Government donates 1 million to Hurricane Disaster

Brendan552004 · 05-09-2005 3:51pm #1

The Irish Government sending 1 million of our money to the richest country in the world, I think is a bit out of order. Why not give the money instead to the Simon Community, Rape Crisis Centre, even the Abbey Theatre. Lets take care of our own first.

Firewalkwithme · 05-09-2005 3:55pm

Couldn't agree more.

Considering how much the U.S. spends on warfare and yet it can't or won't provide healthcare to it's poorest citizens it's an ironic situation which they now find themselves in.

ballooba · 05-09-2005 3:58pm

1 million is hardly going to dent our resources. What is that 25c per person?

It's a token gesture that I'm sure will be appreciated by a country that has done a lot for us.

KTRIC · 05-09-2005 4:01pm

F*ck them, why should we give them money :mad: . It doesn't matter if its a token gesture. That wouldn't make a dent in the $25bn they will need to rebuild New Orleans.

Firewalkwithme · 05-09-2005 4:01pm

ballooba wrote:

1 million is hardly going to dent our resources. What is that 25c per person?

It's a token gesture that I'm sure will be appreciated by a country that has done a lot for us.

Well it would pay for a few hospital beds for a start wouldn't it?

Brendan552004 · 05-09-2005 4:14pm

I suppose Bertie think's he can afford it. He is making an additional 1 million a week on the additional VAT he is now creaming off us because of the rise in petrol prices. I suppose he would just like to thank George for the increase in our VAT revenue.

What about the US Federal Hurricane Fund, 14 Billion. George has dipped his little fingers into the fund to finance his father and his own personal vendetta in the Middle East. Weapons of mass destruction, the only weapon of mass destruction is George himself.

kippy · 05-09-2005 4:20pm

ffs,
Its a one million donation-token gesture but in all fairness the US spend a hell of a lot of money on foreign aid every year- Whether or not they can afford to sort the issue out themselves is not the issue.
If the same thing happened in ireland-ie the whole country destroyed(the area effected is the size of the UK) we'd be grateful for any extra help-no matter how strong the celtic tiger.
No need to let this get into a debate about how the US spend their money-its a charitable donation and hopefully just the knowledge that people all around the world care will help these people in their time of need.
Remember there are real people involved in all of this-sometime this is forgotten amoung all the blame.

StonedParadoX · 05-09-2005 4:21pm

Brendan552004 wrote:

I suppose Bertie think's he can afford it. He is making an additional 1 million a week on the additional VAT he is now creaming off us because of the rise in petrol prices. I suppose he would just like to thank George for the increase in our VAT revenue.

What about the US Federal Hurricane Fund, 14 Billion. George has dipped his little fingers into the fund to finance his father and his own personal vendetta in the Middle East. Weapons of mass destruction, the only weapon of mass destruction is George himself.

well said my Friend

Brendan552004 · 05-09-2005 4:34pm

There are real homeless people on the streets of our cities every night, we should let them know how we feel. Charity begins at home.

Hobbes · 05-09-2005 4:36pm

Ireland has donated 1/3 of total donations to date to the ARC.

http://www.redcross.org/pressrelease/0,1077,0_314_4509,00.html

I can't find the link but $100 goes a hell of a long way then normal for ARC. They get to buy everything at a fraction of the cost.

Brendan552004 · 05-09-2005 4:43pm

Hobbes, decimal point in the wrong place.

Funds Received to Date – The Red Cross estimates that, as of Sept. 4, 2005, it has received $352 million in gifts and pledges for the hurricane relief effort.

Dinner · 05-09-2005 4:44pm

Despatch wrote:

Couldn't agree more.

Considering how much the U.S. spends on warfare and yet it can't or won't provide healthcare to it's poorest citizens it's an ironic situation which they now find themselves in.

Thats a nice ( :rolleyes: ) attitude to have. Just because you dont like the government you are happy to leave the people stuck without reasonable food and water.

This money is not going to fund the war. Its going to help some of the thousands without a house, food or water. Get over your predjudices and realise that its humans that money will help.

kippy · 05-09-2005 4:47pm

There are real homeless people on the streets of our cities every night, we should let them know how we feel. Charity begins at home.

Was this the same line you used during the tsunami and other disasters?
Yeah,
I think we all know that and I for one agree with you-I do my bit for the needy in Ireland-just as I like to see our government doing its bit on our behalf for the needy in the world.
We can get into arguments about how to spend money better in times of need however we'd all need to ask our selves how many non neccessary items have we bought over the last few years when others go without.......

Which is not the topic raised here.

Firewalkwithme · 05-09-2005 4:49pm

Arabel wrote:

Thats a nice ( :rolleyes: ) attitude to have. Just because you dont like the government you are happy to leave the people stuck without reasonable food and water.

This money is not going to fund the war. Its going to help some of the thousands without a house, food or water. Get over your predjudices and realise that its humans that money will help.

My point is that they always seem to find the money for their military while failing to take proper care of their civilians. Why should it be left to us to take care of their poor when they are too occupied with fighting phoney wars abroad? If it takes a tradgedy like this to wake the American public up to what their government should be doing for them then perhaps some good will come of this.

Dinner · 05-09-2005 4:54pm

Despatch wrote:

Why should it be left to us to take care of their poor when they are too occupied with fighting phoney wars abroad?

Why? Because thousands of people have had their house and all their possesions destroyed. You are punishing the poor for the acts of thier government.

From reading some of these posts it just seems that some people think "f*ck 'em. Their government cant help them enough why should we?"

Is that your attitude?

kippy · 05-09-2005 4:56pm

Some good may come of this tragedy as you pointed out.
BUT RIGHT NOW-people are dying and homeless on a massive scale.
We cannot not help them because we do not like their government as mentioned above by another poster.

Brendan552004 · 05-09-2005 4:58pm

Tsunami was different, Africa too. They are not wealthy Governments, we were right to help and I hope we will continue to do so. US is different. How did such a terrible hurricane occur. Was it Global warming, who would not sign the Kyoto agreement, who was at a republican fund raising dinner the day after the hurricane?

Hobbes · 05-09-2005 5:05pm

Brendan552004 wrote:

Hobbes, decimal point in the wrong place.

ooops

Vokes · 05-09-2005 5:10pm

Brendan552004 wrote:

Tsunami was different, Africa too. They are not wealthy Governments, we were right to help and I hope we will continue to do so. US is different. How did such a terrible hurricane occur. Was it Global warming, who would not sign the Kyoto agreement, who was at a republican fund raising dinner the day after the hurricane?

Global warming has been happening for years, well before Kyoto, and besides it hasn't been proved that global warming is causing more hurricane storms.

You're just grasping for reasons to dislike the US government and not help the "people" of New Orleans. They're 2 different issues altogether.

Firewalkwithme · 05-09-2005 5:40pm

Arabel wrote:

Why? Because thousands of people have had their house and all their possesions destroyed. You are punishing the poor for the acts of thier government.

From reading some of these posts it just seems that some people think "f*ck 'em. Their government cant help them enough why should we?"

Is that your attitude?

I'm not punishing the poor - their government are doing a fine job of that already.

I'm not saying 'f*uck em' - just that a dose of the realities that millions, possibly billions of people around the world have to face every day will do them no harm in the long run. I would hope that America may have a more humanitarian approach worldwide as a result of this instead of just looking out for No. 1 all the time.

It is also worth noting that both Cuba and Venezuela have offered aid but have so far had their offers declined for political reasons. I think this is a great shame as it really could have been an oppertunity for the U.S. to engage with these nations and perhaps develop better relationships with them.

kippy · 05-09-2005 6:46pm

Politics.......
People are dying ffs......
Shouldnt we worry about helping them
Put yourself in their situation for a minute and forget about their colour or nationality......or their government.......
Bottom line-as a tax paying Irish Citizen I have no issues with this donation and would hope that the government offer more if needs be-I sure hope that other countries would look kindly on us should a similiar situation occur here-seing as we are "Rich" these days.

Firewalkwithme · 05-09-2005 6:59pm

kippy wrote:

Politics.......
People are dying ffs......
Shouldnt we worry about helping them
Put yourself in their situation for a minute and forget about their colour or nationality......or their government.......
Bottom line-as a tax paying Irish Citizen I have no issues with this donation and would hope that the government offer more if needs be-I sure hope that other countries would look kindly on us should a similiar situation occur here-seing as we are "Rich" these days.

We might be 'rich' per capita we we are not a super-rich nation such as the U.S. is in term of the resourses and reserves available to us.

Their own foolish pride has so far seen them stall on asking for help so as not to appear weak to the world and their own population. It has gone as far as picking and choosing who they want to accept help from. Clearly they feel it would be beneath themselves to accept an offer of aid from Cuba or Venezuela.

I too would have no problem with the Irish governments donation were it not for the fact that other countries offers of aid have been thrown back in their faces.

kippy · 05-09-2005 7:03pm

ffs,
Despatch-what the f**k are you thinking??
Your obviously blinded by politics.

Firewalkwithme · 05-09-2005 7:14pm

kippy wrote:

ffs,
Despatch-what the f**k are you thinking??
Your obviously blinded by politics.

I'm not blinded - I just understand how these things work through careful observation. You appear to be utterly blind to the role that politics has had to play at all levels of this crisis, from the diversion of money away from improving the levees to the wrangling that we then saw between the local and federal governments over who was to blame for the lacklustre relief effort. Unfortunately at times like this, politicians can be a very effective hinderance to getting done what is really needed on the ground. I's like to ask you Kippy, what is your opinion of the U.S. governments position of turning down aid from the two countries I mentioned earlier?

kippy · 05-09-2005 7:24pm

I am blinded by little and I do see your points about the diversion on funds for levee defences and the seemingly endless blame game that is going on right now. I never once refuted any of these points.......
I also have issue with the US rejecting funding from these two nations simply on political basis however-
Do you think that no one should offer help and the US should be made deal with this on their own?
Again-put yourself in the position of a normal person in New Orleans at the moment-no home-not likely to have a home for a very long time and a very unsure future. Wouldn't you like to think you had the support of other countries in your time of need even if the funding was miniscule....
I do not for one second believe that the US need any funding in this matter however right now we need to show solidarity with the US PEOPLE.
See past the politics-that is what I am asking you to do.
It is only one million of our money.

Firewalkwithme · 05-09-2005 7:40pm

kippy wrote:

I am blinded by little and I do see your points about the diversion on funds for levee defences and the seemingly endless blame game that is going on right now. I never once refuted any of these points.......
I also have issue with the US rejecting funding from these two nations simply on political basis however-
Do you think that no one should offer help and the US should be made deal with this on their own?
Again-put yourself in the position of a normal person in New Orleans at the moment-no home-not likely to have a home for a very long time and a very unsure future. Wouldn't you like to think you had the support of other countries in your time of need even if the funding was miniscule....
I do not for one second believe that the US need any funding in this matter however right now we need to show solidarity with the US PEOPLE.
See past the politics-that is what I am asking you to do.
It is only one million of our money.

ok, it's good to see we agree on some points at least. I have to say that your above post is laden with contradictions though. For example, if you don't think the U.S. needs any money then why sent it? Just to appear good? Should we just offer it, safe in the knowledge that it will be turned down with a polite thank you in the hopes that increases our standing with the U.S.? I don't think that no-one should offer help - I think that no offer of help should be refused. If we are happy to donate money while other funds and resourses are being refused on the basis of political bias then aren't we endorsing the U.S. policy of refusing aid? Aid that as you quite rightly point out, is intended to help ordinary people in horrible circumstances. We should offer aid provided the U.S. is willing to accept help from all those that wish to help. They may call Cuba and Venezuela's bluff by doing just that! I can't help but feel that it is as hypocritical of us as a nation to provide this aid to the U.S. when they are refusing the same from others. If we disapprove of that policy then a healthy open debate about the subject may have the affect of seeing more help reaching those who need it. It's not me who's being blinded by politics, the Americans can't see the wood for the trees.

kippy · 05-09-2005 7:46pm

I cant be bothered wasting any more of my time arguing a point that we have no influence on with some one who makes sweeping generalisations based on nationality.
We gave the money-whether you like it or not.
I hope you are never in the position that REAL PEOPLE WITH REAL ISSUES are currently in in the US.
By the way-the slant of your argument has changed since your first point-all in trying to blame governments, politics etc etc

is_that_so · 05-09-2005 7:49pm

"It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done" - Charles Dickens

Pretty much sums it up for me.

Firewalkwithme · 05-09-2005 7:50pm

kippy wrote:

I cant be bothered wasting any more of my time arguing a point that we have no influence on.

TRANSLATION = You can't be bothered continuing to debate this subject because you either can't think of anything else to say or you know that you're on the losing end of an argument.

Firewalkwithme · 05-09-2005 7:52pm

kippy wrote:

By the way-the slant of your argument has changed since your first point-all in trying to blame governments, politics etc etc

No it hasn't, I'm just responding to your comments.

kippy · 05-09-2005 7:53pm

Where is the argument?
The money is already gone and theres nothing you can do about it(thankfully)
I have better things to do with my time than "argue" with a politically obsessed anti US government and inhumane person.
Regards,
Kippy

Firewalkwithme · 05-09-2005 7:59pm

kippy wrote:

Where is the argument?
The money is already gone and theres nothing you can do about it(thankfully)
I have better things to do with my time than "argue" with a politically obsessed anti US government and inhumane person.
Regards,
Kippy

It would help if you knew how to construct an argument without contradicting yourself and throwing a hissy fit when things aren't going your way. To say that I am inhumane is quite ridiculous when I have already stated that I believe that all offers of asistance should have been gratefully received on behalf of those suffering. If you think politics doesn't come into this then you are deluding yourself.

Hobbes · 05-09-2005 8:01pm

I Don't see the big deal to be honest. Its a token gesture, and the US know if it needed more support it would get it. Its not upsetting taxpayers considering its only 25c per person.

Ireland as part of the EU also opened up its oil reserves.

kippy · 05-09-2005 8:03pm

I dont think I am throwing a hissy fit.
I am basicilly admitting that I wont win an "argument" about a subject such as this with a person of your views.

Firewalkwithme · 05-09-2005 8:10pm

kippy wrote:

I dont think I am throwing a hissy fit.
I am basicilly admitting that I wont win an "argument" about a subject such as this with a person of your views.

The funny thing about this is that through contradicting yourself it has become clear that our positions are really not far apart. We both want to see the people who need help receive the help that they need because that is what is really important. Where the aid comes from shouldn't be an issue but unfortunately for those caught up the whole terrible mess, it has become one.

walshb · 07-09-2005 6:05am

Personally, I wouldn't begrudge America the money seeing as it has pumped millions of dollars our way over the years and it has set up many buisiness's as well. Plus we have a very strong relationship with the US and always will, however money given to the US is so so silly really. They have more damn money than sense to be honest. Resources and manpower fair enough, but cash is not the problem in the US. I was disgusted by GOAL'S John O'Shea and his berating of the government for giving it. Fair enough, he may not agree...but isn't he meant to be a genuine merciful person, yet he's begrudging this offer of cash to those in need. Then he's on about giving more to the corrupt regimes in Africa. Something tells me that he is more concerned about his own charity missing out on another windfall......

monument · 07-09-2005 4:59pm

Brendan552004 wrote:

The Irish Government sending 1 million of our money to the richest country in the world,

:rolleyes:

Yes, why are we sending money to Luxembourg?

Ladypawpaw · 08-09-2005 5:05am

Brendan552004 wrote:

Tsunami was different, Africa too. They are not wealthy Governments, we were right to help and I hope we will continue to do so. US is different.

How is it different? Indonesia and the vast majority of african countries are not wealthy BECAUSE they spend millions upon millions on weapons and don't bother with looking after their poor, infrastructure etc.

If you have such a begrudging attitude at least apply it to all nations equally.

Brendan552004 wrote:

How did such a terrible hurricane occur. Was it Global warming, who would not sign the Kyoto agreement, who was at a republican fund raising dinner the day after the hurricane?

Shocking news - Hurricanes happened long before global warming.

walshb · 08-09-2005 6:11am

Ladypawpaw, I agree totally. At least money donated to the US govt has a damn better chance of reaching those in need than money squandered to Africa and Asia. Since the Tsunami, all the Irish aid agencies have been doing is thanking the Irish for their generosity, yet they haven't actually told us just how much they all received and where the money has gone and what it was spent on. The lack of traceability and accountability is worrying to be quite honest. If the truth be known, I'd say a lot of money went into the pockets of people not even affected by Tsunami in Asia and Famine in Africa. Where ever there is vast amounts of cash being given for relief, there will be people robbing and defrauding.....

Ladypawpaw · 09-09-2005 4:39am

walshb wrote:

Ladypawpaw, I agree totally. At least money donated to the US govt has a damn better chance of reaching those in need than money squandered to Africa and Asia.

Actually, the Irish government did not donate a single penny to the US govt. They donated to the Red Cross and other organisations, all of which are accountable.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0905/katrinaaid.html

walshb wrote:

Since the Tsunami, all the Irish aid agencies have been doing is thanking the Irish for their generosity, yet they haven't actually told us just how much they all received and where the money has gone and what it was spent on. The lack of traceability and accountability is worrying to be quite honest. If the truth be known, I'd say a lot of money went into the pockets of people not even affected by Tsunami in Asia and Famine in Africa..

All the decent Irish charities publish their accounts.

walshb wrote:

Where ever there is vast amounts of cash being given for relief, there will be people robbing and defrauding.....

Yes indeed. There have been loads of dodgy donation websites springing up since Katrina.

walshb · 09-09-2005 6:06am

Ladypaw, can you name any of these decent Irish charities and just because they publish accounts, which they are obliged to do by law, does this automatically make them decent???.....The fact of the matter is that Irish money being given to these charities to be used in India and Africa is not so easy to trace

walshb · 12-09-2005 3:54pm

Despatch wrote:

I'm not punishing the poor - their government are doing a fine job of that already.

I'm not saying 'f*uck em' - just that a dose of the realities that millions, possibly billions of people around the world have to face every day will do them no harm in the long run. I would hope that America may have a more humanitarian approach worldwide as a result of this instead of just looking out for No. 1 all the time.

Buddy, the States have donated more money to Africa and Asia and any other poor region in the world than any other country. They have donated Billions of dollars to poor countries and what thanks do they get.....Then the money is squandered and robbed and used to buy weapons. These poor countries of the world will always remain poor, because people are making millions on the backs of the poor. It's terrible, but it is reality. So all this charity we hear of, I'd be ver wary. As far as I'm concerned, where there are poor people, there will be plenty of people ready to make a quick Buck, masquerading as saviours of the poor. That goes to all these so called Africa charities set up in the Western world...

Mick86 · 17-09-2005 3:12am

Arabel wrote:

From reading some of these posts it just seems that some people think "f*ck 'em. Their government cant help them enough why should we?"

Is that your attitude?

No. Their government CAN help them. There are lots of deserving people suffering in the world and none of them are in the US. The country is stinking rich and absolutely does NOT need our help.

Mick86 · 17-09-2005 3:16am

SofaKing wrote:

Global warming has been happening for years, well before Kyoto, and besides it hasn't been proved that global warming is causing more hurricane storms.

Kyoto has nothing to do with Katrina. Huricanes have been striking that area since time began. But hurricanes are created by sea temperature and as the sea gets hotter from global warming hurricanes will become more frequent and more violent.

I prefer the Judgement of Allah theory myself.

Cork · 17-09-2005 10:14am

We gave money to aid a relief effort. This country has been doing that for years.

Why bemoan that?

US Foriegn Direct Investment has given many in this country jobs.

The government gave the money to the Red Cross to aid the relief effort.

Cronus333 · 17-09-2005 10:55am

Despatch wrote:

Well it would pay for a few hospital beds for a start wouldn't it?

We need to have hospital beds here!! Not on another continent!!

oscarBravo · 17-09-2005 11:09am

Cronus333 wrote:

We need to have hospital beds here!! Not on another continent!!

Aren't hospital beds needed both here and there?

Cork · 17-09-2005 11:28am

Billions of euros are being spent on the health system.

Never has there been more money being spent on health.

Spending more money on health does not get rid of bed blockers or make the system more efficent. It does make people to cop on that eating in burger joints is bad for them or drinking like fish is not grat for ther health.

It is not about putting prefabs outside our hospitals.

This thread is about giving € 1 million to aid the relief effort in New Orleans.

Should Bertie not have comitted 0.7% by 2012?

At what point, should we then to give aid to others?

walshb · 25-09-2005 12:47pm

I don't say that Bertie should not have committed to the .7%, but taxpayers in Ireland have to realise that the target date can never really be set in stone. Things change, economies change. Who's to say that in 2-3 yrs, Ireland could be in dire straits as far as our economy is concerned. Then the target date would be unrealistic.....we as a country give a hell of a lot of money to foreign countries to try help out, yet there are still the so called 'do gooders' are still calling for more and more....Why I ask??...is it really to help alleviate poverty or are they merely on their pedestals trying to make a name for themselves.............

Government donates 1 million to Hurricane Disaster

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