مدرسه Madrassas

marco murphy

For those of your from Pakistan. A freind who is a shia says Madrassas are schools of ignorance.
Kill 7 shias and you'll go to heaven.

Any opinions?
Salaams

r3boot

I'd have to agree the madrasas are the cause of most of the porblems that muslims face these days. They are places where uneducated extremists go to spill out their filth and the reason why we have such a bad name.....

marco murphy

Whos we? Are you a Muslim?
I was disgusted and shocked to hear that about killing 7 shias. This freind also got a drive by done on his house, completely riddled the outside of his house
After that the mosque was bombed. All near kashmir.

Tom Dunne

I remember reading a book by Tom Friedman, Foreign Editor of the New York Times. He visited a few Madrasses and while interviewing staff, asked to see the library. For so called schools, he said they had little or no books on science, literature, society, arts, nothing.

Guess what book they had plenty copies of?

Tom Dunne

r3boot wrote:

I'd have to agree the madrasas are the cause of most of the porblems that muslims face these days. They are places where uneducated extremists go to spill out their filth and the reason why we have such a bad name.....

I disagree that they are the cause of most problems. What percentage of Muslims attend Mardasses? A low percentage I would imagine. There are other extreme elements - don't forget Wahabisim in Saudi Arabia. Now there is a civilised, progressive, open minded bunch.

Dr_Teeth

I'm sure like anything else there are madrassas where tolerence is taught, and ones where bigotry is taught. In general though Sunnis would follow verses like the following when dealing with shi'as, and vice versa:

003.159: "It was by the mercy of Allah that thou wast lenient with them (O Muhammad), for if thou hadst been stern and fierce of heart they would have dispersed from round about thee. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them and consult with them upon the conduct of affairs. And when thou art resolved, then put thy trust in Allah. Lo! Allah loveth those who put their trust (in Him). "

I live beside a Madrassa on Aungier's Street. I'll let you know if there are any drive-bys.

marco murphy

tom dunne wrote:

I disagree that they are the cause of most problems. What percentage of Muslims attend Mardasses? A low percentage I would imagine. There are other extreme elements - don't forget Wahabisim in Saudi Arabia. Now there is a civilised, progressive, open minded bunch.

Madrassas are quite frequent in pakistan

r3boot

Poblachtach wrote:

Whos we? Are you a Muslim?

Most people would look at my lifestyle and views on islam and say that I wasn't. But yeah I was born a muslim and I do believe in god and that mohammed is a prophet but don't agree with the current direction islam is taking or the current interpretation of islamic texts.

I disagree that they are the cause of most problems. What percentage of Muslims attend Mardasses? A low percentage I would imagine. There are other extreme elements - don't forget Wahabisim in Saudi Arabia. Now there is a civilised, progressive, open minded bunch.

As for why i think that madressas are bad is because they are one of the spring boards of the most extreme sects in the islamic faith includinig wahabisim. Madrassas aren't a movement in islam its the arabic word for a school and in this context it means a place in which they can spread their corrupt interpretation of the islamic faith.

digitally-yours

madrassas i think are not serving the purpose they were intented for
they were built for the children of the poor who cant afford school

when russia invaded afghanistan
these madrassas were given a political drive by america and
they were fighting a full war on behalf of americans in afganistan in name of the religion "Islam"

once the war finished americans dissapeared from that region and left that region in the most difficult condition.Until they got a wakeup call on 11 september when the same thing what they created them self came on their doorstep they called it "terrorisim" no one has the precise defination.what in this world will be regarded as terrorisim

thats what happened there.
Madrassa is just a religious school.westren world should not look at it with extreme views.every one is not the same.Everyone know IRA is a terrorist organization and you see 10 downing street even bertie nogiciate with them

All i want to ask is y Double standards?????

r3boot

you are right the word madrassa does mean school but these days all they teach is one interpretation of islam and gives people the impression that any non-muslim is evil. I'm sure we all know that this is a very immature way of looking at things.

Also for a definition of terrorism I suggest you go buy a dictionary.

Madressas these days are owned and run by politically motivated extremists islamic sects which use them to brainwash people into submission.

marco murphy

Terrorism wont be defined very well in a dictionary.

digitally-yours

so far thedefination of this word is
"anything which is a threat to american interests is terrorisim "

r3boot

Poblachtach wrote:

Terrorism wont be defined very well in a dictionary.

i believe it would. its been around for about 200 years so I'm sure that peole have decided what is means

from wordorigins.com Terrorism

Terrorism is not simply a modern phenomenon. Rather, the word, along with terrorist, first appears in English in 1795 in reference to the Jacobins of France. They ruled France in what was called the Reign of Terror from 1793-94. By 1798, the term was being applied generally to anyone who attempted to achieve political goals through violence and intimidation.

The word is thought to have been coined by the Jacobins themselves, but the French terrorisme is not recorded until 1798. If the Jacobins did coin it, they are the only ones to have used it self-referentially. The term has always had negative connotations since then.

source

And the definition from dictionary.com The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

source

please reference your definiton of terrorisim digitally-yours.

marco murphy

digitally-yours wrote:

so far thedefination of this word is
"anything which is a threat to american interests is terrorisim "

Yes according to the media.

Hobbes

Kindly bring the thread back on track.

r3boot

Poblachtach wrote:

Yes according to the media.

Obviously CNN, skynews and al jazera were around long before 1795 when the term was first used.

Oh and to get back on topic can anyone give any reasons why madrassas in their current form are a good thing for mainstream non-sectarian muslims ? (I sure as hell can't think of any)

dathi1

Especially when they open one right across the road in the full gaze of White Friars St Church!

Hobbes

This thread is dancing a fine line. From now on we will be having valid sources and not "My best friend told me" or making claims without backing them up.

The term refers to "School". While there may be questionable schools it does not mean all such schools are as such.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrassa

netwhizkid

Originally Posted by Poblachtach
Kill 7 shias and you'll go to heaven.

I remember objecting strongly to this forum while the idea of it as in the "FORUMS" forum. now ye talk about killing people, this forum is sick and should closed down. Religious tolerance my a*se.

Frank Grimes

netwhizkid wrote:

I remember objecting strongly to this forum while the idea of it as in the "FORUMS" forum. now ye talk about killing people, this forum is sick and should closed down. Religious tolerance my a*se.

He's not advocating it, re-read his post.

marco murphy

netwhizkid wrote:

I remember objecting strongly to this forum while the idea of it as in the "FORUMS" forum. now ye talk about killing people, this forum is sick and should closed down. Religious tolerance my a*se.

Your funny.

Hobbes

Frank Grimes wrote:

He's not advocating it, re-read his post.

Exactly. That is not what he said at all. I recall saying from the forums post netwizkid would get a permenant ban, however I will let that pass providing you (netwizkid) can discuss your issues in a civil manner.

pickarooney

OT: How did you get the thread link to display right-to-left? Pretty cool.

Hobbes

pickarooney wrote:

OT: How did you get the thread link to display right-to-left? Pretty cool.

Arabic is right to left language. So the control code is probably interfering with the thread link.

Talliesin

netwhizkid wrote:

I remember objecting strongly to this forum while the idea of it as in the "FORUMS" forum. now ye talk about killing people, this forum is sick and should closed down. Religious tolerance my a*se.

I suspect you of deliberately mis-reading the post. But maybe you're just thick.

Consider yourself warned.

tonyj

Here's the quote;

Poblachtach wrote:

For those of your from Pakistan. A freind who is a shia says Madrassas are schools of ignorance.
Kill 7 shias and you'll go to heaven.

I can understand how people can mis-read this - I did the first time I read it. It starts off with his Shia friends claim that Madrassas are 'schools of ignorance'

And then, in a line all on its own, we have "Kill 7 shias and you'll go to heaven."

Which leaves it open to be taken out of context (and I assume it was meant in a different context rather than that of 'statement' ?)

marco murphy

Schools of Ignorance .. i.e Kill seven shias and you go to heaven.
What is so difficult about it. Either way.

r3boot

I was going to flame netwhizkids a** but decided against it.

It's his luck day.

luckat

Excuse me, may I ask a question?

I thought that madrassas were religious-based schools - kind of like the convent schools that Catholics run? Schools that teach all subjects, but base these subjects in a religious viewpoint, so that a virtuous approach to life is at the centre of one's way of dealing?

Am I wrong? Can anyone define madrassas, please? Without prejudice, just a straight explanation of what a madrassa is intended to be.

r3boot

luckat wrote:

Excuse me, may I ask a question?

I thought that madrassas were religious-based schools - kind of like the convent schools that Catholics run? Schools that teach all subjects, but base these subjects in a religious viewpoint, so that a virtuous approach to life is at the centre of one's way of dealing?

Am I wrong? Can anyone define madrassas, please? Without prejudice, just a straight explanation of what a madrassa is intended to be.

The word medrassa means school in arabic. I'm sure that at some point they were used for that but most of the ones you see today are usually politically motivated schools which teach one form of islam be it salafist, ikwan al muslimeen, etc. I have yet to see any medrassa that teaches the fundementals of interpretation of the quran and Sunnah without being partial to the point of view of the people who fund it.

The only subjects taught in these medrassas is religion and it's only one at the moment.

That being said I'm sure there are one or two places that do try and give a balanced non-sectarian view of things I just haven't heard of them yet.

Hobbes

I am going to ask again.. If you are making these accusations back them up with sources. If you don't I'm locking the thread.

r3boot

This isn't an accusation, it's my opinion based on what I have read and studied. and nothing I have said has not been said before.

however here is a relevant link none the less.

tonyj

I think backing up the "Kill 7 shias and you'll go to heaven" accusation would be quite important to this discussion.

marco murphy

r3boot wrote:

The word medrassa means school in arabic. I'm sure that at some point they were used for that but most of the ones you see today are usually politically motivated schools which teach one form of islam be it salafist, ikwan al muslimeen, etc. I have yet to see any medrassa that teaches the fundementals of interpretation of the quran and Sunnah without being partial to the point of view of the people who fund it.

The only subjects taught in these medrassas is religion and it's only one at the moment.

That being said I'm sure there are one or two places that do try and give a balanced non-sectarian view of things I just haven't heard of them yet.

I agree completely. Unless anyone wants to come to afghanistan with me i cant back it up.

tonyj

Poblachtach wrote:

I agree completely. Unless anyone wants to come to afghanistan with me i cant back it up.

I'm sure eye-witness accounts from Afghanistan would be fine.

When were you in Afghanistan, and what did you see there?

tonyinuae

tonyj, unless Poblachtach is having a laugh, I think what he said indicates he's PLANNING to visit Afghanistan!

Hobbes

Poblachtach wrote:

I agree completely. Unless anyone wants to come to afghanistan with me i cant back it up.

If you can't back up don't post it. If someone tells you a story it is up to you to research it before spreading it as gossip.

R3boot posted a link, and tbh I only skimmed over it (can't be bothered to research more how much is correct or not). I do know that from a brief google that a number of Madrassas are actually normal schools. Labelling them as breeding grounds for terrorists does nothing to help these schools, in much the same way as labelling all muslims terrorists.

Which is why when your applying labels, make sure you clearly define.

marco murphy

I never said they were. Iam sure thats the proper use for them - non sectarian education. I can't back this up at all. But if we were to back up everything we say then i wouldnt be posting much.

Talliesin

Hobbes wrote:

I do know that from a brief google that a number of Madrassas are actually normal schools. Labelling them as breeding grounds for terrorists does nothing to help these schools, in much the same way as labelling all muslims terrorists.

That's the impression I got from the recent reports about the legislation proposed in Pakistan to monitor their funding and hence make it harder for violent groups to fund them.

Is there anyone who can say more on this topic from experience (whether first-hand, or at least deeper research than reading a small number of web pages as I have). Are some Madrassas giving others a bad name unfairly?

philologos

well in Pakistan I believe that they are registering these Madrassas and that this will help to seperate what are seen as extremist madrassas and the legitimate ones. This will help keep Pakistans education away from extremist teachings and I think this is a good and neccessary move

bug

I walk by a Madrass every day.
It never seems to be open and the shutters are always down, yet I see one man appearing every-so-often in the evening from the door.
In the morning between 8 and 10 am no children or teenagers attend or enter and also the only time I have seen the front door open in the past six years of this madrass being open (three years whilst I was living across the road from it) was one evening during Ramadan. There was nothing in there except teenagers, all men. They seemed to be praying alright, but there was nothing else in there, it was an empty room. The door was shut hastily when it occured that it was obvious I was watching.

I would also like to voice my pure opinon, that asking for back up links to support opinions on the definition of a madrass is ridiculous. We know that madrass means "school" in arabic but I think the question being asked is regarding functionality within societies and countries. In which case the only thing you can do is ask people who have been attendant to madrassas. ie first hand accounts.

Blub2k4

Are these the places generally funded by Al-Saud?
I know they tend to fund mosques worldwide hence the spread of wahhabism but is the madarassa then behind this?

marco murphy

yes bug i agree with your last sentence there, i was told accounts from a freind of mine are no good but whos to say wikipedia are correct?

Hobbes

Poblachtach wrote:

yes bug i agree with your last sentence there, i was told accounts from a freind of mine are no good but whos to say wikipedia are correct?

wikipedia is open source. If you don't agree with it you personally can change it. However it gets reviewed by a large number of people so your generally required to back up what you say with actual facts and not hearsay.

That is not to say your friend is wrong, but it is hardly a viable source of information.