AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Vs AMD Athlon 64 4000+

Sleepy

I'm looking at picking up one of the Komplett AMD Athlon 64 PCI Express machines at the moment. I've never had an AMD based machine before but from what I gather they give far more bang for your buck. Just wondering which Motherboard and Processor settings you tech-savvy people would choose?

Either the AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ or the AMD Athlon 64 4000+ would be about the limit of my budget processor wise and I reckon I should be able to afford any of the recommended motherboards. (I'll definitely be upgrading from the standard board as I want Firewire).

I'll be sticking a gig of ram into the machine and adding opting for the Maxtor DiamondMax 10 250GB SATA 16MB 7200RPM NCQ.

The machine will be primarily used as an everyday home PC for surfing, office etc. but I'm hoping to add a home recording studio to it at some stage (nothing very flashy, maybe a mixer and pre-amp) and I'm sure my brother will be using it for DVD ripping (he's into home recording and has one of those "burn straight to DVD" cameras) as well as the usual MP3 stuff. Planning to add a TV-card as well.

Any suggestions as to which chip I should go for? I know dual-core seems to be the next bit thing from AMD but the 4000+ is advertised as 2.4GHz, whilst the X2 3800+ is only advertised as 2Ghz.

Anyone get one of these machines lately and/or have any useful advice?

Laguna

I'd be inclined to go for the dual core option as it'll save you having to shell out again when dual cores are the norm (i.e. required by applications). It depends what you need from the processors, if you're using intensive applications one at a time I'd recommend the single core. If you're after a processor where you have a couple of things on the go, dual cores are ideal.

Dooom

As what Laguna said, dual cores are only useful at the moment if you need them. Personally I'd go for the 4000+ but granted the x2's may future proof to an extent, but by the time the dual cores are common-place there'll be 2.6 upwards dual cores (probably). It's like getting an AMD 2800 to play HL2. Sort of.

I'd say pick up the 4000+, when you need it, or when the industry need you to, upgrade to one. There'll be new socket's out next year too so more of a reason to wait.

Er..well you get the drift.

Mutant_Fruit

i.e. required by applications

That won't happen for a LONG time. By the time dual cores are "required" to run an app, anything available now will be obsolete.

Dooom

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

That won't happen for a LONG time. By the time dual cores are "required" to run an app, anything available now will be obsolete.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.

Sleepy

Hmmm, any recommendations on the motherboard? Don't know too much about 'em so tempted just to go for the most expensive (for 'you get what you pay for' reasoning)

Dooom

I just read your first post again, and I'd actually recommend you go for the X2. What you plan to do with the PC would give you more reason to get the X2 rather than the 4000+. So disregard what I said really .

Anyway, as for motherboards - I've an Asus A8N-SLI Premium, and it's a brilliant. Check out the DFI range aswell, although they're more aimed at overclockers and the like. Also, check the Sapphire boards (the new ones), I've read a good lot of reviews that all say they're excellent.

/Edit: just read your first post again (probably should do that to begin with), and you're buying a machine.
Would you not consider building one?
Better choices and it'll work out cheaper. If you want, you can post up exactly what the machine will be doing (more or less) and what you'd like on it and I'm sure a few people will spec parts up for you on Komplett, myself included.

Sleepy

How much cheaper would it be to build one? My total experience to date of working with hardware would be the installation of a few PCI cards, RAM, CD-ROM drives etc...

Thought tbh, the biggest worry I'd have would be selecting incompatible gear so if anyone would be game for specing a machine out for me that'd be great! I'm working on a budget of about €1300.

Priorities for the machine:
Fastest performance I can get.
A Gig of Ram
At least 200Gb Disk Drive.
Fast DVD & CD writing
TV Card, Don't need an amazing graphics card as it won't really be a gaming machine but it'll be used for DVD playback and a bit of telly.
Floppy drive, wireless network card, PCI modem

I'm planning to do some sound recording on the machine but I'm still doing a lot of research into it so for now I'm just concentrating on the base machine but if anyone has experience of this, I've about another €300 to spend on a soundcard. I'm trying to find something with either a drive bay or external unit that I can plug a mic and guitar directly into, something like this: http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=123134&cks=PRL (but apparently there are driver issues for this machine under XP SP2 and anything I can find online is pretty sketchy about the inputs they'll take, most seem to need an external mixer).

Looking for something I won't have to upgrade for quite a while that'll be a good all-round performer really.

So, Spike, what do you recommend? (there'll be a pint for you at the next beers for this!)

Dooom

Working on it now, do you need a case/monitor/mouse etc?

Sleepy

Yep, need the works. Monitor has to be a flatscreen due to space restrictions and I'd prefer a 17".

Cheers!

Dooom

Here's the list

A couple of things though, I didn't put in a TV card as I couldn't find one. And the same with the speakers - you might look to invest in a decent set of ones for what you're doing - so I left them out.

And although it's €29 over budget, the graphics card and motherboard could be downgraded a bit to make it fit.


Now for the good bits:
X2 3800+ - decent dual core processor, €5 cheaper than the 4000+.
1GB of decent RAM.
A good all-round motherboard.
Good 16ms TFT monitor.
Fast DVD-RW drive (have one myself)
200GB SATA Hard drive.
Graphics card is good aswell, won't be any problems with it being too slow.
The mouse is optical, and the keyboard is supposed to be good. Plus it has a cool bio-metric fingerprint scanner thingymabob! But again, that can be downgraded to something cheaper. Only put it in there because it was the only set in stock.

How's that?

airetam_storm

Um...a working shopping list?

Dooom

Er right that should work. Wrong link I think. Heh...that rhymes.

Anyway, I replaced the SATA2 drive with a normal SATA one as the motherboard doesn't support SATA2 so not much point in it.

Sleepy

Looks good Spike, thanks! Think I'll downgrade the keyboard and mouse and buy a PSU for it though

So the main difference in building it myself means I can afford a better motherboard, better monitor, better RAM and a faster DVD-RW? Think I'll definitely be building myself so!

Dooom

Ah yes, sorry bout that. Thought the case came with a PSU.

Good look with it, and if you need any help ask and you'll probably get about a million replies

Sleepy

Thanks for your help. Look out for me at the next beers and the barman'll hand you a pint

Laguna

Yeah Sleepy, don't buy a PC pre made as you're paying extra for the little <insert pc brand> sticker on the box. I wouldn't say you need to re-buy windows either, i'm sure you can...procure yourself a copy. You can build a top notch PC for about a grand at Komplett. Make sure you get a decent mobo though, most important part of a computer really, I recommend this motherboard

Dooom

That's a decent motherboard alright, although there's no point getting the SLI version as Sleepy said in his posts that he'll only really be using it for DVD's etc.

Oh and Sleepy, you can buy me a pint if you want to get done for buying alcahol for an under-18 (I refuse to refer to myself as a "minor", sounds so degrading). Goddamn how long does it take for 5 months too pass?!

po0k

Spike wrote:

Er right that should work. Wrong link I think. Heh...that rhymes.

Anyway, I replaced the SATA2 drive with a normal SATA one as the motherboard doesn't support SATA2 so not much point in it.

NF4 Ultra and SLI boards support SATA300 and NCQ.
No point getting good parts if you're pairing them with a piss-poor board.

stevenmu

Another vote for the X2 3800+, as things are audio/video editing can fully tie up one core, with a dual-core you'll still be able to browse the web or do other bits and pieces while you wait. Also audio/visual apps should be among the first to support multiple cores (some already do afaik) giving a nice speed increase over the single-core 4000+.

Khannie

It's a tough call. I'd also (only just) nudge towards the dual core machine because of the type of apps you intend running. The 4000+ will get most of your processing done faster though. That's an important consideration if you think you're just going to be doing one task at a time. The dual core will just let you do multiple things at the same time with comfort.

Sleepy

I think I'm leaning towards the dual core. I think DVD Ripping will be the only really processor intensive task the machine will ever be required to perform (and what's the real difference between a five hour and six hour wait for a DVD Rip? I'd do either overnight while I'm sleeping - obviously completely random guesses as to rip performance) and I'm very much one for having 5/6 apps on the go at at time so I think the dual core.

Syxpak wrote:

NF4 Ultra and SLI boards support SATA300 and NCQ.
No point getting good parts if you're pairing them with a piss-poor board.

Any board you'd recommend Syxer? I'd value your input.

stevenmu

Sleepy wrote:

(and what's the real difference between a five hour and six hour wait for a DVD Rip? I'd do either overnight while I'm sleeping - obviously completely random guesses as to rip performance)

I think you're underestimating the power of your new PC . With a 3200+ I can do a plain rip to hard disc in about 12 to 15 minutes, I can do a rip+shrink in one go in about 25/30, or a straight rip to hard disc + a deep analysis shrink in maybe 30/40, so you should be able to beat those times easily enough. Your point is kind of the same though, the difference between a 3800+ and 4000+ will only be a minute or two at most (probably less, DVD and hard disk speeds will really be the limiting factors).

Sleepy

Sorry, think I'm confusing ripping with DivX encoding Or have PC's come on THAT much?!

On the point of hard disk speeds, this was why I was planning on using a SATA disc. That's their key strength isn't it? I'm a n00b when it comes to this stuff, I know enough to put the machine together, but I'm lost when you get down to the more technical aspects of getting the spec right to get the maximum performance for my budget. Appreciate all the help guys!

Mutant_Fruit

stevenmu wrote:

I think you're underestimating the power of your new PC . With a 3200+ I can do a plain rip to hard disc in about 12 to 15 minutes, I can do a rip+shrink in one go in about 25/30, or a straight rip to hard disc + a deep analysis shrink in maybe 30/40, so you should be able to beat those times easily enough.

Only when transcoding. If you're doing proper encoding, it'll take much longer to encode a movie. Also, the extra speed will definately be noticed in the newer high-quality compression schemes like X264

airetam_storm

Sleepy wrote:

On the point of hard disk speeds, this was why I was planning on using a SATA disc. That's their key strength isn't it?

Theres not a large difference between SATA and PATA drives really, but since there is little price difference, just go SATA. Also should you chose to Raid0 your drives later, you can make greater gains in overall speed

Sleepy

What I went with in the end:

• MSI K8N Diamond, nForce4 SLI,Socket-939, BT,54g, Dual-GbLAN,Creative Live,PCI-Ex16
• AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ 2.0GHz Socket 939 1MB, BOXED w/fan
• Thermaltake Shark Black Aluminium (Without PSU)
• Fortron/Source Powersupply ATX 350W 120mm Fan, SATA, 24pin
• Maxtor DiamondMax 10 250GB SATA 16MB 7200RPM NCQ
• LG DVDRW Dual 16x16x4x40 GSA-4163RBB Black OEM
• BenQ 17" LCD T705 TCO99 Monitor, Black/Silver

Gonna pick up the keyboard, mouse and TV Card in Maplins.

jesus_thats_gre

Graphics card?

Sleepy

Still researching that. Don't want to spend more than a hundred euros or so tbh. It's not going to be doing any heavy gaming or CAD etc. so I've no need for a top-end card. Any suggestions in the budget range?

Was looking at these two but not sure what the main differences between the two are (is it just that the second card can be upgraded?). The specs seem to be given in different ways so it's difficult for a n00b like me to contrast the two:

http://www.komplett.ie/k/kl.asp?bn=10488&sortBy=p&minprice=&maxPrice=&inStockOnly=on

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=307845&cks=PRL

This is the standard card used in the Komplett AMD 64 Express builds, and while it's more expensive than the other two, it seems to have less on-board memory (which confuses me tbh)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=308132&cks=PRL

Any pointers?

Zerolord

Sleepy wrote:

Still researching that. Don't want to spend more than a hundred euros or so tbh. It's not going to be doing any heavy gaming or CAD etc. so I've no need for a top-end card. Any suggestions in the budget range?

Was looking at these two but not sure what the main differences between the two are (is it just that the second card can be upgraded?). The specs seem to be given in different ways so it's difficult for a n00b like me to contrast the two:

http://www.komplett.ie/k/kl.asp?bn=10488&sortBy=p&minprice=&maxPrice=&inStockOnly=on

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=307845&cks=PRL

This is the standard card used in the Komplett AMD 64 Express builds, and while it's more expensive than the other two, it seems to have less on-board memory (which confuses me tbh)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=308132&cks=PRL

Any pointers?

I can think you can quess who this is. If ya cant i help you decided on what to get for the computer.

If ya want my opinion on the GPU dont bother getting one for while, or if you want get one of the cheap Sapphire Radeon cards, i have one of there cards and i have to say they are pretty good. You know what my computer is like but i would love to have ur new one with about a good 256mb x16 pci-e card but hey i cant afford it right now.

Khannie

Zerolord wrote:

I can think you can quess who this is.

I can't. Who are you?

Zerolord

Khannie wrote:

I can't. Who are you?

Im one of sleepy's friends that help him spec out the computer, i build computers myself every now and again.

Sleepy

Oops, MOBO's not compatible with dual-core processors... D'oh!

Back to the drawing board...

Zerolord

Sleepy wrote:

Oops, MOBO's not compatible with dual-core processors... D'oh!

Back to the drawing board...

Well come back down and we'll have another look at it!

Khannie

Zerolord wrote:

Im one of sleepy's friends that help him spec out the computer, i build computers myself every now and again.

Welcome.

Zerolord

Khannie wrote:

Welcome.

It feels so good to be welcomed,

Sleepy

Shopping List
(List also includes a PCMCIA wireless card for my laptop)

Machine Specs:

* Thermaltake Shark BlackAluminium (Without PSU)
* Fortron/Source Powersupply ATX 350W120mm Fan, SATA, 24pin
* Asus A8N-SLI Premium, nForce4 SLI,Socket-939, Super Cooling pipe, PCI-Ex16
* AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ 2.0GHz Socket 9391MB, BOXED w/fan
* Sapphire Radeon X300SE 128MB DDRPCI-Express, Tv-Out, Lite-Retail
* BenQ 17" LCD T705 TCO99 Monitor,Black/Silver
* Maxtor DiamondMax 10 250GB SATA16MB 7200RPM NCQ
* NEC DVD recorder ND-3540A IDE Black OEM
* CNet Wireless-G PCI 54 Mbps 802.11g,WPA/AES/WPA2, RP-SMA connector
* Microsoft Windows XP Home SP2Software English OEM

I'll be putting a gig of RAM and an ACME TV-Card, Modem and Floppy Drive into her as well.

Only thing I'm not overly happy with is the graphics card but then again, it's not intended to be a games rig, just a moderately future-proof powerhouse

WizZard

Why not get the A8N Deluxe, it uses a chipset fan and so won't be as quiet, but it's cheaper. Then put the extra cash toward an X600. The X300 is not great by all accounts... for anything.
I'd go with a 400W PSU anyway for a dual core system, or else it's not even moderately futureproof.

Mutant_Fruit

AMD dual cores use less power than AMD single cores if i remember my reviews correctly. But still, i wouldn't go for anything less than 400W. New GFX cards are power hungry beasts.

Sleepy

PSU Upgraded...

If I throw another €30 at the graphics card (prefer not to downgrade the MOBO), I can get the MSI GeForce 6200 128MB DDR PCI-Express, NX6200-TD128E, Retail. Can't stretch much further... Anyone got any experience with this card?

Sleepy

Gonna be another two weeks before the chip's back in stock!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=296578