How Long Will Our Culture Survive?

KnowItAll

I was having a discussion with my friend the other day about how long will Irish culture as we know it survive? She thinks about 40 years depending on the degree of immigration. I think it’ll last longer also depending on immigration, about 60 years but judging some of the anti Nationalistic attitudes here on boards I may be wrong !

Heres one example http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=294678&page=3&pp=20

Dinner

For ever and ever and ever. Irish Culture survives all over the world. It exists within other cultures. There is no reason to say that just because of immegration that culture will dissapear.

More foreigners will come here and settle down. Their kids will grow up Irish. They will learn Irish in schools (unless that gets scrapped through no fault of immegrants).

Malorkus

I'll give the human race about another 100 years unless something drastically changes.

Victor

What is culture? Does a culture that doesn't change, stagnate and die?

Is the culture in Ireland the same as the culture 10, 20, 50 or 100 years ago? No it isn't.

Give up yer aul spuds and get some chips and curry.

Sarsfield

You see more Irish culture abroad than you do in Ireland.

I would suggest that immigration strengthens culture by making us more aware of both our own and that of others. In a homogeneous sociey we take it for granted, ignore it and allow it to be subtly eroded my mass market, American TV culture. Which has pretty much happened here already. I see little evidence on the streets of Dublin of the 'traditional' Irish culture I suspect you are referring to.

In a multicultural society, we use our culture to help identify ourselves. Both as 'natives' and immigrants. And the Irish are both.

Plus you need to understand that culture is not static. It evolves (and has always done) based on the experiences of that culture. Including interaction with other cultures. Whatever Ireland is like in 40, 60 or 100 years will, by definition, be Irish culture.

Your understanding of nationalism seems a little shallow. Would you care to explain it? It seems to me to be a simple anti-immigration approach. Please also explain your definition of Irish culture. What does it involve? What should a good cultural Irishman or Irishwoman be doing to be properly Irish?

KnowItAll

Victor wrote:

Give up yer aul spuds and get some chips and curry.

What if you don't like the curry?

People think that change is always a good thing. Well look at whats happening to the country now. More drug addicts, crime, stabbings, killings, greed. Generally people are not as friendly as they used to be.

Simi

What exactly is Irish culture as we know it? What is your definition of Irish culture? And what is the point of continuing to force people to learn Irish? Discuss please .

KnowItAll

Simi wrote:

What exactly is Irish culture as we know it? What is your definition of Irish culture? And what is the point of continuing to force people to learn Irish? Discuss please .

Everybody has an identity. Being Irish is part of our identity. What people don't realise is that by being "more multicultural" instead of having a unique identity we're becoming like every other westernised country on the planet (see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=264140)

Coney Island

Foregneirs are moving to Ireland mainly to learn English (short term, up to a year) or to work (long term, the majority) as the economy is very strong in Ireland. In 10 years time, the economy may change and foregneirs will aim for different countries.

Flukey

Our culture will evolve. Remember it has been doing so for years. It has been changed by "outsiders" before like the vikings, normans, celts etc. etc., so the moderm immigrants are not the first outside influence. Our culture is also being changed through the media and the modern age we live in. Our culture is influenced in many ways through many sources. Even if immigration here was zero, our culture would still change. That is the nature of culture.

Simi

Multiple cultures create the Irish culture? Do you include the way of the Romanians in that? Along with the Italians? Sure throw in some Spaniards with that..

I don't see how that creates the Irish culture, our ancestors created it. True Irish men and women.

Thanks for the link it just made my point and I only had to go to the third post. God I love nazism, it's so easy to attack .

monkeyfudge

The Irish are pretty much a doggerel of a race.

We've been invaded by the Celts, the Vikings, the Saxons and the Normans. The Spanish Armada left quite a few souls on our island too... all of these peoples were incorporated into what is essentially Irish culture. I have no idea how you could possibly think that adding more diveristy and ethnicity to the mix is somehow going take away from our culture, it can only add to it.

EDIT:/oops.. I guess Flukey pretty much made that point... I've got to stop wandering off after I press the reply button...

Dagnir Glaurung

Let's carve swirls into rocks! Oh let's!

Dave!

I agree that people on these boards are very anti-nationalistic... Every thread about the Irish language ends up in a debate about the importance of the language -- which is fine; but the majority of the posters want rid of it, or don't want to devote any time or money to it. They want a strong Ireland -- which is fair enough; don't we all? -- but they're willing to cash in our history and our language in order to achieve this. We're not a dying country, we have a strong economy... I think we're in a position to stop, look around, and decide what's important for our country. I guess I have an idealist's point of view, but I'd like to go back (in a sense) to "Romantic Ireland" and have us find our roots again. Oh well...

xzanti

Well nobody can deny that Ireland is changing. I remember when I was a child it was a novelty to see a black or asian person walking down the street, now its part of our everyday lives. I personally think veriety is the spice of life, I dont think irish culture will ever disappear so to speak but it is definatley changing.. perhaps for the better IMO... I personally think this is a great time to live in Ireland.. I definately would not have liked to grow up here in the 70's or 80's when you couldnt even buy condoms, gay people were practically burnt at the stake, women were'nt allowed into pubs, and it was unheard of for a woman to have a career outside of childbaring, Yes I definately think change is good..

Dagnir Glaurung

I find the idea of "culture disappearing" to be quite silly. It may go but it will be replaced by something better. That's always been the way. I bet there were people who thought using roundy rocks to move around would mean the end of their way of life.

Flukey

The only way our culture will die is if we are all wiped out, in the way some ancient cultures were and there was no way of recording their culture. Otherwise our culture will evolve as it has always been doing.

ArthurDent

KnowItAll wrote:

Everybody has an identity. Being Irish is part of our identity. What people don't realise is that by being "more multicultural" instead of having a unique identity we're becoming like every other westernised country on the planet (see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=264140)

What is this unique identity? I'm sure you put 100 people in a room and ask them what defines "irishness" you'll get 100 different answers.
To some it's language or sports or historical perspective or political views, to others it could be cultural or any number of other things. Being "Irish" has and will always mean different things to different people.

I love supporting GAA and speak Irish with my kids, but I also love Thai food and watch rugby and speak predominantly English - does that make me any less Irish?
If history has taught us anything its that the most sucessful societies are those that change and adapt.
Pre-celtic Ireland was a very homogeous society that was probably the last true "pure" Irish society, is that the unique identity you think we should aim for?

Victor

KnowItAll wrote:

More drug addicts, crime, stabbings, killings, greed.

So we should blame the Columbians for the coked out of their heads nouveau-riche Irish for kicking the heads of strangers in on a Saturday night?

CerebralCortex

monkeyfudge wrote:

The Irish are pretty much a doggerel of a race.

We've been invaded by the Celts, the Vikings, the Saxons and the Normans.

I'm very interested to know when we where invaded by the Celt and the Saxons.

I've never known, in my 22 years on this island, Ireland to have a unique culture but more an Irish spin on all the countries that influence us.
Lets face it as far as culture goes we're a mongrel nation.

Any other cultures like the Japanese anime culture are far more exciting imo.

I don't think there is anythjng to worry about as regards our culture in the next forty years but that is just me.

rcunning03

Dagnir Glaurung wrote:

I find the idea of "culture disappearing" to be quite silly. It may go but it will be replaced by something better. That's always been the way. I bet there were people who thought using roundy rocks to move around would mean the end of their way of life.

If it hadn't of been for the wheel, We'd still be hunting deer during the day, drinking meade at night, popping mushrooms, having communal sex and nay a mortgage repayment anywhere.

Ah! The good ole days before the wheel.

ArthurDent

CerebralCortex wrote:

I'm very interested to know when we where invaded by the Celt and the Saxons.
.

Celtic "invasion"

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/pre_norman_history/iron_age.html

Probably truer to say anglo-norman invasion than saxon invasion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Norman

WhiteWashMan

KnowItAll wrote:

What if you don't like the curry?

People think that change is always a good thing. Well look at whats happening to the country now. More drug addicts, crime, stabbings, killings, greed. Generally people are not as friendly as they used to be.

it is what happens in ireland, so it is now irish culture.

culture is not something that happened 100 years ago. culture is what has happened, and is what is now happening.

its not just irish culture, the culture of ever nation is changing constantly.
after all, many people could say that the irish culture has infiltraded many other nations of this earth.
whether or not its a good thing or not is debatable

Dave!

Every nation has their own culture... But some are depleting faster than others in place of a mono-culture (Western culture, I guess), probably because of TV and the likes. Some countries work harder than others at holding onto their culture, though.

CerebralCortex

DaveMcG wrote:

Every nation has their own culture... But some are depleting faster than others in place of a mono-culture (Western culture, I guess), probably because of TV and the likes. Some countries work harder than others at holding onto their culture, though.

Nah.

Hobbes

I blame the vikings.. coming here taking all our women!

WhiteWashMan

and our jobs...

Dave!

CerebralCortex wrote:

Nah.

Okay.

CerebralCortex

DaveMcG wrote:

Okay.

I'm glad you agree.

Sarsfield

I think us Dubs should be far more worried about the culchie culture taking over the city. Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against culchies. Some of my best friends are culchies. But everyone would be better off if they were kept to their own side of the M50

CerebralCortex

Sarsfield wrote:

I think us Dubs should be far more worried about the culchie culture taking over the city. Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against culchies. Some of my best friends are culchies. But everyone would be better off if they were kept to their own side of the M50

You have just unwittingly signed your cultures death warrents.

billy the squid

I can't believe i actually read that seven page therad that knowitall linked to and this two page thread and am still at a loss as to what he thinks Irish culture actually is, despite being asked numerous times in both threads.

Has Irish culture anything to do with our most popular religion? nah, it can't be that as it comes from Rome.

could it be the language that we all speak, nah cant be that either, that came from England Even the irish Gaelge has roots in other lands.

Our national day (March 17th) celebrates a man who came from Britain.

a few more "cultures" will compliment our own rather than destroy it i believe.

the_syco

If Irish culture ever dies here, we'll have to go abroad to experience it.

CerebralCortex

billy the squid wrote:

I can't believe i actually read that seven page therad that knowitall linked to and this two page thread and am still at a loss as to what he thinks Irish culture actually is, despite being asked numerous times in both threads.

Has Irish culture anything to do with our most popular religion? nah, it can't be that as it comes from Rome.

could it be the language that we all speak, nah cant be that either, that came from England Even the irish Gaelge has roots in other lands.

Our national day (March 17th) celebrates a man who came from Britain.

a few more "cultures" will compliment our own rather than destroy it i believe.

Quite simply imho this guy is a genious. I think this endless debate should be ended on billy's note.

seamus

KnowItAll banned for thinking he's being clever.