Icky little hand

DapperGent

I've been thinking about this hand a good bit and I still can't come up with an optimal way of playing it. About half the field is gone in a reasonably large buyin live tournament I have an almost average stack of 12000 though not exactly comfortable with the blinds at 300-600.

I'm in the big blind with AhKh. UTG is table chip leader with about 23000, the button has about 16000.

UTG limps for 600. - He's the solidest player at the table and this limp could really mean any number of things but I think it means he's pretty strong basically pairs 77-AA and AQ. I think he'd fold AJ and most suited connectors from UTG but honestly I'm not sure. So I think it's likely he has a pair but I'm not sure.

It's folded round to the button who makes it 2500 to go. I had considered him tight and solid before but a couple of hands previously he raised AJ UTG and called an reasonable sized all in with it (and won) so I'm not so sure anymore. In general though he always has a hand, he definatly has something here it could be AQ it could be AA. The small blind folds and I'm in what I considered to be a tight fúcking spot.

Options:
1 Fold. I only briefly considered this but perhaps I should have given it a bit more thought.

2. Call. I felt I couldn't do this. The only hands the UTG isn't flat calling with are the ones he's going over the top with. If I flat call he doesn't even need a great hand to reraise, if he calls I'm play the flop out of position against two players with fúck all information.

3. Min raise. The trouble with this is that it's 5000 out of a stack of 12000. I'm essentially pot commited no matter whether both raise or not. If they both push over my raise I'm calling for flush or straight chances or in the hopes that I'm up against JJ and QQ which is highly unlikley.

4 Push. I don't like this either. I have no idea what UTG has though I think a push folds most of his range especially given that it's a reraise. This lets me take it in heads up against the button though he could easily have me dominated. I'm only getting called by hands that beat me (or AK) never by a hand that I dominate. I could get a great scenario where I'm in a race with two underpairs to triple up but I'm not sure that's likely enough on a risk/reward basis.

Essentially I thought at the time that that the action indicated somewhere I was up against JJ-AA or AK. I thought UTG would fold JJ and worse the button would insta call with JJ and probably with TT.

In the end I pushed bacuase I couldn't think of anything else to do, though I only spent a few extra seconds on it. Any thoughts?

Hectorjelly

Calling and min raising are out of the question, so its either all in or fold. Utgs limp would scare me a bit, but if I thought there was a good chance he doesnt have AA or KK I would move in. The button previously raised and called a reraise with AJ so I think there is a good chance you have him dominated. If utg folds and he calls with JJ then its not a disastor. You are just at the point of the game where you need to build a stack or bust out and go home.

NickyOD

You only have 20BBs so you don't really have any room to manoeuvre. Min raising would be horrible and making a standard reraise would be almost as bad since you'll pot commit yourself even if you miss the flop.

All in preflop is the only move here. You want to see 5 cards and you shouldn't be afraid of racing. Folding is beyond weak. If you walk into AA/KK or lose your race shrug and move on.

mewso

Personally I don't think a fold is ultra weak at all. If you think you may be behind and you think both players will call your all-in then it doesn't look so good to me. UTG has shown strength. The raiser has called an all-in with AJ before so you could end up racing against 2 players. I would have no problem folding this hand. You can make the same move the next hand with 72o if you really are worried about being short stacked but I think your stack is fine at the moment and can stand to lose 600 without you needing to panic.

NickyOD

musician wrote:

Personally I don't think a fold is ultra weak at all. If you think you may be behind and you think both players will call your all-in then it doesn't look so good to me. UTG has shown strength. The raiser has called an all-in with AJ before so you could end up racing against 2 players. I would have no problem folding this hand. You can make the same move the next hand with 72o if you really are worried about being short stacked but I think your stack is fine at the moment and can stand to lose 600 without you needing to panic.

The one and only time I played the Fitz 270, AK was the best hand I saw in the whole tournament. Folding it when you have 20BBs left is absolutely terrible unless its late in the tournament and everyone is short. I had 3900 left at the 100/200 level. UTG made it 500 to go and I pushed in MP. McCloskey called behind with QQ and UTG folded. I rivered a King to double through. That got me to the last 3 tables but the best hand I saw after that was a pair of 2s. There's no way I'd be waiting around for a better oportunity here. There's only one way to play AK in this spot IMO.

mewso

Nicky I know where you're coming from. I'm saying what I would do. I understand the arguement for pushing just thought I'd weigh in with my opinion. I would push very easily against one player but if there is a chance both will call I have to consider folding.
It's a very common strategy stated here alot. To win you have to make moves like this. I agree but there will be better opportunities. Hitting your king was quite fortunate. Hitting a 7 with 72o would also be fortunate. I prefer to take the lead when I'm making a move.

Lafortezza

Definite push. If you're all-in against QQ and TT then you've a reasonable change to triple through, if UTG folds and button calls with Ax, happy days. Worst case is that one of the players has AA/KK but it's one you probably have to take.

results?

Tourneque

I agree. I would've pushed too.

You can't call here. If you do, you are basically hoping for UTG not to reraise and for you to hit the flop hard. What if UTG flat calls ? You're out of position and if you hit an A or K .. what do you do ? if you feel strongly enough that you've the best hand then you push the remainder in but you could've opened the door for draws or you could be drawing very thin.

I think you made the right play by trying to isolate the button who you could easily be dominating - not to mention he could just be on a steal.

Obviously if you really think UTG has KK/AA then the case for folding is very strong.

But he's a decent player and I think alot of players will limp with JJ from that position rather than risk a double up at this stage.

What do you think your table image was and were you happy to race with an underpair ?

Hectorjelly

Results?

Tourneque

Hector,

The 'geeah issue' - is that a 2+2 thing or something ?

Hectorjelly

No, it was a slow burning feud at the start that began over on the 1808 forum. Its kind of embaressing but Ive always wanted a mortal enemy.

NickyOD

nvm. wrong thread. I'm an ass.

DapperGent

Results: After I pushed UTG took an age to fold, as soon as he started thinking I knew it was JJ or TT and so was happy with either action in a way. I dunno what took him so long to fold. Unfortunately the button had bullets and made a very loose call for value. I wasn't surprised as I thought there was a very good chance one of them had AA/KK though I found it quite difficult to quantify that chance.

As an aside Amp is rigged. A typical Fitz "action flop" of KJx came down which if I'd played it any slower would have had all my chips in the middle then anyway. UTG wasn't happy as he would have hit a set of Jacks apparently, I believed him.

No miracle turn or rivers popped up to save me.