The Poker Scene In Dublin.

Dub13

I got thinking of this today and taught it would be interesting to see what the general consensus is out there among the players.I know some boardsters have spread there "poker wings" and have an idea of what its like to play outside Ireland and maybe they can enlighten us on were Dublin stands right now in the poker world.

Also what would you like to see happen on the scene in Dublin...?

So with the ever increasing number of players and card rooms in Dublin how do you rate Poker in Dublin...?

Culchie

Love to see a bar in a Casino, even if it is in a designated area, and not allowed at tables.

Harder to manage the 5% trouble makers wherever you go I know, but would be heaven for 95% of punters.

MadsL

Love to see a bar in a Casino, even if it is in a designated area, and not allowed at tables.

Harder to manage the 5% trouble makers wherever you go I know, but would be heaven for 95% of punters.

I actually like the fact that poker is one of the only social events in Ireland that doesn't revolve around drink.

okidoki987

I actually like the fact that poker is one of the only social events in Ireland that doesn't revolve around drink.

You've never played in one of my home games :eek:

Imposter

I've only played 3 times in a casino (Fitz, Linz and Vienna) but here are my impressions.

The variety of tournaments and cash games in Dublin is far bigger and better than what exists in Austria. There are other casinos than what i've listed above but they seem to offer similar 'choices' to what is in Linz.

In Linz (more comaprable to Cork than Dublin in size) the (single) card club only has 4/8 and 10/20 limit holdem as well as some 7-card stud (not sure of the limits but it was played with 1€ chips). The 4/8 game runs every day at 6pm and again later in the evening (about 10ish). The 10/20 runs usually at weekends but may run at about 10 on some week nights. For tournaments they only have a 150€ freezeout that's ran twice a month on a Sunday. People with 15 hours play in the 2 weeks get free entry and I think it's got a guaranteed prizefund of 4k.

Vienna again only has one club (needs to be licensed etc so no more are possible). For cash games they have 3/6 Limit Holdem, what looks like a similar stud game to Linz and possibly higher games of holdem but all are limit. If there are enough people they'll spread other games but unless during festivals i'd say that is rare.

They do run tournaments pretty much every day but most are very low entry fees. See here for their August schedule!

I've played the 50€ plus a possible rebuy and a top-up game earlier this month and the standard isn't great. The friday game in the fitz was a far better standard the time I played it.

So unless you want to play limit poker and very few tournaments then stay away from Austria! There is a bar in all the clubs but i've never seen anyone drunk at the tables.

jtsuited

i think smaller cash games wouldn't go a miss in the fitz, just for the smelly poor student types.
And i also like being away from drink while still being in a social atmosphere. It's a rare situation in this country. Speaking of which, i really can't stand the smell of booze at a table. Which happens quite often.

mewso

Well much as poker in Dublin seems to love pot limit whatever I would love to see more limit cash games. I think it's our only shortfalling, lack of limit poker which would be very popular, I think, with more casual players.

smurph

jtsuited wrote:

i think smaller cash games wouldn't go a miss in the fitz, just for the smelly poor student types.
And i also like being away from drink while still being in a social atmosphere. It's a rare situation in this country. Speaking of which, i really can't stand the smell of booze at a table. Which happens quite often.

Thats why I always bring chewing gum, to offer at table and pray the beer smelling guy beside me takes one. Although since the smoking ban be thankful thats all you can smell. Some serious pongs on sunny days.

Shortstack

I would say that Dublin has the best poker scene in the whole of Europe. Consider the size of the city compared to most. London only has two card clubs - The Gutshot & The Vic.

In the UK they cannot organise Poker tournaments in Hotels or pubs.

You only have to look at results across the world to see that we produce more than our fair share of good players. I don't recall anybody from the UK winning the world series and very few have made the WSOP final table. Ireland had three at the final table one year. Add to that Scott Gray & Andy Black and we are kicking their Royal A**es.

At every event there seems to be an Irishman in contention at some point. This years EPT will produce an Irish winner I believe. Look at the quality of players who are likely to play in most and have a realistic shot at winning without a freak run of luck:

Alan Betson
Peter Roche
Rory Liffey
Andy Black
Mike Magee
Donnacha O'Dea
Padraig Parkinson
Declan Barker
Stephen Dunphy
Don Fagan

Then you have all the young up & coming players most of which will prove to have what it takes in the bigger games:

Mark McMahon
David O'Callaghan
Niall O'Callaghan
Stephen McLean
Oscar
Marq

Plus there are probaly 20-30 other players who if they manage to qualify for a bigger event then they will not be out place.

Irish Poker has always been good but the next few years will see us take over the world!

Doc Farrell

hurrah!
nice post Mike.
except.... who are these young whippsnappers you mention?

and yes, a cheaper buyin table running all day at the weekends would be handy. although if it's limit, god help us.

Hectorjelly

Dublin needs a no limit game

mewso

So you can bring that infinite bankroll to bear on dublin poker HJ?

Lafortezza

Hectorjelly wrote:

Dublin needs a no limit game

I doubt I'd sit and play in this game, but with the right players I might pay to watch it for a little while. Just thinking of some of the bigger cash game players in the Fitz. Could be entertaining.

Hectorjelly

musician wrote:

So you can bring that infinite bankroll to bear on dublin poker HJ?

So i dont have to hear the words pot, pot, pot over and over again.

Hectorjelly

lafortezza wrote:

I doubt I'd sit and play in this game, but with the right players I might pay to watch it for a little while. Just thinking of some of the bigger cash game players in the Fitz. Could be entertaining.

You play no limit online dont you? Why not offline?

Daithio

Hectorjelly wrote:

Dublin needs a no limit game

Definitely. The reason there is none is because of the way the clubs over here take in their rake, ie. by the hour or half hr rather than as a percentage of each pot. Because of the nature of no limit players are more likely to go broke faster and so the casino will lose out on the rake as players won't be sitting at the table for as long. The simple solution is to do what all other casinos do with their no limit games and rake a percentage of each pot. I don't know if anyone has suggested setting up a NLH game to either the Fitz or the Merrion but I'd definitely play in it if it got started.

Lafortezza

Hectorjelly wrote:

You play no limit online dont you? Why not offline?

I play PL Omaha, and NL STTs and MTTs online. PL hold'em and omaha live.
I have an utterly disasterour record in online NL Hold'em cash games, seriously, single figures of winning sessions outside the penny tables.

I've never played NL Hold'em live apart from crazy-monkey drunken home games.

ocallagh

I would play more cash games if there was a NL option. I don't like the cash game in the fitz... too many gamblers get to see a flop when I play my premium cards!

bohsman

Daithio wrote:

Definitely. The reason there is none is because of the way the clubs over here take in their rake, ie. by the hour or half hr rather than as a percentage of each pot. Because of the nature of no limit players are more likely to go broke faster and so the casino will lose out on the rake as players won't be sitting at the table for as long. The simple solution is to do what all other casinos do with their no limit games and rake a percentage of each pot. I don't know if anyone has suggested setting up a NLH game to either the Fitz or the Merrion but I'd definitely play in it if it got started.

Ill set this up on any given night, I just need a list of 9 or so players to come in and start the game, I think the way around the rake situation is to have a max buyin

Daithio

bohsman wrote:

I think the way around the rake situation is to have a max buyin

That's what they did in the Bicycle Oscar and it worked really well. They had a 1-2 game where max was 100, a 3-5 game where max was 200 (a bit mental) and a 5-5 game where min was 300 and max 500. The 5-5 was a really good game, IMO the max buy ins of the other too were a little small relative to the blinds. Maybe we should start a separate thread to get a list of people together who will play.

Shortstack

ocallagh wrote:

I would play more cash games if there was a NL option. I don't like the cash game in the fitz... too many gamblers get to see a flop when I play my premium cards!

I actually prefer Omaha for cash but would never play it in a tournie (well maybe the odd hi/lo). Omaha attracts gamblers and this can only be profitable for the better players.

I can see that NL cash games would be atrrtactive to a lot of people though. However I don't know that there would be much of a call for limit games bar the American tourists.

Hectorjelly

Max buyins are sily

Marq

I agree with Hector, Max buy-ins are ridiculous. NLH cash games are best played when the stacks are extremely deep. With capped buy-ins the game is played entirely differently. I think that the best compromise would be to allow people to buy in for the largest stack on the table, though even this is messy in practice.

I quite like pot limit hold'em, even online. However, I think that live No Limit Cash Games would bring in more fish to the scene.

Shortstack

Hectorjelly wrote:

Max buyins are sily

Really? From a purists point of view maybe, but to keep the game playable it is a must in no limt.

Every game needs a limit or you will not get the players. People who play 1/2 will not play if they are up against €1000+ stacks all the time. Fine if the odd person has built one up but you must have a realistic ceiling on what to bring into which game. I would say 200 big blinds would be adequate.

If you want to put €10,000 on the table then I am sure there are more than a few locals who will play at thopse stakes with 25/50 blinds. Not me though

Hectorjelly

Shortstack wrote:

Really? From a purists point of view maybe, but to keep the game playable it is a must in no limt.

Every game needs a limit or you will not get the players. People who play 1/2 will not play if they are up against €1000+ stacks all the time. Fine if the odd person has built one up but you must have a realistic ceiling on what to bring into which game. I would say 200 big blinds would be adequate.

If you want to put €10,000 on the table then I am sure there are more than a few locals who will play at thopse stakes with 25/50 blinds. Not me though

If I sit down at a table with 10k and you have 100e, what advantage do I have other than having plenty of chips to play with? Whatever you buyin for is the most that you can lose in a hand, so you choose the effective buyin for your table.

Hectorjelly

Just as a sidenote, its actually unusual for a no limit game to have a max buyin. Adding one affects the play in an adverse way. They are just there so as not to scare beginners off. If you play in vegas most of the casinos on the strip have max buy ins, downtown where the real gamblers play there are none. The strip is designed for WPT wannabees who wear wrap around sun glasses and enjoy getting all in preflop with AK, downtown is for degenerate gamblers who havent slept in 3 days and enjoy putting their entire bankroll on the line. I know where I belong.

bohsman

Hectorjelly wrote:

Just as a sidenote, its actually unusual for a no limit game to have a max buyin. Adding one affects the play in an adverse way. They are just there so as not to scare beginners off. If you play in vegas most of the casinos on the strip have max buy ins, downtown where the real gamblers play there are none. The strip is designed for WPT wannabees who wear wrap around sun glasses and enjoy getting all in preflop with AK, downtown is for degenerate gamblers who havent slept in 3 days and enjoy putting their entire bankroll on the line. I know where I belong.

Unfortunately in Dublin the degenerate gamblers play PLO while the WPT wannabees would need to be protected in a NLH cash game... and just thinking of the list that would start a NLH cash game in Dublin the WPT wannabees are most certainely needed

Fatboydim

I think in general we're very lucky. Having played so far only in Ireland, UK and Caribbean... I would say we are spoilt. Take the Fitz... Plenty of room... can always see the poker clock so you always know where you are with the blinds. Good dealers. Good food... Good players and even the Fish are fun to talk to. Very few posers on the whole... and also only a handful of idiots who tell you how you should have played the hand.

In the Caribbean... which was basically US once removed. The dealers were on the most part poor... The players rude... and there were far mor A holes in sunglasses [This was the Caribbean I suppose... But hey... we were indoors.] Far more A holes who told you how you should have played... And then when you won a hand it was always because you were LUCKY and shouldn't have played that hand in the first place.

Then the UK - On the whole I've found the organisation of events to be a little more scatty - Players - in London in particular - to be less than friendly. They gather up blinds which makes it confusing to see who has bet what... Both in the Gutsot [and at Luton] I was sat at tables where I couldn't see the poker clock. And players who think they are the bollox when they really aren't. ON the plus side however I would say that Luton has the friendliest staff anywhere [which is a tough call as staff at the Fitz and Merrion are spot on] And the most stunning dealer anywhere - God she was lovely.

So I think we're doing alright.

Then moving away from Dublin... The Poker Events run by Fintan and co are excellent - Standard of play in the provinces is improving - It's all good gravy.

Daithio

The reason that Oscar suggested having a max buy in was because it would ensure that people would remain at the table for longer without going bust too quick, and so the casino would be able to rake an adequate amount. If the rake was done as a percentage of each pot, like in any other casino, rather than per player per hour, there wouldn't be a problem and there'd be no need for a max buy in.

NickyOD

Hectorjelly wrote:

You play no limit online dont you? Why not offline?

lol. Amen. How the **** can a guy who has been playing for years not know how much he can raise to preflop after only 1 player has limped in. It doesn't take a hige amount of effort to calculate the pot and its not like you HAVE to bet the pot in pot limit but some plaers insist on it regardless of their holding. That kind of stupidity really makes my head hurt.
:mad:

As for max buuy in games I definitely agree their needs to be one. I think both a max buy in and a non max buy in game. I'd agree that max buy in tables are very uncommon though.

bohsman

Hectorjelly wrote:

Max buyins are sily

You play NLH online dont you? If you play with a max buyin online why not offline

Shortstack

One of the dealers may correct me on this but I think that the time charge is the only legal way they can rake the pots over here.

HJ point about you only being able to lose what you put in front of you is correct but if you are playing low stakes it changes the dynamic of the game considerably when 3 or 4 players have 10-20x the stack of the rest of the players, at least it should. Not to mention how scared a new player would be sitting down with his/her €100 being dwarfed by massive stacks.

If you want a no max buy in then it should be in a 2/5 or higher game which would be more of a level for experienced/degenerate gamblers.

If I was playing a large bankroll then I would agree with all the no max buy in players but there has to be coverage in the market for everyone and the vast majority of players, especially those coming from an online background would only play in a max buy in situation.

kpnuts

Don't know if it's a legal issue with rake needing to be per hour or whether they could take rake as % of pot, obv capped, like they do in NL games in the US, but I agree a NL cash game is now needed in Dublin.

For starters, I would suggest a 1-2 NL game with 50-200 min-max buy-in and 2-5 NL with 200-500 min-max buy-in ...

The more I see, read and hear of playing poker elsewhere in Europe, the more I feel we are spoilt with the range and regularity of games here, certainly in Dublin and increasingly around the country too. NL cash games the only missing link, IMO

BrendanB

In fairness lads, is there a massive difference between a pot and no-limit holdem game? Are there people who won't play pot-limit who would otherwise play a no-limit game?

The holdem game struggled whenever it was run in the Fitz, beyond the novelty value of the first couple of nights - the reasons I would suggest are (a) there's better value (with admittedly larger swings) for sensible players in the 50 round of each and (b) regardless of the size of the game / max-buyin, it's still too steep for relatively new players coming in to spend a max of a hundred quid. Given these, those left in holdem probably aren't going to get a huge amount of value.

Hectorjelly

Every time Im in the Fitz or the Merrion now the Hold Em only game is running and theres plenty of interest.

Hectorjelly

Shortstack wrote:

If I was playing a large bankroll then I would agree with all the no max buy in players but there has to be coverage in the market for everyone and the vast majority of players, especially those coming from an online background would only play in a max buy in situation.

Have you played in games with no max buy in? The biggest difference I found was that in a capped game if you took a bad beat it was almost impossible to get back to even quickly. In the uncapped games there seemed to be plenty of people who were happy to buy in for the minimum several times. It really isnt much of an issue.

Daithio

ocallagh wrote:

I would play more cash games if there was a NL option. I don't like the cash game in the fitz... too many gamblers get to see a flop when I play my premium cards!

Enough said really. The standard of player that you are likely to find in the 50 game at the fitz doesn't fold A4 suited to a raise that is only 3 1/2 times the SB. This means that you are often facing 3 or 4 players post flop which makes it near impossible or just plain stupid to attempt a bluff. Without being able to bluff in certain situations the edge is significantly reduced. I've found that in the small no limit cash games in the states the ability to raise 5 to 6 times the BB normally reduces the field down to just you and another player, and so it is alot easier to take a pot down post flop without actually having to hit. The proof is in the pudding really, I've had consistently mediocre results in the cash games in Dublin whereas in the States I was consistently winning. Basically PLH may be a more skillful game when it is played for alot of money against the best players in the world, but for the amount we are playing, NLH is a much better option.

bohsman

BrendanB wrote:

In fairness lads, is there a massive difference between a pot and no-limit holdem game? Are there people who won't play pot-limit who would otherwise play a no-limit game?

The holdem game struggled whenever it was run in the Fitz, beyond the novelty value of the first couple of nights - the reasons I would suggest are (a) there's better value (with admittedly larger swings) for sensible players in the 50 round of each and (b) regardless of the size of the game / max-buyin, it's still too steep for relatively new players coming in to spend a max of a hundred quid. Given these, those left in holdem probably aren't going to get a huge amount of value.

The Holdem only is very popular at this stage, The round of each is at this stage populated by those players that just want to sit there all night without winning or losing

Hitman Actual

bohsman wrote:

The round of each is at this stage populated by those players that just want to sit there all night without winning or losing

I dont get this, bohsman... Should you not be hit with bigger swings in the Omaha game, and thus a bigger chance of going broke on any given night?

bohsman

There are a number of players who enjoy playing Omaha and like to sit there for the whole night gambling a bit every now and then and sleeping for a bit etc while the more serious punters have now abandoned the round of each for Omaha only, that said it can be a good game the odd night but I never did like the change of game every 9 hands especially with the smokers all leaving when Holdem came around, these days I only play PLO when Im on tilt.

califano

does anyone know or care why there isnt any holdem tournaments other that the fitz freeroll on of a saturday?. surely this is the night there should be lots of choices to be had?. i mean its a weekend night and most of us dont have work the next day so what better day to have a few tournaments on than a saturday?.

Daithio

I dunno Rounders, I quite like not having the temptation on Saturdays as well as every other night of the week, I need to save at least one night a week for my other addiction.

califano

lol as long as nobody states 'social life' as a reason because i think we all know thats not true .

POKERKING

firstly i think the standard in ireland is excellent from dealers standard to the variety of games available...as for the max buy-in for a no limit cash game i think its right there should be one i played in atlantic city wer the min was 50 and max 300 so i sat down with 200 but sum drunk old lad had accumulated thousands from sitting there for the whole day so he raised every hand to between 100-200 regardless of what he had meaning that if anyone called it would put them all in blinds were 1-2 at this stage and when people had the balls to call hed hit something riduculus like for eg straight flush with 83o and agianst me in particular id ajs he had a8o and of course he hit an 8!so if in dublin there was no max buy in every table would be bullied by whoever had the most money and it takes the play out of the game!

Hectorjelly

so you dont want a maxbuy in because you will get drunk old people willing to get all in with 83o preflop? I dont think you will get many people agreeing with you.

Dub13

I would be interested to here from those who voted that the Scene In Dublin is poor....