STT Hand ~ Thoughts and Opinions Requested

Iago

$25 STT on PPP ~ 9 handed table 6 players left

I'm on the button and I've got 5.2K in chips (2nd hand of the game I was dealt AA, raised to 200 preflop, two callers. Flop came down T A T, I check first caller goes all-in, second caller follows suit and I call. They had QTs and KTs respectively and I took the lot...see AA does win sometimes )

Blinds are 30/60, it's folded to me and I limp with Ac4c. SB makes it 300 to go out of his stack of 1,150 and the BB calls, I call and we see a flop.

Flop comes down Jh 7h 4h

SB delays and then pushes all-in for 850, BB folds and I call...

Thoughts?

Hectorjelly

Very bad preflop. Once you get there you should fold the flop, best case scenario you are up against AK AQ with one heart, at worst you are drawing very thin.

careca

I would fold because you are in a good postion and you'll be doubling up a player.

Culchie

This is Ace Rag stuff, auto-fold preflop when he made it 5BB's to have a look at the flop...... surely.

Swap Positions....... If you had KK, and this fellah called you down and hit an Ace on the River, he'd be called a 'fuktard' on these boards.

Lafortezza

Was your thinking that you were up against a bare flush draw? If that's true then I still don't think it's a great call because Villain probably has live cards as outs, to go with his flush draw. And then again he could have a made flush or top pair and your boned.

Ste05

I think this is an automatic fold after being re-raised pre-flop,

If you call (as you did) you need good implied odds of getting paid if you hit your flush,
With this flop, however there's no way you can call IMHO. 9/10 times he'll be way ahead. Only time I can see you as a slight favourite would be where someone will throw in a continuation bet on the flop if they miss it completely hoping you'll lay down a mediocre hand, this flop is nice for bluffing but also very risky (although All-In bluff or continuation bet- probably not!!)

I'd say because your posting this he had something like AK (no h) and you took it down.

Iago

Culchie wrote:

This is Ace Rag stuff, auto-fold preflop when he made it 5BB's to have a look at the flop...... surely.

Swap Positions....... If you had KK, and this fellah called you down and hit an Ace on the River, he'd be called a 'fuktard' on these boards.

I disagree that this is an auto-fold preflop, it might not have been the smartest call in the world, but I think it's merited in these circumstances.

240 out of a stack of 5K to win a potential 1,450 profit (inc. the 850 the shortstack has left if you hit your miracle flop)

If you don't hit you can get away very easily still holding 4.8K and the chip lead with blinds at 30/60.

Anyone strongly disagree or have an opinon on this part of the hand?

Hectorjelly

Your calling 1/5 of the effectiv stack off with a very marginal hand that is almost certainly dominated. Awfull! Your stack size is irrelevant

willis

if your gonna play this hand then why not make a 3bb raise on the button instead of limping in. it gives you a better sense of what your up against and also by limping in your giving the blinds a chance to hit a miracle flop i.e. if flop came Ace rag rag you could easily have run into a ragged 2 pair and will double someone up. Also i think its a mistake calling the raise, the sb is fairly pot committed as he is out of position and generally he needs to have a hand here in order to make this raise.your drawing very thin preflop me thinks,however post flop i think you could be ahead here, as i said hes fairly pot committed and can easily be pushing with ak etc

azzeretti

Depends really on the read you have on these guys. If you have them for being failry loose then I can sorta see your reasoning behind the inital call. Post flop, however, you need to drop this like a hot scuttery one!

I don't think I would get involved with this sort of hand in this sort of position too often but there is a small argument for the call with your stack.

How did you fair in the rest of the game?

Ste05

Iago wrote:

If you don't hit you can get away very easily still holding 4.8K and the chip lead with blinds at 30/60.

Anyone strongly disagree or have an opinon on this part of the hand?

IMHO, pre-flop the call has some slight merit, you could argue that you have a chance to knock a player out without risking your chip lead, you might be able to get more cheap flops on the button (if that's what you want), as the blinds know you'll call a raise. I would need alot more implied odds to call here. It's costing you 300 chips and after that the maximum you can win is another 860, another problem is that in the process of trying to knock him out with a very mediocre hand, there's a chance you will get into trouble and double up this guy and thus make him a much bigger threat to your chances of winning the tournament.

Although, if you're going to call no matter what the flop brings (as seems to be the case here) why didn't you re-raise him all in pre-flop??

What I don't get is your call after the flop?? What did you think he had, and more to the point what did he actually have??

Culchie

Iago wrote:

I disagree that this is an auto-fold preflop, it might not have been the smartest call in the world, but I think it's merited in these circumstances.

240 out of a stack of 5K to win a potential 1,450 profit (inc. the 850 the shortstack has left if you hit your miracle flop)

If you don't hit you can get away very easily still holding 4.8K and the chip lead with blinds at 30/60.

Anyone strongly disagree or have an opinon on this part of the hand?

At the point of decision you are being asked to put in 240 chips, 5BB with a very poor hand. What the other guy has in chips is immaterial, unless he is in the dying throws of desperation, but not here at the 30/60 stage.

You seem to be eyeing up the others guys chips as if you have a right to them, without having the ammunition to obtain them.

Iago

Hectorjelly wrote:

Your calling 1/5 of the effectiv stack off with a very marginal hand that is almost certainly dominated. Awfull! Your stack size is irrelevant

Ah, c'mon on now Hector that's two posts on this thread and you continue to sit on the fence. I'd really appreciate you giving your honest opinion here

I see your point but I would disagree that my stack size is irrelevant, for me that was one of the key factors in calling the raise. That and the fact that I was up against the blinds and that the SB could conceivably have been chancing his arm to pick up the two limpers, 120 chips may not be much but it was 10% of his stack and I've seen far worse play, for worse returns at that level. like people calling 5*BBs raises with muck like A4s and all

Anyway, post flop I should and 9/10 would have laid it down but I honestly discounted him having the made flush or any hand containing A,K,Q or Th. I felt he would have raised 200-300 or checked here looking for one of us to represent a made hand and come over the top. I also discounted 22-77 because of the preflop raise, I think he'd of limped or pushed all-in to isolate with that range.

Having discounted that it left a set or a low flush draw available either of which would have had me in trouble, or Ax where x=K,Q,T and no hearts. My read was AX that completely missed and that meant he only had 3 outs, and therefore I called.

I was right, he turned over AsKd and got no help from turn or river, while he didn't call me a fuktard he did leave with the parting shot of wow, you really are a terrible player to which I responded wow, you really are out of this tournament

I'm still not convinced that my preflop call was as bad as is being made out here, (although he did have me completely dominated) but I know that 95% of the time my post flop call would result in me losing chips. At the same time I trusted my instincts and they were on the money. Even if he had hit a K on the turn or river I would have been reasonably happy that I judged it right.

Maybe it was a little fishy, but we all get moments like that

Iago

Culchie,

I see your point and it's not that I feel I've an automatic right to the chips more that I'm willing to take more chances if I have a significant chip lead. In this case it worked out, in a lot of cases it doesn't...

Culchie

No bother ... you did ask for opinions, so they are going to differ.

Iago

aye, to be honest I didn't expect many to agree with me, with it being a "gut" rather than "math" call.

These are subjective at the best of times and just because it worked doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. I have no doubt that over time a call in that position would be unprofitable