Building a PC

Kinetic^

I've decided its time to get a new PC and i have one question.

Am i going to save much money by building it myself???

kippy

In My Opinion you will not save much/if any money building the PC yourself.
Unless you are building a PC with an older processor and already have a TFT screen. If I wanted to get a PC for gaming etc I would buy a relatively cheap model for Dell and stick a decent graphics card into it. The same spec to build would almost defiently cost you a hell of a lot more.....

Webmonkey

Well its simple. Go to komplett.ie and build yourself a custom machine with similer specs to another machine ready built and see price difference.

Gurgle

Keyser Soze 69 wrote:

Am i going to save much money by building it myself???

No but you'll get a better PC, more reliable components, more configurable, easier to upgrade.

Manufacturers like Dell use components (wherever possible) which can't be replaced with off-the-shelf upgrades or spares.

They want you to be stuck with them forever.

Examples: PSU that won't fit in a generic case, case that won't take a generic PSU, motherboards with connectors in non-standard positions, 'integrated' CD/DVD/Floppy drives.

Many cheapo PC assembly places use parts that they get for half the going rate and the first time these parts are ever tested is when you try to use them.

DemonOfTheFall

If you manage to grab a good pc from the Dell Outlet store, it'll be very cheap, and decent enough. Let me just say at least you'll have the warranty, because that sucker is goign to break down at least once.

If you use the komplett configurator thingy and get them to build it, itll probably be the same price as a Dell configured off the webpage (unless they have some great offer that week).

If u use komplett and build it yourself you'll get the best balance, IMO. As long as you get the lads here to approve a build and point out any areas it needs fixing then you'll get a nice PC.

The one thing to avoid is just going onto Dell's page and configuring a PC. Youll be F'd in the A for it. I specced out a PC on it the other day and it came to something like 1750 euro for a PC which wasnt nearly as good as my PC which I built from komplett for that price in January.

Kinetic^

The thing is, I have all the peripherals i need, monitor and wireless network card.

Gurgle

Keyser Soze 69 wrote:

The thing is, I have all the peripherals i need, monitor and wireless network card.

If you have a valid(;)) copy of your preferred OS, then you're morally obliged not to buy a PC that includes Windows.

jor el

kippy wrote:

In My Opinion you will not save much/if any money building the PC yourself.
Unless you are building a PC with an older processor and already have a TFT screen. If I wanted to get a PC for gaming etc I would buy a relatively cheap model for Dell and stick a decent graphics card into it. The same spec to build would almost defiently cost you a hell of a lot more.....

Or, a hell of a lot less. Looking at a cheap Dell XPS system it comes in at €1541. A very similar spec bundle from Komplett costs €1035. Add in OS and you've saved about €400 on komplett.

If you know what you're doing, you'll custom build your own. If you don't, you'll buy a cheap Dell and try putting a graphics card in it. By the way, a lot of cheap Dells don't have AGP or PCI-E slots on them. Also, it takes more than just a decent graphics card to make a good PC. A cheap motherboard with slow RAM and a Celeron processor coupled with a GF7800GT would not be the best way to spend your money.

Kinetic^

jor el wrote:

Or, a hell of a lot less. Looking at a cheap Dell XPS system it comes in at €1541. A very similar spec bundle from Komplett costs €1035. Add in OS and you've saved about €400 on komplett.

If you know what you're doing, you'll custom build your own. If you don't, you'll buy a cheap Dell and try putting a graphics card in it. By the way, a lot of cheap Dells don't have AGP or PCI-E slots on them. Also, it takes more than just a decent graphics card to make a good PC. A cheap motherboard with slow RAM and a Celeron processor coupled with a GF7800GT would not be the best way to spend your money.

Thanks for the advice. I'm really looking to use it for running accountancy packeges off & general browsing on the internet. I was hoping somebody would have an idea of what i'll need for the above.

stevenmu

If that's all you want it for then a cheap dell is you're best bet. They're fairly low end tasks and dell do better low end machines than anyone else. For mid to high end (games, complex packages such as AV editing etc), you're better off building yourself, but it sounds like a dell will suit you best. One with 512Mb ram should be loads for an accounting package, browsing the web and word/excel etc. If you can afford to wait, keep an eye on their site for the free double-memory, free delivery and money off offers they have every now and then, and keep an eye in the outlet (http://www.dell.ie/outlet).

jor el

Well, for a basic Home Office PC you don't need much in the line of graphics card or loads of RAM. Get a Socket A or 754 motherboard with a matching Sempron processor. These should both be very cheap, €50-70 for mobo and around €100 for processor. Get 512M of Corsair or Crucial Value RAM, should only be about €50. If possible, a mobo with onboard graphics would save you some more, if not, a GF4 or FX5200 or 9200 should cost sub €50 too. Pick your hard disk and cheap case and power supply (though not Q-Tec power supply as they're crap) and your just about done. All in all, €400 or so should do it.

Oh and CD or DVD drive will be another €20-50 and if you need to buy a Windows licence then you could add in another €80. Cheapest Dell I can see is €520 for basic package so that makes these about the same price. Me, I'd still go self-build 'cause I hate Dell, but the Dell would be the easier option when the price is the same.

Kinetic^

jor el wrote:

Well, for a basic Home Office PC you don't need much in the line of graphics card or loads of RAM. Get a Socket A or 754 motherboard with a matching Sempron processor. These should both be very cheap, €50-70 for mobo and around €100 for processor. Get 512M of Corsair or Crucial Value RAM, should only be about €50. If possible, a mobo with onboard graphics would save you some more, if not, a GF4 or FX5200 or 9200 should cost sub €50 too. Pick your hard disk and cheap case and power supply (though not Q-Tec power supply as they're crap) and your just about done. All in all, €400 or so should do it.

Pretty sweet. Another question, if i were to keep my old PC, are there adaptors available to run all my peripherals off both PC's??

jor el

You mean same keyboard, mouse and monitor on two PCs? If so, a KVM switch will do the trick. I think these can be quite pricey though.

If you network the two PCs, you could set the 2nd one to automatically load VNC at startup and then control that PC over the network connection. This would be the cheap mans equivalent to KVM. Network also takes care of sharing a printer.

SolarNexus

you will never save money by building a computer yourself, for a couple of reasons:

1) Commersial builders (such as Dell) often use sub-par components without telling you, to cut costs. Components such as the PSU are often of low quality, as are the motherboards and other components.

2) For you to personally purchase similar electronics will cost you more because you are purchasing in low-quantities. Companies can purchase in higher quantities and thus get discounts and further savings that you the person can never achieve.

3) When you purchase a product it goes through anywhere upto 4/5 parties (distributors, shippers, packers etc.) each of which tack on their own amount to the final cost. When you finally pay for it, your paying alot of overhead that companies dont have to pay as often they either purchase directly or have the items built to-order for them from the OEM.

Ultimately, you'll rarely if ever find a computer of seemingly similar specs are cheaper if you build them than a commersial business doing it. The advantage of doing it yourself is not cost, but rather options and quality. You will never get retail quality components in an OEM or 'professionally manufactured' computer. Though, today it is getting closer with many manufacturers making it easier for us mere mortals to purchase OEM products (same stuff, just no fancy packing, or shiny manuals.. sometimes not even CD's)

stevenmu

That only really holds true for cheaper machines. Dell can source parts cheaper, but they make huge margins on anything better than bottom spec. Things like a good graphics card, larger hard disk, faster processor, good sound card, better PSU (needed if you want the others) are way more expensive from Dell. They routinly charge €20/€30 to add a floppy drive and I've seen them want €100+ to upgrade from a CDRW to a DVDRW (at a time when DVDRW drives are costing €50-€60). If you were to start with a budget of say €1,000, you could build a much better machine yourself than one you'd get from Dell.

jor el

SolarNexus wrote:

you will never save money by building a computer yourself, for a couple of reasons:

Where do people get this idea from? Comercial builders do source cheap components yes, but they rarely pass that saving on to the end user. See my example above for a "cheap" Dell system. The komplett spec is better but slightly cheaper than the Dell. But you're saying this is impossible. Dell als charge around €120 extra for a DVD writer in any of their computers, but I can buy one for €45 myself. How is the Dell cheaper?

stevenmu

With all that said, it's hard to compete with dells sub-€600 machines, some of them are really good value, especially when they have good special offers on, it's the upgrades, extras and peripherals Dell really make their money on.

Gurgle

stevenmu wrote:

some of them are really good value, especially when they have good special offers on

Dell have cornered Gateway's old market: People who feel they should have a PC, buy one, set it up & never touch it again.
Gateway copped a decade ago that you can sell any junk you like to this sector, so long as it looks the part - at the time that meant 17" CRT & A BIG tower case, now its 17" TFTs with DVD burner in a cool black case.

Dell used to be excellent, but both prices and quality have been dropping for the last few years (pretty much since Gateway sank).

stevenmu

Gurgle wrote:

Dell used to be excellent, but both prices and quality have been dropping for the last few years (pretty much since Gateway sank).

True, they're not what they used to be. Some competition would do them (well us really) some good, but in terms of that particular market they stilll have the best products out there. I'd have no problems rating Dell above anything the Dixons group sells in it's stores. There is more competition in the US from the likes of CompUSA and WalMart (among others), and Dells prices tend to be noticeably better there than here.

Gurgle

stevenmu wrote:

I'd have no problems rating Dell above anything the Dixons group sells in it's stores.

:eek: :eek: :eek:
They're not still trying to sell PCs are they ?

Last I heard PC World (i.e. Dixons Group) would give away a free PC with every insurance gold-plan taken out.

The_Conductor

I'd broadly agree with many of the comments here (esp. about Dell......)
First and foremost irrespective of what you want to do with your PC you should at very least have faith in the integrity of your components. Buying an off-the-shelf product from Dell/PC World will not give you this peace of mind. Having purchased a Dell in the past, I would not put much faith in the "warranty" of their products either- it took them almost 2 months to return a working PC to me when the hard-drive died inside its warranty period, and even then they refused to assist with data recovery/reinstallation of system software (including an operating system).

You will build a nice system in the Komplett configurator, or by putting the components together yourself- a far superior system, for less than the price of a comparable system from Dell or its ilk.

You really are looking for a basic system- there are several second hand systems for sale here on Boards- if you check the For Sale section. I'd recommend having a think about this option- you will pick up a decent system for a very reasonable price.

SCJ