BT telling lies on doorsteps...

shamalive

I live in a village a few miles outside Cork City.

The local exchange is NOT DSL enabled, and there's not even a trigger program yet, so there's not really huge demand in the area.

Last week 2 BT sales guys knock on my door at 6.30.
They tell me the exchange has just gone live and ask me if I'd like
to sign up for their BB and phone services.
I tell them that I was just speaking with Eircom reps a few days before and
they informed me that it would NOT be live anytime this year.
The guy responds by saying that they have their own equipment in the exchange.
To be honest, I'd always thought that BT just resell Eircom bandwidth (unlike Smart), and I pulled him on this.
He, of course, insisted that they have their own equipment.
So I said, do a line test there, if it passes, I'll sign up.
Out comes his mobile, makes a call, and says the line has passed.

This guy didnt really have a clue what he was talking about,
so I said give me something in writing saying the line has passed.
Which he refused, saying it was a TODAY ONLY offer,

at which point I told him to get the **** off my property.

Anyone experienced this before,
I'm presuming he just wanted my details so that he could switch my land
line to BT without my permission and get his sales commission.

I should have gotten more details from him and made a formal complaint to Comreg (not that they'd take any notice).

kippy

First thing I would do in that instance is ask for some formal ID as it looks like two chancers trying their luck who may not have been from BT at all.
Then again you never know.
Kippy

shamalive

kippy wrote:

First thing I would do in that instance is ask for some formal ID as it looks like two chancers trying their luck who may not have been from BT at all.
Then again you never know.
Kippy

They were from BT alright,
had all the documentation and ID.

Drapper

kippy wrote:

First thing I would do in that instance is ask for some formal ID as it looks like two chancers trying their luck who may not have been from BT at all.
Then again you never know.
Kippy

I fooked 2 of my doorstep recently too in Dublin, see if they had done any sort of research they would have seen that I had no telephone line! fooked it out when I got NTL BB

and your right none had ID

Sponge Bob

BT have been known to send sales muppets door to door , you were quite right not to sign anything without prior written confirmation that your line had passed for BB and that they were going to supply it to you

Blaster99

I'm just curious, what bad thing do you think could happen if you sign up for broadband but they can't deliver the product? That contract isn't valid. So if the salesguy/muppet said you can get it, why not give it a shot? They have LLU equipment in some exchanges.

OFDM

Blaster99 wrote:

I'm just curious, what bad thing do you think could happen if you sign up for broadband but they can't deliver the product? That contract isn't valid. So if the salesguy/muppet said you can get it, why not give it a shot? They have LLU equipment in some exchanges.

Because your phone line is still switched over. Why go through the hassle of getting your line back, at your own cost? Madness.

kaizersoze

Blaster99 wrote:

I'm just curious, what bad thing do you think could happen if you sign up for broadband but they can't deliver the product? That contract isn't valid. So if the salesguy/muppet said you can get it, why not give it a shot? They have LLU equipment in some exchanges.

From what I've read on boards and elsewhere, BT only offer LLU BB to business customers. I have heard of residential customers signing up for business packages with BT but they don't market them to residential customers.
Go HERE to their business line checker and check your number.

dahamsta

I'd suggest ringing BT and asking for their door-to-door sales manager, or suchlike. If they don't know what that is, ask for the customer service manager (if they won't put you through, PM me and I'll give you a DDI). Explain the situation and ask if BB is available in your area or not. If it is, the job is OXO. If not, tell them about this thread, and that if you see any follow-up complaints along the same lines you'll be complaining in writing to consumer affairs, ComReg, the Minister, the media, etc, and asking other complainants to do the same. And if it happens, do it.

Complain, complain, complain. Irish people have this rather sad fear of complaining, they seem to believe it makes them a wuss or a whiner for some reason. But it's the only way to get things done.

adam

Blaster99

I know it's unlikely that the exchange was LLU enabled and even more unlikely that a door rep would sell that product, but you never know. If I lived in broadband darkness, I would take my chances. You don't need to sign up for the telephony and even if you do, you can just change back. Changing CPS is a nobrainer.

dahamsta

Blaster99 wrote:

Changing CPS is a nobrainer.

Not to BT though. I wouldn't wish that billing nightmare on anyone.

adam

paulm17781

dahamsta wrote:

Not to BT though. I wouldn't wish that billing nightmare on anyone.

adam

To change back you just ring Eircom and tell them you want to move back.

shamalive

As mentioned above, there's no way I'd move to BT, (their billing is a nightmare) unless they CAN offer me BB.
Something they clearly cannot do.
TODAY ONLY OFFER my ass.

Going down the wireless road.
Tis the only option.

dahamsta

paulm17781 wrote:

To change back you just ring Eircom and tell them you want to move back.

Eircom over BT? You're kidding, right?

I'm looking at the same option as shamalive, with Blueface for voice. I've had enough of Eircom's copper and the conmen that use it.

adam

paulm17781

dahamsta wrote:

Eircom over BT? You're kidding, right?

I'm looking at the same option as shamalive, with Blueface for voice. I've had enough of Eircom's copper and the conmen that use it.

adam

No, I am saying it is that easy to move back to Eircom if you want to.

Go with Blueface, they're great. If you want to port your number go back to Eircom first (That's how I know how easy it is).

Blaster99

Sorry to take this off-topic (if it's even still on-topic), but are you saying you can port your existing landline number to a Blueface number? If so, why can't Eircom port numbers to Smart's customers?

dahamsta

I was aware of that Paul. I know far more about Eircom than can be good for my mental health. You've presented me with an opportunity to ask a question that I keep forgeting to ask though: Do you have to pay line rental if you port your number to Blueface? How about 076?

EDIT: Yes you can Blaster99*, and Eircom /can/ port your number over to Smart, however the current setup requires a loss of the line for 2-3(?) weeks. That's why Smart has provided an alternative (new number). Presumably Blueface suffer from the same issue.

adam

* Or you can use one of the new non-geographic 076 numbers.

steve-o

dahamsta wrote:

Eircom /can/ port your number over to Smart

I don't think that is possible at all (hence the ongoing saga). AFAIK, Eircom claim that, in their database, the management of the physical phone line is inextricably tied to the exchange. So for a phone number to exist in The Land of Eircom, it must be associated to both a line and an exchange.

With LLU, your calls need to be routed to the LLU operator's network. If I've understood it right, Eircom claim they would need to remove your number from their exchange in their deep dark database, but that would also cause you to lose line service (cos even with LLU they still own and maintain the line from the physical exchange building to your front door).

With CPS there's no problem, your calls are still going though Eircom's exchange equipment. For VOIP, there's no phone line, so no problem.

An upgrade to the database (to separate line and exchange) would fix it, but that's hardly in Eircom's interest, and they claim it would cost bazillions to do.

And yes, this is way off-topic.

dahamsta

I could be wrong, but I was pretty sure that some of Smart's earlier customers switched over to LLU using their existing numbers, despite the hassle, and that the new number requirement originally came about as an /option/ offered by Smart to avoid the downtime issue.

adam

paulm17781

I don't know about Smart or their situtation. Blueface however do allow you to port your Eircom number accross.

Blueface give you an 01 number and an 076 number, I currently have both and am awaiting my Eircom number ported. Eircom make it difficult (Yes, Eircom blueface have been extremely helpful). To be able to receive calls with Blueface there is a minimum 10 Euro monthly subscription which include 5 hours of free calls. All their packages are great. http://www.blueface.ie

You need to have your Eircom line activated until the port is complete then you can cancel it. You do not have to pay extra for the number port.

Please note, I do not work for Blueface, I am just an extremely satisfied customer.

Sponge Bob

can blueface only port dublin 01 numbers ....as they have no presence or network elsewhere in Ireland ?

GarfieldConnoll

Sponge Bob wrote:

can blueface only port dublin 01 numbers ....as they have no presence or network elsewhere in Ireland ?

As I understand it, porting is based around where the customer is/ will be, rather than where a company has switching infrastructure.

Garfield.

GarfieldConnoll

dahamsta wrote:

I could be wrong, but I was pretty sure that some of Smart's earlier customers switched over to LLU using their existing numbers, despite the hassle, and that the new number requirement originally came about as an /option/ offered by Smart to avoid the downtime issue.

adam

Adam,

All Smart broadband customers are on new numbers. Downtime is based around the requirement to have a standard PSTN line in place before an unbundling request will be accepted. So no DSL or WLR on the line. From the point that it is acknowledged that you have a standard PSTN line and the order is accepted, there is a 10 day window in which the unbundling should occur.

Garfield.

dahamsta

Hmmm. Doesn't the OP's query stand then, i.e. if Blueface can do it, why can't Smart?

adam

GarfieldConnoll

dahamsta wrote:

Hmmm. Doesn't the OP's query stand then, i.e. if Blueface can do it, why can't Smart?
adam

Blueface are porting a number away from the PSTN network entirely. Regarding Smart, the argument articulated for the restrictions is that the number is not being ported completely from the PSTN, but rather given that the PSTN line is still physically in place and in use (albeit for LLU), the number cannot be ported as the number remains as a unique reference for the PSTN line (for purposes other than the routing of calls).

It's not an argument that I subscribe to, but that's the argument.

Garfield.

Blaster99

If I understand you correctly, Eircom has the old number for reference of the line and you get a new number? Why not just swap the numbers? Obviously Eircom thinks the line needs to have a phone number in their DB and you need a phone number to route calls to/from. Eircom gets a new arbitrary number for their purposes and Smart gets the old number.

Blaster99

Alternatively, port the existing number off the network. I don't know if this needs to be done in conjunction with a line cancellation or if the existing line automatically gets another phone number, but either way you will end up with a new phone number on the line if it's re-enabled. Unbundle the line, and internally port the original number to the Smart service.

Eurorunner

Sponge Bob wrote:

can blueface only port dublin 01 numbers ....as they have no presence or network elsewhere in Ireland ?

From the horses mouth...

"We hope to have all area codes in Ireland available within 3 to 4 weeks
and at this stage we could swap your number for the desired area code."

dahamsta

Thanks Garfield.

Getting back to Blueface, I'm still not sure if Eircom are permitted to charge line rental once the number has been ported and the line cancelled? Or Blueface for that matter. If I had to pay line rental, that would defeat the purpose of moving to BB/VOIP completely.

adam

paulm17781

dahamsta wrote:

Getting back to Blueface, I'm still not sure if Eircom are permitted to charge line rental once the number has been ported and the line cancelled? Or Blueface for that matter. If I had to pay line rental, that would defeat the purpose of moving to BB/VOIP completely.

Once the number is ported you can cancel your line and stop paying rental. This doesn't apply to ADSL.

can blueface only port dublin 01 numbers ....as they have no presence or network elsewhere in Ireland ?

They have a range of area codes, check their website for details.

oneweb

There's only one thing worse that telesales people. And that's door-to-door sales people. They're the scum of the earth. They'd sell their neighbour's cat to the rotweiller if they had the chance. They're absolute liars, hell-bent on commission.

TBH anyone who gives their account details to ANYONE who knocks on the door unannounced deserves to be taught a lesson, but I still feel sorry for the oul' grannies who called up and said 'Oh I had a man call to my door last week. Something about cheap calls. I haven't heard anything since.'