Whats the facination Irish people have with new cars?

jetsonx

Whats the facination Irish people have with new cars? Ok apart from the Tiger etc etc. Every new year there is a rush to get a new car. I cannot understand it. Economically speaking a new car is a terrible investment. One of the few investments that drops in value 5-10 % one month after you buy it.

I cannot understand it. So what if there is a "new car" smell. So what if there is a newer model (btw, newer models are always a bad buy anyway - wait 12 months till all the creases have been ironed out by the manufacturer is what all the motoring pros recommend). So what is the facination ?

ciasto

All good points and I agree with all of them.

If you buy a used car smart you might get a year out of it, sell it and not loose a cent. Unless you really got too much money then by all means do it.

The worst part is that most of the people buy on hire purchase, never own their own the car and end up with a baloon payment which costs more then the current market value of the given car.

Blitzkrieger

Snobbery. Pure and simple.

"New car smell" is formaldahyde used to treat the leather. If you want new car smell all the time, carry a corpse around with you. In america this would be great because you could use the car pool lane.

kdevitt

Could never understand it myself - you could have a high specced 4/5 year old Merc/BMW/Lexus for the same price as a new Micra...

A colleague in here bought a brand new Citroen C4 Coupe in March and wants rid of it already - cost him €22k (including a €2k discount). Victor Motors are selling a higher specced version of his one, brand new, for €19,800 now - which means he'll be lucky to get €18k for his - so a €4k loss in the space of 6 months...

masterK

Hey don't complain about, it means that there are no shortage of good second cars available for those of us who don't have to have a new car.

Wait until the SSIA's mature, there a will be throngs of people looking to buy brand new cars, thus increasing the availibility of good quality second hand models even further.

ds20prefecture

A lot of people buy new because they want to be sure of the car's history. If it has none, then they are sure of it. This is, of course, somewhat flawed logic, as the new car might have been sitting unused out in the weather for 6 months before buying it.

When you look at the bunch of crooks the motor trade is full of, and the kind of pot luck you take buying privately you can see the attraction.

Why not buy a new micra with a guarantee for €15000 instead of potentially waste €14000 on a tarted up beemer that might have had the arse driven out of it for 5 years? The point is, the bulk of people wouldn't spot that the Beemer might be a dog - they see shiny paint and a blue & white badge and swoon.Knowing this they buy new.

And of course to show the neighbours that your doing so much better than them.

unkel

ds20prefecture wrote:

And of course to show the neighbours that your doing so much better than them.

Mainly that methinks

DubTony

Blitzkrieger wrote:

Snobbery. Pure and simple.

"New car smell" is formaldahyde used to treat the leather. If you want new car smell all the time, carry a corpse around with you. In america this would be great because you could use the car pool lane.

One problem with that is that as your passenger decomposes, he will scare small children at traffic lights.

Guy:Incognito

DubTony wrote:

One problem with that is that as your passenger decomposes, he will scare small children at traffic lights.

I would have thought that was a bonus, no?

Dagon

"you could have a high specced 4/5 year old Merc/BMW/Lexus for the same price as a new Micra..."

I don't understand it at all! Imagine, you could have a **** hot 00 or 01 Honda Integra for the price of one of those small new Citroen models. It doesn't make sense to me...

Or a 98 Nissan Skyline for the price of a new Fiat :eek:

AlanD

The culture of the new car rush was created for the most part in 1987 when the government introduced the new number plate system. Although the system makes sense and makes cars easily trackable, etc., it has in fact created a hierarchical system with in the motor industry where people over the years are slowly but surely buying in to the snobbish notion of having the latest year on their number plate. There is a feel good factor associated with having your 05 car in January and already people are ordering cars for January 06 delivery.

The system has created a top heavy industry where the bulk of the year's cars are sold in the first quarter of any year. Come September, there's always a big slowdown in new car sales. People are not ordering for November/December delivery, they'll order for January delivery because what has happened for resale values of these new cars is once a car trips over a year, there will be automatic depreciation. So if you happen to pick up your new car on December 31st 2005, on January 1st 2006, you will have depreciated even more than normal.

The same thing happens in the UK but not to the same extreme as Ireland. Thing is, if you're in the market for a fresh second hand car or a new car, you will get a good deal towards the end of the calendar year because dealers are more eager to sell cars on the lot before the new year dawns. But that good deal will soon be ruled out once the year changes.

unkel

AlanD wrote:

if you're in the market for a fresh second hand car or a new car, you will get a good deal towards the end of the calendar year

Yep you're effectively sponsored by the January buyers

Anyone thinking of buying a nice new luxobarge in January '06? Make sure you'll tick all the options on the list for me? Thank you

Big Nelly

Worst I ever seen was in the year 2000....how many cars where bought that year? was like everyone was waiting to get a 00 number plate! didnt they run out of space on number plates in Dublin becasue so many where bought? have to admit my parents bought a 00 that year and I have a 00 now but I just bnought this year

It is all the better so many people are buying brand new cars....means the second hand car market is great and you can pick up some bargains!!

mike65

Apart from the number plate syndrome it has to be remembered this was up until recently a pretty poor country, most ppl did'nt own a car those who did had a heap or a company car which was a heap-in-waiting. Suddenly the place is flush as interest rates hit a sustained historic low. It hardly suprising
ppl went a bit mad.

Still as noted its good news for those after a used vehicle and its my impresion that second hand cars are getting ever cheaper comparitavely speaking. Spotted an Audi A8 2.8 from 1997 for 11,000 the other week.

Mike.

Nuttzz

New cars are not investments they are a means of transport.

Some Pros of a New Car

No dodgy pervious owners
No worries about previous damage
No worries about outstanding finance
3 year warranty on most cars
Less worry of breakdown
Modern technology as standard (e.g. sat nav)

AlanD

Nuttzz wrote:

Modern technology as standard (e.g. sat nav)

Ok, what car out there has sat nav as standard that the average joe or josephine soap can afford?

Only the upper crust who kit out their cars with such wonderful toys can afford it and thankfully pass it down to us mere mortal's

Silvera

It's snobbery pure and simple.
People want the latest plate !

The current reg plate system is a boon for the motor trade and the govt !


I reckon I have done well with my recent deal ....
2003 Astra 1.4XE, 29k miles, Full Opel Service History, 1 owner,
only cost me €11,500!

Average price for similar cars currently for sale is €13,500.
My local Opel dealer has one advertised (same model as mine) for €15,500 !! :eek:

....... and mine still has the 'new car smell'

unkel

mike65 wrote:

Spotted an Audi A8 2.8 from 1997 for 11,000 the other week

I'd say you can get a 4.2 V8 quattro for that kinda money

Nuttzz wrote:

Modern technology as standard (e.g. sat nav)

A full satnav system can cost as little as €300. Also, my '96 car has everything a brand new car has and more, like airbags, abs, traction, cruise, aircon, parking sensors, TV and what not

mike65

You know you're not far out there, a 4.2 Quattro was about a grand more with higher mileage. Prices from Sunday Times

Mike.

murphaph

Nuttzz wrote:

Some Pros of a New Car

No dodgy pervious owners

Yeah, those ba$tards leave stains

Guy:Incognito

Dagon wrote:

I don't understand it at all! Imagine, you could have a **** hot 00 or 01 Honda Integra for the price of one of those small new Citroen models. It doesn't make sense to me...

But who buys the 00 or 01 integra in the first place if everyone stops buying new cars?

ds20prefecture

AlanD wrote:

Ok, what car out there has sat nav as standard that the average joe or josephine soap can afford?

OK then, common rail diesel. Or curtain airbags. Or lane departure warning. Or electrical handbrake. Or DSG. Or climate control. Or 5 star NCAP ratings.

While these may be available in cars one or two years old, they are fairly thin on the ground. And they are available in new family cars like VWs, Škodas, Citroëns, etc.

Nuttzz

AlanD wrote:

Ok, what car out there has sat nav as standard that the average joe or josephine soap can afford?

Nissan primera comes with sat nav as standard....

Gerry

ds20prefecture wrote:

OK then, common rail diesel. Or curtain airbags. Or lane departure warning. Or electrical handbrake. Or DSG. Or climate control. Or 5 star NCAP ratings.

While these may be available in cars one or two years old, they are fairly thin on the ground. And they are available in new family cars like VWs, Škodas, Citroëns, etc.

common rail diesel? That was invented years ago, my dads 99 406 hdi has that. Lane departure warning: don't drive if yer tired. Electrical handbrake - read up on it, has proven to be a major pain if it comes on automatically when you don't expect it to. DSG - VAG only.
Really, you can get these features on a car thats a few years old, and get a better car at the same time. I can understand concerns about safety. How about spending some money on an advanced driving course? How about buying a decent sized second hand car instead of a pint sized new one?
It disgusts me how snobbish people are about number plates. Why else would there be offers to let you get a car this year, and another identical one next year? The ****ing car is barely run in.
My car has a 92 reg, how shameful. Surprisingly enough, it has electric windows/mirrors/sunroof, abs brakes, side impact protection, and a bit of style, all for the tidy sum of 2500 euro. Still though, the reg doesn't really cut it. I'm off now to have a cry.

Guy:Incognito

Gerry wrote:

common rail diesel? That was invented years ago, my dads 99 406 hdi has that. Lane departure warning: don't drive if yer tired. Electrical handbrake - read up on it, has proven to be a major pain if it comes on automatically when you don't expect it to. DSG - VAG only.
Really, you can get these features on a car thats a few years old, and get a better car at the same time. I can understand concerns about safety. How about spending some money on an advanced driving course? How about buying a decent sized second hand car instead of a pint sized new one?
It disgusts me how snobbish people are about number plates. Why else would there be offers to let you get a car this year, and another identical one next year? The ****ing car is barely run in.
My car has a 92 reg, how shameful. Surprisingly enough, it has electric windows/mirrors/sunroof, abs brakes, side impact protection, and a bit of style, all for the tidy sum of 2500 euro. Still though, the reg doesn't really cut it. I'm off now to have a cry.

The point is though, if someone didnt buy it new in 1992, you wouldnt have it now.

bazz26

Gerry wrote:

I can understand concerns about safety. How about spending some money on an advanced driving course?

And what about the other bad drivers out there who didn't? All it takes is one of those muppets to plough into you, advanced driving course will not do much good then.

Without new cars being bought nobody would be picking up bargins after a couple of years.

Also alot of us in Ireland don't look after our cars that well, we drive them hard, don't service them that often and most roads are of sub-standard condition. Alot of people who don't have the expertise to spot a genuine bargin, might feel they are buying somebody else's problem.

It is true though that we borrow way too much money to pay for our cars, new or old and often the value of the car becomes less than the amount we still owe the banks.

ds20prefecture

Gerry wrote:

common rail diesel? That was invented years ago, my dads 99 406 hdi has that. Lane departure warning: don't drive if yer tired. Electrical handbrake - read up on it, has proven to be a major pain if it comes on automatically when you don't expect it to. DSG - VAG only.Really, you can get these features on a car thats a few years old,

Yes - I said that. But they are still fairly thin on the ground. And lose the patronising tone - the electrical handbrake and lane departure systems are safety features that will be more common on all new cars. Does DSG being VAG only somehow make it less valuable?

My car has a 92 reg, how shameful. Surprisingly enough, it has electric windows/mirrors/sunroof, abs brakes, side impact protection, and a bit of style, all for the tidy sum of 2500 euro. Still though, the reg doesn't really cut it. I'm off now to have a cry.

My car is a 72 and has none of those things. I feel so ashamed, I'm off to fall on my sword. You want to know what digusts me? The know-it-all attitude of some people who think that they are wise enough to manage all of the risks of buying second hand and throw their eyes to heaven when people who have a more realistic view of the limitations of their knowledge and experience buy new. Not all motorists are car experts. And your '92 was once a new car.

ds20prefecture

Interesting to note that those who only buy second hand feel that snobbery is the main reason for buying new. I have bought three new cars and I can assure you snobbery never entered into it. Ignorance and lack of experience might have, and I doubt I would buy new again now that I know a bit more.

But lets get off the "shrewder-than-thou" high horse, can we? Otherwise you'll have classic car owners asking how you can be so stupid as to buy a car that still depreciates and that you have to pay ludicrous amounts of VRT and road tax on. Is it snobbery, perhaps?

unkel

Some excellent points, much needed to give the thread some balance

bazz26 wrote:

alot of us in Ireland don't look after our cars that well, we drive them hard, don't service them that often and most roads are of sub-standard condition. Alot of people who don't have the expertise to spot a genuine bargin, might feel they are buying somebody else's problem

True and true. I.e. it was a great proposition in the mid to late 90s to buy a brand new Fiat Punto SX with 0% finance for about £8k on the road. Shoestring budget buyers treated these cars like sh!t, the cars can be picked up for peanuts

So, buying a second hand Punto of that vintage, you might buy a car that has been perfectly driven and maintained. You might be able to tell after inspecting it. If so, you've spotted a real bargain

Many people have not found themselves to be in that position. Hence the awful second hand Punto reputation

ds20prefecture wrote:

Interesting to note that those who only buy second hand feel that snobbery is the main reason for buying new. I have bought three new cars and I can assure you snobbery never entered into it

In some cases it would not make financial sense to buy second hand even apart from the car history / maintenance point of view. There are plenty of people out there spending €7k on a nearly 7 year old 1.0 liter VW Polo - madness! Also if you're buying a new family saloon and plan to keep it till it dies, the lowest total cost of ownership would probably be in buying a brand new Skoda Octavia

And fortunately, there isn't an ounce of green-eyed monster in me. Fair play to one and all that buy new cars

Alfasudcrazy

Even though I have a few old classics I still always like to have a new car as my main transport.

Its not a snobbery thing its because I am a car enthusiast and don't see the point in working hard all the time if I can't have the goodies to show for it.

Also the new car I generally buy tends to be a sports version so buying a used one would almost guarantee it had been thrashed at some stage of its life.

I live beside farmers who are millionaires and they have always only driven bangers and old 4WD's. They used horses up to the mid 70's and I am sure when they die their estate will raise a few eyebrows - but that's not my idea of living.
I hear the Cuban's are not into the new car thing that much - so their used car stock is looking a bit shook.

What I don't get is the guy who changes the corrolla every year - that is insane - at least I try to keep my new cars 4-5 years :rolleyes:

Squirrel

Company cars are generally new

S2000

Yea, I think the whole company car thing definitely ups the new car sales. I bought a bran new car once... a 1999 Seat Ibiza. Changed it 2 years later for a 1995 FTO! Dropped 7 years. Bought the S2000 4 years old for about half the new price with 25k on the clock.

Buying used cars is good also for getting a few mods that the last owner did (esp alloy wheels etc) as these are rarely built into the price of a used car

LFCFan

I've had 2 new ('00 Punto & '03 Cordoba) and 2 second hand cars ('91 Kadett & '02 Mondeo) and to be honest I've had more satisfaction from the second hand cars. I don't think I'll ever buy new again, unless I win the lotto and it's a brand new M3 for me

michaelanthony

The Irish enjoy life more and I guess that buying new cars is a manifestation of this.

Ann Elk

With the advent of 100% mortgages it's gonna get worse as well (or better depending on how you view it) - no need to save for a deposit now. Nut in my opinion it's a complete false economy, buy a three year old car every year and avoid the Lion's share of depreciation - a car of that age, NCT shouldn't be an issue.

Gerry

bazz26 wrote:

And what about the other bad drivers out there who didn't? All it takes is one of those muppets to plough into you, advanced driving course will not do much good then.

Yeah, thats fairly defeatist. If everyone keeps thinking like you, we are screwed.

Gerry

ds20prefecture wrote:

Interesting to note that those who only buy second hand feel that snobbery is the main reason for buying new. I have bought three new cars and I can assure you snobbery never entered into it. Ignorance and lack of experience might have, and I doubt I would buy new again now that I know a bit more.

But lets get off the "shrewder-than-thou" high horse, can we? Otherwise you'll have classic car owners asking how you can be so stupid as to buy a car that still depreciates and that you have to pay ludicrous amounts of VRT and road tax on. Is it snobbery, perhaps?

Yes, it was a generalisation, and so not universally true. I think snobbery is a factor in many peoples purchases of new cars though.
shrewder-than-thou? I was merely voicing my opinion on your post about the features that new cars have. I don't pretend to know it all. I just don't see the sense in people continually updating their cars to have this years reg on it, or getting massively in debt when they could go for a 2 or 3 year old car.
If I really, really liked the car, could cover the full cost myself, and if I thought I was going to keep it for many years, I wouldn't have a problem buying a new car.

scargill

i like to buy a new car every 3 or 4 years. Dont think its a snobbery thing - would be changing every year if it was, cos on average I'm driving around in a two year old car !!

Main reasons I do it...

I know bugger all about cars - if there is a problem i get it fixed under warranty (if the buggers dont try to wriggle out of it !!). Friends who drive 10 year old cars (and sneer at me !) tend to know their stuff about cars and tend to have a toolbox in their boot !

Don't have to worry about NCT

Comfort of knowing that service history and mileage is genuine !

I do actually like driving a new car - maybe that is a bit of snobbery - but I work hard and can spend my money on whatever I want !

Silvera

It was interesting to see the different attitude to cars when I was living in New Zealand last year.

There the reg plate doesn't show the year (like our pre-1987 system), and people generally look after their cars much better than we do.

You wouldn't believe the amount of 1980's cars (in perfect condition!) still on the roads there - similar cars here have been scrapped years ago!


Our reg plate system has a lot to do with the amount of people buying new cars - I bet that was the main reason the govt picked the 'year' system back in 1987 !! :mad:

Silvera
(Ex-Panel Beater).


P.S. scargill, whats with the sig pic ?

kdevitt

scargill wrote:

i like to buy a new car every 3 or 4 years. Dont think its a snobbery thing - would be changing every year if it was, cos on average I'm driving around in a two year old car !!

I'd never buy a new car because I feel I get a lot more bang for my buck with a used one, especially when you know what to look out for. But the 3/4 year cycle of buying a new car makes sense as well - I think its the people who feel the need to change every year that I find absurd - people buying the car purely on the basis on the year displayed on its reg plate.

elexes

i liked the smell of my focus when it was new .

i now send it to get a good propper clean once or twice a year .

costs 100 or so but its got the same smell

Squirrel

My family have 1 new car at a time, company cars . But we are also running a '97 Micra, bought 3 years ago, and a '93 MR2, bought 5/6 years ago. Tbh a used car is never quite as perfect as a new car, even with a service sometimes the engine doesn't feel quite as smooth, they make alot more sense economically though IMO

ds20prefecture

Gerry wrote:

I just don't see the sense in people continually updating their cars to have this years reg on it, or getting massively in debt when they could go for a 2 or 3 year old car.

Is this another generalisation? I have never been in debt, massively or otherwise, due to buying new cars. From the sounds of it, the others who have bought new cars haven't either.

Here's a generalisation for you - the Irish begrudge people who earn more than they do, and constantly judge how that difference in disposable income is spent. Lots of people earn more than I and spend their money on something that I wouldn't spend it on (e.g. a BMW) - but I certainly won't stand in judgement of how they spend their money or tut tut and call them "snobs" because they live in a better area, drive a better/newer car or go on more holidays than I.

Of course, nobody drives a better car than mine

Wibbs

Stekelly wrote:

But who buys the 00 or 01 integra in the first place if everyone stops buying new cars?

Japanese people, Gawd bless em...

I think if you're buying new and moving on every 3 yrs, it can make good sense once you get into that cycle. This is especially true for people who know little about cars which would be the majority. You get the new car with warranty etc. You could also look at it another way and think that any problems the new car has are usually ironed out by the time it reaches 3yrs and that would be the time to buy(and new cars can have problems). From a purely financial point of view buying a 2/3yr old car is obviously the better choice, but if we all thought purely with our wallets, we would all drive 5yr old corrollas and the world would be a greyer place for it.

scargill

Silvera wrote:

P.S. scargill, whats with the sig pic ?

Silvera - its prisoner number 33791

Big Balls

ciasto wrote:

never own their own the car and end up with a baloon payment which costs more then the current market value of the given car.

Just to pull you up on a few things. You can get a balloon payment on a normal car loan too ie. you do own the car.

Banks will not give you big balloon payments on cars which are renowned for losing their arse once you drove them off the forecourt. I tried to get one on a Focus ST170 and was told no so I bought a Golf GTI instead at the time. (It was a better decision anyway!!).

Secondly, once the value of your car is MORE than the final payment OR you sell the car way before the 5 year term (for example) is up (more likely) you NEVER pay the balloon payment. It is a way of SAVING money by lowering your repayments once you don't want to keep the car for the full term of the loan.

:rolleyes:

Blitzkrieger

Wibbs wrote:

Japanese people, Gawd bless em...

Japanese people buy new everything. They base their success and self-worth on the amount of new crap they own. It doesn't matter if it's completely freakin useless (like a big Myabotsui Monstronsity urban assault vehicle) as long as everybody can see how big and shiny their new toy is.

Silvera

scargill wrote:

Silvera - its prisoner number 33791

I know WHO it is, just wondering why you have it as a sig pic ?