The taxman

corblimey

While I'm a long way away from it, there must be some people on this board who are making a nice chunk of change from poker. My question is what's the official word on poker earnings and tax: are they subject to tax or dirt or anything like that?

ocallagh

I'm fairly sure it's not taxable..

Dub13

No gambling income in this country is taxable,if they taxed you on it then you could claim any lost money back...you could even claim expenses incurred on the way eg hotel.

Imagen booking into the Merrion Hotel before you played the freeroll....

azzeretti

Dub13 wrote:

you could even claim expenses incurred on the way eg hotel.

Please explain
So if I go to Leopardstown on the Luas and win a couple of races I can claim my Luas fair back? What about the guys who paid for a flight to vegas and won a few dollars, can they right the flight cost off at the and of the tax year????
Unsure about this one!

Dub13

azzeretti wrote:

Please explain

If you were a poker pro this would become your business,so just like any business man can get back his expense's you could also.you could have preparation etc deducted from your income income tax liability

azzeretti

Right. So a poker pro has to get register as a business or self employed person first? seems a bit odd.....
Anyway, its getting off topic a bit.....I was just curious......thanks.

Dub13

azzeretti wrote:

Right. So a poker pro has to get register as a business or self employed person first? seems a bit odd.....
.

No....as at the moment any winnings are not taxable.What I was trying to say was if poker winnings were subject to tax then you could go down the self employed route.

I guess the government are aware that there are a lot more losers out there than winners.

Ollieboy

Just a quick note, but if you claim expense, than the income would be liable to tax. In Ireland, income from gambling is exempt. There use to be a tax of 10 % on gambling income, but Charlie got rid of this a couple of years ago, due to online gambling. But if you won the WSOP in the states, you would pay tax of around 30%, on your winnings as your not a US citzen. I think this is correct, but ask Andy Black. But as far as I know, nobody pays tax on poker income in Ireland.

Just a different point, but that lady in Limerick, if she gave her family 10 million each, they would have to pay gift tax on it, which would be around 40%, she should include her family in a synicated when she won it to avoid tax. But she didnt pay tax on the winnings.

Waylander

azzeretti wrote:

Please explain
So if I go to Leopardstown on the Luas and win a couple of races I can claim my Luas fair back? What about the guys who paid for a flight to vegas and won a few dollars, can they right the flight cost off at the and of the tax year????
Unsure about this one!

You don't pay tax on winnings at the races. You pay a small levy on the original bet, but that is your maximum exposure to the taxman. As you do not pay taxes you cannot claim expenses against them. Also the guy who won in Vegas does not pay taxes.

ocallagh

you cannot claim expenses, dub13 never said you could!!

mewso

Lovely another surreal thread. Do some people just ignore every second post or something?

NickyOD

There is no tax on gambling earnings, but I tihnk you can still be stung for capital gains tax depending on how much goes into your bank account.

Lafortezza

That would have to be a massive figure though right? For the capital gains tax?

Ollieboy

There's no capital gains tax on winnings, thats only if you sell and asset.

I read that Andy paid tax on his winnings and been over there, I was told you would be tax on large winning. The casino deducts the tax as far as I know.

ollyk1

Captial gains tax on what exactly?? It's not like you bought a property and it increased in value.

Dirt tax is payable on all interest earned in a bank account or alternative investment (equities, bonds etc.) but this is only payable on the interest earned (25% of the interest). You can avoid this by investing in a gross roll-up product like a pension plan or by doing your stock market investment by betting using spread companies as once again there is no tax on earnings from betting/gambling for Irish tax residents.

There are plenty of people making millions (more than any meagre poker winnings) using contracts for difference (which are officially classed as a bet) and paying no income tax. They do pay stamp duty of 1-2% on the contract but nothing else - why would poker be any different??

Edit:

Andy Black got/will get all the tax back as any J1 visa student knows we have a tax agreement with the US and following completion of the relevant forms he will be taxed on his winnings in Ireland at 0%. Not as in the US at 30%. If was a US tax resident then he'd have to pay 30% of his net winnings for the year - but I'm sure he's have been very unlucky in cash games when he spoke to the IRS in those circumstances (this is achieved by asking tourists in Vegas for their recipts for purchasing chips I believe....)

bmc

I investigated this a while back. The thread should be on the board somewhere.

My conclusion was (as has been said already) that there is no tax lilability on gambling wins.

What confused me was the tax you pay in a bookies. It seems that a bet in the bookies has a specific government levy on it similar to the levy on cigarettes or alcohol.

Anyway back to the point - no, there is no tax liability.

shaydy

ollyk1 wrote:

Andy Black got/will get all the tax back as any J1 visa student knows we have a tax agreement with the US and following completion of the relevant forms he will be taxed on his winnings in Ireland at 0%. Not as in the US at 30%. If was a US tax resident then he'd have to pay 30% of his net winnings for the year - but I'm sure he's have been very unlucky in cash games when he spoke to the IRS in those circumstances (this is achieved by asking tourists in Vegas for their recipts for purchasing chips I believe....)

Yes, as far as I know if you fill out some form before going over and shpw it to the casino then you will not have to pay the 30% up front. Harry Demetriou posted a message about it on the Hendon Mobs site a long time ago as a tip for players heading over.

bohsman

bmc wrote:

I investigated this a while back. The thread should be on the board somewhere.

My conclusion was (as has been said already) that there is no tax lilability on gambling wins.

What confused me was the tax you pay in a bookies. It seems that a bet in the bookies has a specific government levy on it similar to the levy on cigarettes or alcohol.

Anyway back to the point - no, there is no tax liability.

Bets in bookies has a 3% Tax but AFAIK only 1% is for the government, 1% is for horsebreeders and 1% for something similar

Dub13

bohsman wrote:

Bets in bookies has a 3% Tax but AFAIK only 1% is for the government, 1% is for horsebreeders and 1% for something similar

Most of the bookies in the city center wave this charge

Hitman Actual

bmc wrote:

I investigated this a while back. The thread should be on the board somewhere.

My conclusion was (as has been said already) that there is no tax lilability on gambling wins.

What confused me was the tax you pay in a bookies. It seems that a bet in the bookies has a specific government levy on it similar to the levy on cigarettes or alcohol.

Anyway back to the point - no, there is no tax liability.

I remember that thread, and another point brought up was that you should keep records of your winnings for the year, the reason being that lodging large sums of money into a bank account could arouse the suspicion of the taxman. I think Devore made the comment that a lodgement of 5K+ was the trigger level (he wrote software for a bank, or something like that??).

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Was talking to someone who has won a few grand on live poker games in recent weeks. Last week he went into the bank to lodge the money and they wouldn't let him because he didn't have receipts to show where he got the money from!

p.s. Reading Al Alvarez's book "The Biggest Game in Town" last night. He was saying (although it could be a bit dated), that only winnings are taxed in the US. The money you lose cannot be set against winnings to reduce your tax bill.

Waylander

Was it the monk you were talking to? Never heard of a bank refusingto take money before.

RoundTower

Roundtower2 wrote:

Was talking to someone who has won a few grand on live poker games in recent weeks. Last week he went into the bank to lodge the money and they wouldn't let him because he didn't have receipts to show where he got the money from!

If you want to lodge a large amount of cash, AIB will tell you "Because it's a large amount I have to ask where you got the money from." They will not lodge the money unless you answer them. It's fine to say "I won it playing cards" or "I sold my car" or "It was a birthday present", I don't believe they even record what you tell them.

azzeretti

yeah, for money laundering reasons a bank is entitiled ask as you to prove the source of your deposit over a certain amount, i thinks it about 5k.