as do the 2 limpers (Pot now 625)

Flop brings KKx with 2 hearts.

It's checked around to me.

I thoughts were this: AK? No way. Two of the players would bet with a flush draw. Not too sure about the other 2. I should bet about 6 or 700 hundred here. But I'm saw these players check and they all look like they have nothing. I should bet 700 but they'll all probably fold and I want to accumulate chips here... Maybe i should build the pot...oh my head hurts...

I decided to be unimaginative and check too and hope that no more hearts come down.

If this was a freezout, I think I would have bet the pot here. I didn't. I'm gave one of the 4 other players free cards. Greed.

This really bad right? I hate slowplaying a pot bigger than half my stack (check flop, big bet turn blaa blaa blaa). I should be happy to take it down there and then right?

So I'd really appreciate it if ye could give your thoughts on this hand (pre flop and post flop).

Thanks

Lafortezza · 09-09-2005 2:26pm

Nothing wrong with the way you played it. By checking the flop you increase the chances of someone with AT hitting a Ten on the turn and paying you off.
You also increase the chance of someone with 44 hitting a 4 on the turn and outdrawing you. As long as you are happy to increase the chances of being outdrawn then there's no problems.

Preflop, perfectly good raise from the button witha decent hand.

Personally I might be that flop 400 or 500, but nothing wrong with checking and hoping someone hits something on the turn. In this game with those stacks, any more betting will definitely have you and one or two more players all-in.

Ste05 · 09-09-2005 2:28pm

it depends on what you did later and how the rest of the hand played out, but I certainly would have bet this flop, no point in giving 3 players a free card, it's a re-buy so you might have got a loose call or a speculative re-raise. A check would smell of trips. The amount to bet is the problem, with your stack and the size of the pot, myself personally would have bet half the pot, no point in letting a third heart on board kill your hand.

Lafortezza · 09-09-2005 2:34pm

I don't see after 4 people check in front of him, then he checks, 'smells of trips'!
He must figure that he's waaay out in front right now, if he bets, everyone might fold.
He needs someone to hit something to get paid, it's risky but gamble no lose!

JuliusFranco · 09-09-2005 2:34pm

thanks a mil lads!

quick note!

Ste05 wrote:

it depends on what you did later and how the rest of the hand played out....

thanks Ste05 but i'm more concerned with my multi-way pot play on the flop here. that is it's my decision to check (and not really knowing what to do) which has me bothered.

Hectorjelly · 09-09-2005 2:44pm

I bet the flop most of the time here.

Ste05 · 09-09-2005 2:44pm

lafortezza wrote:

I don't see after 4 people check in front of him, then he checks, 'smells of trips'!
He must figure that he's waaay out in front right now, if he bets, everyone might fold.
He needs someone to hit something to get paid, it's risky but gamble no lose!

Agreed, although I just think it's too risky, only because of the two hearts. Otherwise the check will be fine, maybe someone will get fruity on the turn and try a bluff. It is a re-buy though so they may not necessarily all fold.

Hitman Actual · 09-09-2005 2:47pm

I dont like the check here, tbh. You'll only get action if someone hits a hand that puts you in big trouble, i.e. the flush. I think you need to pot-commit yourself on the flop, making any flush draws pay. You might even get a call from someone who's "trapping" with the case king and weaker kicker.

JuliusFranco · 09-09-2005 2:57pm

Hectorjelly wrote:

I bet the flop most of the time here.

how much and why?

Paladin · 09-09-2005 3:00pm

Would agree with Lenny. Four people in is too many holding just trips and a possible flush draw, considering the pot is reasonably tasty to take down. Make them pay to play. If one guy stays in and you feel its for just a flush draw you are odds on to win.

Of course all play really depends on what the opposition are playing like. Most times in a healthy situation (not on short stack) I will try and take the pot without too much gambling. With maybe one caller Id let him see another card. Not three.

Imposter · 09-09-2005 3:06pm

If you think some of the players are good, I'd bet just enough to not make you seem pot commited but also on a flush draw. 350 seems about right. Then if they come over the top you get all-in. Yes you want to accumulate chips here but a free card is suicide. A cheap card is dangerous too but in this case I think it's the best play with the least risk. Betting 400 or more means if anyones watching they can see you are pot commited.

NickyOD · 09-09-2005 3:08pm

JuliusFranco wrote:

how much and why?

It depends on your oponents but I would probably bet 400 to make it look like standard continuation bet. Any more and you'll just blow everyone out of it. It's not terrible if you get action from a player on a draw. Your hand is too big to be afraid of that, and as has been said in several posts here about slowplaying you are always more likely to get your opoennts chips on earlier streets. You may even induce a raise from a weaker hand.

Hectorjelly · 09-09-2005 3:18pm

JuliusFranco wrote:

how much and why?

Because people expect you to check KQ/Ak there. I bet 300/350 which might tempt a underpair to go all in. If you slowplay it then anyone with any sense will put you on a king when you raise later in the hand.

BloodBath · 09-09-2005 3:31pm

I would have made at least a pot sized bet in this situation. If the pot wasn't already big i'd be willing to check and try to let them fill something but with some decent chips already in there you really don't want to give them any free cards with a possible flush out there imo. So either a pot sized bet or all in. Say another heart did come on ethe river and one of them went all in. The hances are he may well be bluffing but that put's you in a very bad position and chances are that you would fold. Put them in the hard situations, don't let them do it to you.

JuliusFranco · 09-09-2005 3:58pm

Part II

4th Street: Qc . Again all check to me. Everyone is really showing a lot of weakness and now i've got a monster! I decide that i'm going to check too. I'm sitting there with the biggest monster i've got in months and i haven't got a fuking clue what to do. Gimmeanaceofheartsontheriver!

Any advice??

River: not a heart or a picture card. i'm praying for someone to wake up but everyone just looks dull and disinterested.

SB Check
BB Check
Limper 1 - Bets 100
Limper 2 - Calls
Button Me - ??

Here's how it panned out:

I'm looking at the 2 blinds. they look like they are going to call the 100. How much would they call? 500,300,200... i min raised it to 200 hoping everyone would call (maybe someone might "punish my cheek" by re-raising)
Everyone called the 200 and i sheepishly show my kings full (everyone mucked pretty quickly, I heard a murmur about 2 pair...)

How did i do? Maybe a raise to 250 might have worked too but I felt 300 was too much.

Lafortezza · 09-09-2005 4:07pm

Bet the turn, half the pot or a touch more, you want to win a big pot which is unlikely if you wait until the river as you'll only get one bet. If everyone folds when you bet the turn then you were unlikely to win much more on the river since nobody had a hand.
Can't win them all (big).

Lafortezza · 09-09-2005 4:10pm

Threads merged to keep it all tidy!

JuliusFranco · 09-09-2005 4:14pm

lafortezza wrote:

Threads merged to keep it all tidy!

cool, i just thought they were 2 different situations really. sorry for the mess

Daithio · 09-09-2005 7:04pm

I think I would have bet the flop here hoping to find an idiot with a ten or someone with a weaker king. If AK is out that's just tough. In a rebuy you will find that someone with a flush draw is defo going to call so your bet will not get rid of them anyway but will just build the pot which is what you want.

If I get a call I check the queen and try and look weak, praying for a heart on the river and hoping they'll bluff if there is none. When it doesn't come I bet about half the pot on the river or maybe slightly less hoping someone goes over the top. By the looks of things that wouldn't have happened though.

If, on the other hand I had checked the flop I think I would bet the turn, as if somebody hasn't found anything by this stage you're simply not going to get paid anyway, and you might have gotten lucky with someone hitting a queen and thinking it's good or maybe holding 10j or some crap like that and foolishly calling for the straight. I'd probably bet around half the pot. On the river then I'd bet about the same if checked to me, if they bet I go over the top, probably all in depending on the size of their bet. Maybe min raise.

Advice on a Tricky Hand Pleasssseee! (I and II merged)

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