Ordinary Folk Bitter Towards the Better Off?

SpAcEd OuT

Is it me or do regular folk tend to be a bit bitter towards better off folk?
I mean I myself am from a working class family and lately ive started to notice my friends and even some relatives talking about people and actually in a way slagging them about being well off
things like "ah hes a rich ****" and "she probably hasnt done a day of work in her life daddy pays for everything she wants" are quite common

if this was upper class people taking the mikey out of working class people it wouldnt be tolerated yet when a working class person uses an upper class' persons wealth to slag them it is generally accepted and even agreed with. Just the other weekend in the pub I saw two people who were having an argument, towards the end as it got more heated one of the lads walked away to which another lad shouted "yeah go back to your mansion you rich bastard" I didnt really understand how it was a slag yet I hear it all the time.

You always hear people saying all upperclass kids are D4 jocks/airheads who live off daddy and nothing is said of this generalisation yet if people were to say all working class people were scumbags there would be uproar and the person who made the comment would be put in his place.

Why is this? Are ordinary people just jealous and bitter?
Opnions?

Gazza22

Yeah they are just being bitter...you can't judge people by the size of their wallets. They could be just as down to earth as you, the only difference is they are better off in the cash department. It's just jealousy at the end of the day.

If somebody is being snobby with you and treating you badly because your not as well off as them, then that merits treating them just as bad...

Never make assumptions and be prejudicial!

is_that_so

Otherwise known as the begrudgers. Unfortunately it is still a common enough Irish trait. We don't seem to believe that anyone can get ahead with some form of graft . IMO it is changing but with the inequalities and wealth that now exist it's easier to find excuses as to why "I haven't got my share of the pie".

scuba steve

theres alot of jealous ba$tards in this world and the situation isnt getting any better.

Catsmokinpot

i think in general irish people slag anyone off for anything and everything. especially being rich, to be honest if i was rich i wouldn't give my kids everything, id make em work like i do, i've met rich toffs and their not too pleasant. i know you cant judge a book by its cover but you can judge a toff by how high their nose sticks up in the air

weak infant

good post spaced out!

they get a slagging for having a very easy time of it. they don't have to worry about money. they have opportunities as a result that some may never have. i don't see anything wrong with this jealousy and bitterness though, so long as it only expressed appropriately, ie. when their cash is being rubbed in your face.

b*tching about the rich never hurt anyone, whereas calling the 'working class' scumbags does. i've can't imagine a case where a rich person wanted to do something and could not because of discrimination? when has anyone said "ah but he's a rich f***" and it wasn't relevant in someway?

if somebody would tell us how to behave instead of being bitter and jealous when your face is being rubbed in it, great!

Dave!

Yeah, this is quite common indeed.

Example #1: my mother works as like a receptionist in a GP's surgery, and she always comments about how some of the doctors are "mean" with their money. We're not destitute or anything, but we're definitely not rich... Anywho, my mother always comments about some richer people about how mean they are and how they always buy cheap stuff, and look for cheap flights for holidays... and I'm just kinda scratching my head thinking, "well, I'm pretty sure you don't get rich from spending money." So, the key to being rich is to not spend so much! lol.

Example #2: A few of my mates have second houses, in Turkey, or up the mountains, or some place, and I tend to feel a little resentful about that. I guess it's just cos I'm not in a position to do it, yet I'd love to be able to. They also travel alot, another thing I'd love to do, but don't have the money to. It's not in a bitter way, just I guess resentful. Nobody's fault, just natural.

Sauron

well... with some of the people I know.. I have reason to be bitter.. not to wealthy people in general, but just to these people.. I know some real airhead D4 type kids.... sometimes they can be so arrogant... the majority are fine, I don't care how much money someone has.. but just the irritating personality of some people then coupled with the amount of money they can through around at will can be a bit annoying.. but maybe I am just being bitter... I'm not on the poverty line or anything.... keep in mind this is a small majority.. and no justification for slagging someone only because he has a lot of money.. I do know some incredibly cool people who are quite well off..

CrazySka

Im fairly bitter bout that myself now.
It is annoying to have to save for everything and then meet people who can just buy anything they want at a moments notice.

nesf

There's a lot of bull**** about it. People can give you **** just because you have money in your family, not because you rub it in people's faces or are extravagent with it.

I'm from a well off family, ie my parents earn a lot of money. Was I born in one? No, I was born into a "lower-working class" family, in the country. My father just happened to be ambitious, good at his job and worked very hard, and nowadays earns a lot of money. I had to work hard for pocket money when I was a kid etc etc et al. So tbh, I've seen it from both sides. It's easy to be bitter about it but unless you are trying to do something about it, I don't care and I won't respect you. I was as happy when me and my family just had enough money for food as I am now.


Plus, tbh, there are members of my extended family who never "made it" money wise. But they are still happy, it's not an issue for them. There are far more important things in life than money.

Dave!

nesf wrote:

There are far more important things in life than money.

Yeah but unfortunately they cost money, lol.

I wanna have a boat and be able to go sailing somewhere whenever I want
I wanna go to Australia
I wanna have houses in more than one country where I can go if I feel like it
etc etc

Gotta have lots of money to be able to do those things.

I know what you're gettin at, though.

Trouble

I think that its all codswallop! If there is anyone who gets a slagging in ireland it the working class, how many emails have you recieved with pictures of 'chavs' with burberry head to toe, and did you laugh? At least when the upper and middle classes get slagged its not as derogatory as the way the working classes are. Its natural for people who 'covet thier neighbours ' stuff (its wrong you know!!!!) but people do, especially irish people, its what our mothers and their mothers did....

Gazza22

nesf wrote:

I'm from a well off family, ie my parents earn a lot of money. Was I born in one? No, I was born into a "lower-working class" family, in the country. My father just happened to be ambitious, good at his job and worked very hard, and nowadays earns a lot of money. I had to work hard for pocket money when I was a kid etc etc et al

Plus, tbh, there are members of my extended family who never "made it" money wise. But they are still happy, it's not an issue for them. There are far more important things in life than money

Yeah thats near enough my position...my father is the one who made it for my family and thankfully we are now fairly well off. I'm a student, i do work and i don't get a big wad of cash shoved into my hands, i work for my own money.

Like you, i have relatives that would be very average money wise and yeah they have perfect lives. Money is nothing if you don't have happiness, health ect.

jrey1981

As someone who knows what its like to be called "posh" and "rich", sometimes solely because of my accent, or at other times because people imagine my family has a certain standard of living, whereas in reality we sometimes struggle with the bills like everyone else, I can say that sometimes it is jealousy, sometimes it is prejudice.

If they are so judgemental that they can judge someone on one aspect of their character or as soon as they speak, then I am afraid they have a problem.

I have worked on building sites, farms, cleaning cars, and in a supermarket, and usually can get along with anyone. Generally I find if someone is down to earth they will accept you for who you are. I choose my friends quite carefully because of what I have encountered in other people in the past.

There is a lot of jealousy, begrudgement and, particularly status anxiety - also known as "keeping up with the Joneses". There is nothing wrong with wanting social mobility or to improve your life...

However is also a sign of how society is increasingly individualistic, materialistic and consumer-driven. The most common everyday example is how the media and advertisers perpetuate the idea that the lifestyles of celebrities, the rich and famous are the "ideal, have it all, do it all" way of life.

Related to this is the fact that trends, fashion, jealousy, greed, keeping up with the Joneses are the lifeblood of consumerism. By perpetuating an ideal or a fashion, trend or popular product or service, we are conditioned to feel inferior and to want it, and once we have that idea in our head (human nature plays its part as well) and we one day buy it, then the advertisers job is complete.

weak infant

quote "People can give you **** just because you have money in your family"
yeah but what kind of sh*t? they can't win a serious debate/row because they say you have money in your family. you can turn it on them and make a fool of them for pointing it out. you aren't going to be singled out for unfair abuse by any reasonable group of people just for having money.

sure people can say bad things about the rich, so what? if it's not justified in your case, sort them out! if they start spouting nonsense, call them up on it.

Justice for all

Oh ****. I've just been banned.

Gazza22

Good bye to you...

Pigman II

I think that the famous popstar Boner (for once) got it right when he said

"In Ireland, people have an interesting attitude toward success;they look down on it. In America, you look at the mansion on the hill and think, 'One day that will be me.' In Ireland, people say, 'One day, I'm going to get that bastard!'"

Stephen

Trouble wrote:

I think that its all codswallop! If there is anyone who gets a slagging in ireland it the working class, how many emails have you recieved with pictures of 'chavs' with burberry head to toe, and did you laugh? At least when the upper and middle classes get slagged its not as derogatory as the way the working classes are. Its natural for people who 'covet thier neighbours ' stuff (its wrong you know!!!!) but people do, especially irish people, its what our mothers and their mothers did....

What, so every member of the working class is a burberry tracksuit clad knacker? I think not. Skangers/"chavs" are fair game. They earned their reputation.

Sifo

Yeah i notice a lot of resentment towards rich people.. i personally think a lot of rich people don't appreciate what theyve got.. especially children of the rich... waiting for the inheritance!
Working class can be bitter.. thats because the chances of becoming rich nowadays compared to 20 years ago are slim... so unless your parents/grandparents took advantage back then the chances of you becoming rich now are slim... and in this country if you aint rich your struggling..

ADUB?

OP,
Its because Irish people are GREEDY.
We all want what others have, and the rich want more and more. Irish people are never content and if A has something B wants it (wether they need it or not).
Rich get richer and poor struggle. Rich have opportunities the poor dont.
Thats why people slag off rich, if you have money its easier to hold on to it then not having money and trying to aquire it.

We have created a society where the very rich pay f@ck all and the middle and lower class pay the taxes! something doesnt add up there, yet politicians do nothing cos its not in their interest.

shellby

i'm a working class gal - and after a two year break to save i'm going to college in a couple of weeks
meanwhile i have quite well off mates who will be attempting a 1st year in their 2nd or 3rd course and don't need to worry cause mam and dad will always pay the fees if they get bored or drop out and thats what gets me
if ya have money appreciate - if you take it for granded then your as big a waster as someone who just couldn't be bothered getting a job

Kernel32

As someone who knows what its like to be called "posh" and "rich", sometimes solely because of my accent, or at other times because people imagine my family has a certain standard of living, whereas in reality we sometimes struggle with the bills like everyone else, I can say that sometimes it is jealousy, sometimes it is prejudice.

Based on my own experience this is only partially true. People with good incomes do have money worries but its at a whole different level to people who are geniunely poor. If a poor persons electricity bill goes up $30 in a month it can be a serious problem. This is because a poor person is budgeted so tight there is no room to maneuver. Someone with a decent income will have savings to cover the increase and can then adjust their lifestyle slightly to accomdate the increase in the bill. The money worries I have now are so different to what they once were and very different to what my parents are.

I read an article some months back. It was written by a woman in the united states who was commenting on how relationships with friends change as a person gains some level of success more than their peers. She herself had bought a nice house because she was doing well. The attitudes of some her friends really started to change because they hadn't done as well. It got to a point where she wanted to limit contact with them. I know exactly what she was seeing, I have seen it in my own family, never mind friends. Sometimes what you may see as snobbiness in a friend, acquaintance or family member is actually a reaction to your own attitude. Personally I don't have time to deal with too much BS from those around me so I cut it out of my life as needed and concentrate on building a good future for my family.

Paladin

Interesting direction this thread has taken.

At the moment Im just starting a job after finishing college. Find that I want to do stuff in the evenings, maybe head to cinema or pub, go for a game of pool or whatever.
Unfortunately a lot of friends are still in college/unemployed. It puts a limit on how often I can do any of these things with them as they dont have the cash. I worked hard at college so I could get a job and have money to do these things so I am going to do them, unfortunately it means not doing them with my college friends so often.

It kinda shows that even low incomes can put barriers between people without any conscious resentment.

Oh there is a definitely a begrudging attitude towards the well off here. It's spot on that while Americans admire those who become successful and rich, the Irish want to kick their heads in. I hate spoiled rich people as much as anyone else but it does my head in that people assume if you parent(s) has a good job you must be 'dead posh' or a 'rich bitch'.

My dad now has a pretty good job, he's not completely loaded but he makes enough to have a comfortable enough lifestyle which makes some of my mates jealous. They assume he comes from a rich family and was handed everything on a plate when nothing could be further from the truth. He comes from a really poor family, immigrants and grew up on a council estate. He has 7 brothers and sisters and left school at 16 to support them when his dad died. He fecked up his exams and had about 4 goes at repeating them, all while working various jobs to support himself and the family. He married my mum while he was studying to be an accountant and when I was born we were really, really poor. We lived in a tiny flat with no car and I remember eating beans on toast all the time. When my dad finally qualified, we were a bit better off but still quite poor. All my clothes were second hand from other peoples kids and there were always arguments about the bills etc.

When I was 11 he got an offer of a well paid job which he took, but it meant moving away from England, where we lived which was hard on everyone. We were a lot better off, materially and had a nice house and thats when my new school friends who came over started to behave differently, when they saw we had a nice house, nice TV, computer etc. They were really jealous and honestly did treat me differently than they did before. Most people assume I'm working class when they meet me, thats because I feel I AM. My grandparents were all working class, my parents did not grow up at all well off. They went to college but are by no means 'intellectuals' like the parents of a lot of my friends at college. Sure my dad has a well paid job but we rarely go out for fancy meals etc and haven't been on holiday in 3 years cos we can't afford it. When we did go we went to Europe on easyjet, not to the Bahamas like people assumed.

I wish people would be less feckin judgemental and jealous of other people. Its really none of your business. A lot of people who may appear rich really aren't that well off and even if they are, it doesn't mean they have a great, easy life. The worst thing is the begrudging attitude, there's just no need for it. I honestly believe ANYONE can become rich if they work at it, my dad and some of my aunts/uncles are proof of this.

Mezcita

Very interesting thread. You should take a look at a book called "Rich Dad Poor Dad" by a guy called Robert T. Kiyosaki. Its a fairly easy read but well worth checking out. ,

seamus

It's an interesting phenomenon in Ireland. As Des Bishop pointed out, us Irish love hacking away at the institutions - we love to have something that we can piss and moan about. Wealthier people are just one of these things.

However, there is a lot to be said about the root causes of the "snobby b*stard" attitude of Ireland recently. We are overrun with what could be classed as nouveau riche. People of the 40s, 50s and 60s grew up in relatively poor families. The middle class had jobs, and homes, but they didn't have that much spare cash, they had enough to get by. Now the children of those middle class (in their 40s-60s now) have good jobs, good homes, and plenty of disposable cash. This has given rise to their children having a holier-than-thou attitude. They didn't know what it was like when their parents didn't have the money to buy them a car for their birthday, or fund them €200 to go on the piss on a Saturday night. It's a very real and prevalent attitude in this country now, and I think it's what people mainly give out about - the roysh, yesh D4 stereotype that has taken so bashing recently isn't an invention.

That's not to say they're all like that. Like most people here, I can say that my parents grew up without much money and ended up now close to retirement and fairly wealthy, having given me a better funded headstart than they would have. But that's not what people are complaining about. It's the next level up. The perma-funded students, the free cars and jobs from Daddy's company, that kind of thing. The super rich are lovely people, free with their money and no airs and graces about themselves. It's those who strive to be super rich who are detested.

Dyr

Des Bishop can go and ask the back of my b****x, if he made his living pointing out the amusing foibles of, say..a muslim country he'd be hanging from a lampost in d'olier street... fecking chancer.


Its true though, that the biggest factor in deciding what you'll "achieve" in irish society is your mammy and daddy, hopefully some day that wont be the case but it seems to be getting worse.

nesf

seamus wrote:

It's the next level up. The perma-funded students, the free cars and jobs from Daddy's company, that kind of thing.

That's still an unfair generalisation mate

I'd argue that it all depends on whether those people grew up like that or not. The attitudes of people who used to not have money are quite different to those who grew up never lacking it.

You tend to appreciate the vagaries of fate more or something.

simu

Bambi wrote:

Its true though, that the biggest factor in deciding what you'll "achieve" in irish society is your mammy and daddy, hopefully some day that wont be the case but it seems to be getting worse.

Hello? Have you even read the thread? There's a fair few stories on here about people who rose from a poor background to a comfortable status. It is quite possible to do so.

adonis

Bambi

Des Bishop can go and ask the back of my b****x, if he made his living pointing out the amusing foibles of, say..a muslim country he'd be hanging from a lampost in d'olier street... fecking chancer.

:well arent we lucky we dont live in a muslim country? and we have the right to "freedom" of speech?

saying that i like the rich! they are far more eccentric than us ( i refer to me) middle class folk .... "Taboggan!!"

Dyr

yeah i've read the thread, i'd probably qualify as someone who "rose" from a poor background to do okay relatively speaking so i know what i'm on about. To this day i dont have much of a clue about taxes, finance, insurance etc because i never saw anyone dealing with that stuff as a kid. Simple things people from other backgrounds might take for granted

But then you get people who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps but still work under manager's and director's who only got to that position because daddy sent them to the right boarding school and college, they've very little natural talent but they got the head start that keeps them over those who had to climb up from much lower down the ladder.