Self taught vs lessons

Yv

Out of curiosity, how many of the posters here are self-taught & how many are trained, ie took lessons? What do you think are the benefits of both methods? Say what instrument you play & how long you've been playing as well - or if you started off self-taught for a year or two, then got lessons to help improve.

Personally I'm self-taught in bass & guitar & piano (started about 3 years ago) but I'm hoping to take up cello & get lessons for that, & am also considering piano lessons. I think self-tuition is good insofar as you progress at your own pace, can learn whatever pieces you want & don't have to learn the boring side; however I think lessons give a more thorough education & leave you with a stronger technical ability, if you can deal with learning all those scales Also, motivation when teaching myself has become a major issue, in a negative way

So, are you self-taught, or did you get lessons? & which do you think is better?

John

I'm mainly self-taught with some advise from some more knowledgable friends. Being self-taught makes you feel great about yourself but I learned lots of bad habits which I'm only getting out of now.

fortysixand2

I've only gotten teh gee-tarr so far I got lessons for the absolute basics of technique, and by that I just mean six chords and how to strum, and EVERYTHING else I know I've taught myself, theory and all. Hoping to take some piano lessons soon, but that's another thing I'll probably handle the same way - get the basics down, some simple arpeggios and the like, and work on it myself from there . . .

Baggio

I can see both sides,
.......am self taught myself, and learned by ear and attention to WHAT gear drummers were using and basicaly homing in exactly when they hit what, and taking the time to figure their kits out,,more or less...seems a long time ago since i started all that. I find Im a feel player, I will often play my own foot work over a piece by another , but will often throw someting else over this part or that, if I think it feels right wether it be mathematically perfect or not is an argument - trick is of course while doing that NOT to weaken the integrity of the part or it's genuine feel. Having said that...lessons would have given me a dictionary of terms that i just dont have, times etc would be easy to state ..he/she's playing this or that,,I dont have that but i know what Im hearing/feeling as I play just cant really explain it to others...I seem to come up with my own "Baggio's DIY of drumming terms!" when describing this fill or that
So lessons are always a goood thing, but be warned too - they can lead to a rigidity and stiffness in playing where in yer mind yer afraid to wonder off a true line, coz yer mental musical clock is saying stick with the beat and dont go over there...so there are pro's and cons to both really. Having said that - I think in many ways an ear for music mixed with a natural flair in drumming anyway will nearly always produce more exciting dynamic drumming, rather than a taught person, but then again there's always exceptions.

ciao' amigos...Baggio....

jcoote

i'm self taught and because of that have a unique style and idea about what interesting guitar playing is... on the other hand i am only catching up now after 3 years with lead guitar playing and therory because i spent a lot of time on effects rather than technique so there's 2 sides of the coin i suppose

Dave

I've been playing for nearly 3 years now. Totally self taught, I need lessons though. I've no understanding of music theory or the like and I don't have the discipline to sit down and just do the boring scales. I would imagine teaching yourself the basics and then getting lessons would be the best way to do it.

Dr. Loon

Self taught... drums. What Baggio said. I wish I knew all the time signatures and how to explain beats, but I can't. I go for feel also. I was thinking of going for lessons as I don't have anywhere to practice on the kit, so the only time I practice is when the band rehearses. Other than that I practice in my head, which is strange but seems to work relatively well.

Mr. CooL ICE

Self taught bassist. Ive been playing for 4 years, but i reckon a trained bassist of 2-2.5 years would probably be around the same as me. It has lots of advantages over being trained in terms of fun; You learn at your own pace and learn what you want, when you want.

I decided not to get lessons, simply because i did piano lessons when i started listening to metallica at the tender age of 11, and was made do beethoven and a ton of terrible stuff i had no interest in, making me hate the instrument, so i didnt want the same to happen to playing bass.

Playing bass is the only thing i havent given up; Ive given up all sports and hobbies that ive had, but ive never grown tired of playing bass, which i think is thanks to being self-taught. My technique is terrible in places (especially dynamics), so after 4 years, learning simple scales and finger exercises still raises a challenge, despite being able to play lots of children of bodom and iron maiden galloping bass lines.

Mr. Presentable

Currently trying to learn guitar. Taking five 30 minute lessons then intending to work the rest out myself. TBH, I think two lessons were probably enough to give me basic chords and strumming technique, but paid for five so I'll do the other three.

LundiMardi

I’ve been playing 4.5 years, and I’ve been going to lessons for 6 weeks I play guitar.

My teacher has told me my technique excellent, I think the word he used was ‘’gorgeous’’, that’s one hell of a confidence booster let me tell ya! So to really improve myself I just have to learn my theory because I’m a lead guitarist and we just can’t get by without theory, we can try, but we’re fooling ourselves tbh.

Before I started lessons, I felt the same as any other self taught guitarists, can’t learn scales because they were boring etc. Let me tell you, scales are boring if you’re just playing them over and over and over and over and so on, what the **** is the point in that?

The key is to learn scales etc in a practical context, don’t just sit there playing the same scale in the same position and using the same shape, use your imagination, learn your scales all over the fret board using different shapes, but don’t keep repeating yourself, when you learn them, don’t keep playing them, start using them in a practical situation.

For instance,

Start with the major scale, pick a key, let’s just say ‘A’ as an example, pick 4 chords in the key of A, let’s say Dmaj, Bmin, F#min, Emaj. Record yourself playing these chords (if you can record of course) in any kind of progression you wish. Once that’s done, improvise over it using you’re A major scale, use as much of the fretboard as you can and the shapes that you know, it’s a lot of fun being able to improvise and staying in key when before hand you couldn’t, you’d always get lost and go out of key eventually. If you want to spice things up then stick in a key change, pick another key, pick other chords, record all of the above and then improvise over it again and so on…

This is just a small example of how learning theory can be as much fun as you want, plus it’s productive, the example above could turn into a half decent song. Sure, after almost every lesson I have I usually always have a song in my head that I want to write when I get home using the theory I’ve learned in the lesson.

Of course there are more than scales, but the same thing applies to practically everything...

Moral of the story, if you find theory boring, then get a teacher who can show you how to put it into practice and have fun doing it. DON’T learn from a book, they are impractical and will fill your head with crap that is not really of huge importance, thus confusing you even more.

Anyway, sorry about the long post, I’m just sooooo bored right now.

Mutant_Fruit

It really depends on what you're going for. I took up guitar half way through transition year. I wanted to do it for leaving cert music. Therefore, i needed lessons. I didn't want to have to self-teach myself everything from the ground up within the two years i had before i had to play for 50% of my music grade

Also, i was going for a different style to the standard. I did classical pieces/odd pieces as opposed to your classic rock song. Personally, i think anyone can teach themselves guitar, but you'll go faster with a good teacher. I had a 1v1 lesson with my teacher, which meant he could push me as fast as he felt i could go, and he did.

Of course, you could argue that no-one is self-thought. We all learned off someone :P The one trick that i was never told (til a friend happened to say it when he was pissed with how inaccurate my plec-picking was) was that if you rested the side of your hand on the bridge you could be a lot more accurate with your picking. That alone made a huge difference to my accuracy. Previously i was moving the whole hand up and down whenever i wanted to pick a different string with a plec.

Theres two things i regret though. 1) My teacher didn't force me to use a plec, and now i regret using my fingers so much in the beginning. I used to finger pick pretty much everything. This meant my picking was slower (if i was picking the same string) and my accuracy with a plec was ****.

For the last few months i've made a conscious effort to use a plec for everything, and i know i'm getting better at it now. I just wish someone made me use it from the beginning. Its much easier to learn to fingerpick well then use a plec well.

EDIT: (to LundiMardi ) Who's your teacher and where is he based? I'm looking for a new teacher. The old one only did up to intermediate. You may want to PM as opposed to sticking his details on the net

LundiMardi

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

EDIT: (to LundiMardi ) Who's your teacher and where is he based? I'm looking for a new teacher. The old one only did up to intermediate. You may want to PM as opposed to sticking his details on the net

his details are already on the net

www.thomasbrunkard.com

He's south dublin, not too far from town.

Mutant_Fruit

Excellant! I'm south dublin myself. I fired off an email, so hopefully he'll get back to me soon. I'll give him a shot and see if he suits my needs. (that sounds so dirty ).

Whereabouts exactly is he based? Can't see it on his site.

Karl Hungus

I've been going back and forth between learning by myself, and getting some lessons. I honestly think that lessons are invaluable, and they've really helped me a lot, but at the same time, I've been making up my own excersizes and such that have also been a huge help aswell.

I do need to learn some theory now anyway.

LundiMardi

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

Excellant! I'm south dublin myself. I fired off an email, so hopefully he'll get back to me soon. I'll give him a shot and see if he suits my needs. (that sounds so dirty ).

Whereabouts exactly is he based? Can't see it on his site.

Well I don't want to give his address away or anything, but he's around the Rialto area and fairly close to Phoenix park.

Mutant_Fruit

That barely counts as southside :P Twould be a fair old trek getting over there... i hope he's worth it :P

Dave H

As far as I know, Tom gives lessons in his house, which is in Kilmainham.

Waltons

I'm a drummer. I started by taking lessons as my parents refused to get me a kit unless I'd taken lessons for a few months. Those lessons were basically a grounding so I don't think I got anything from those that I wouldn't have achieved at home with a bit of dedication. I continued to get lessons from a few teachers because, like Mutant Fruit, I took up my instrument in Transition Year with an aim of playing it for Leaving Cert music.
After a term in Waltons I didn't really like the place so I left. In hindsight it wasn't that he was a bad teacher; I was just to feckin immature to sit down and play through everything he was giving me. The intervening space between when I left Waltons and got a new teacher (My music teacher's son) was pretty uneventful in terms of me teaching myself. It wasn't until after I left my third teacher that I started in earnest to actually make a dedicated effort to teach myself rudiments and learn new skills rather than just playing things I already knew on my kit.

I've probably picked up some bad habits as regards to grip and whatnot and I'm considering going back to lessons soon or maybe heading to the Drum Corps. I think I've been lucky with teachers (especially my first teacher who put me straight on a kit rather than sitting at a snare drum for several months) in that it hasn't made me any more rigid a player. As for playing at home the practise pad has been absoultely invaluable.

BizzyC

I've done a mix, over the past 3 years....

Spent a year working away myself, but felt my progress slowing, so I took some lessons.
I see the lessons as a good way to give you new ideas, and grounding.
I'll usually take some lessons, learn a few new ideas etc, and work away at them myself for a while, then go back for more.

[edit] I play the Drums btw..

Giblet

I've been playing over 7 years now, never had a lesson. I was a really competitive bastard so any time I saw someone who was better than me I would work hard to learn everything they know and become better than they were. I usually played the hardest stuff I could find which used the weirdest sounds. I listened to Jonny Greenwood alot starting out, so I was into that frantic juxtaposition of chords and sounds. I think the only real problems with my playing is the fact that I try too many styles and don't master any of them. That would be boring anyway

I think the best thing any Musician can do is play with other Musicians and mess around with improv. We did a bit of live improv when we were starting out (my band that is). You learn a lot.

his dudeness

I started taking lessons after about 3 months of having my first guitar. Now, about 8 years later, I've been teaching at that same school for almost 3 years.

My opinion on the matter is that the guitar has become too advanced an instrument to be completely accessable without any outside help. Anyone self-taught gets the info from books, the net or friends anyway. So why not just standardise that process into one lesson a week with a professional who can show you the most efficiant and most benificial way of doing things?

Essentially, if you have a teacher (at least one with a solid method or tradition, which is unfortunately rare) then you wont fall victim to the cardinal errors: chords lacking proper tone, strumming hand not moving solidly to the downbeat, non-existent dynamics, overplaying and riff recycling (just to name a few). Furthermore, a proper teacher will be able to offer you a road which you can go down as far as you want (it'll only depend on your practice and determination).

I suppose I'd sum it up this way. Being taught guitar isn't about learning loads of scales, it's about being kicked in the ass. It's about being stopped, against your will, for making a mistake and having to start the piece again, this time doing it without that mistake. It's about being frustrated, yet despite that not giving up, working through it and then waking up one day only to discover that you're able to do what you were trying to do. Few people have the discapline to do this all themselves (because we generally don't like to frustrate ourselves!). Sure, I even make a point of still taking lessons from my original teacher. There is no end to what you can learn, and if you're going to put in the effort then you may as well learn it properly.

BossArky

Piano & Saxophone lessons, which proved handy for working out the guitar myself.

Don't sit around strumming chords all day, I don't know how many people seem to reach this plato and never progress from it. Learn the scales, have an understanding of modes, learn a few solos... you should then have opened your mind up to what else there is.

I had a band in secondary school, playing Metallica and stuff like this was an excellent way to progress quickly, espeically as the other guitarist at the time was playing longer and could give hints and tips.

Last weekend I sat down with the intention of learning "Peace Sells", (an early Megadeth album) from start to finish, got the first song "Wake up dead" done in 2 days... so many riffs in there that you cannot help but learn. Obviosuly this style of playing is not for everyones taste... but the combination of rhythm co-ordination between picking and fretting, plus the solos, palm-muting vs deading, harmonies, etc, etc make for a good lesson.

Best way to learn is play the music you like with friends.

Jesus Trash Can

I was playing too much play station about 2 years ago and then I said to hell with this if I had a piano I could teach myself how to play by using up my time doing that. So I bought a piano (a big step when your only a slip of a 38 year old!) Twelve months later I could play Beathoven's Fur Elise, Moonlight Sonata, Radiohead's Karma Police, and a few more, despite the fact that I couldn't read music. I recently went for lessons out of curiosity, and she told me the Fur Elise piece was level 6 or something. Problem is I find lessons a drag and find it hard to practice structured exercises. So for me, self taught is more fun and also makes better progress in the short term at least.

nobodythere

I think it's fairly dependant on the kind of music you listen to when you start off playing. If the music you listen to is bollox hard then you'll have a lot of catching up to do by being self taught and as such will either fail completely or get to a really good level. If the music you enjoy isn't that hard, then you'd benefit from some lessons with a good teacher to learn faster.

Personally I think jazz sounds shít on guitar and I'm SO sick of screaming pentatonic solo's, so I probbably won't expand my guitar abilities much farther. I'm listening to a lot of jazz piano but might need lessons cos that stuff is a bitch to even figure out, let alone play.

his dudeness

grasshopa wrote:

Personally I think jazz sounds shít on guitar and I'm SO sick of screaming pentatonic solo's, so I probbably won't expand my guitar abilities much farther.

You're missing out a fairly big chunk in the middle there. Moving off pentatonics doesn't mean going straight into jazz.

nobodythere

Oh no pentatonics and guitar-jazz were two seperate things there! I just don't like the sound of fast jazz runs and jazz in general on guitar, e.g. Wes Montgomery. Not for me. I do love the piano-sax jazz stuff.

Yv

I think one of the best ways to get good at playing is to join a band, no matter what kind of music you're into. Gives you motivation. I'm getting a bit frustrated with myself for not pushing myself - I know lessons should stop that since the teacher would push me but I've had bad experiences with violin lessons which gives a bit of a mental block. I've a piano in my bedroom & I haven't played that in over a month. I'm in a band but I've become too comfortable, I don't practice bass anymore because I'm "good enough" for that band. I'm trying out for another one soon with people who are over 5 yrs older than me tho so that should help.

I wish there was a music school like Walton's in Galway, with a big premises & room to practice & an instrument rental scheme... Maybe I'll commute

dimerocks

i a mself taight but i badly want to start learning theory.i think you need a bit of both to be honest and they are equally sas important.being self taught makes you more approachably as a musician.i find many classically trained people are so far up their own arses.

NotMe

I'm playing guitar nearly 3 years now.. self taught. TBH I haven't learned anything new in the last year really. I was only playing about once a week so I've decided to give it a rest for a while. I started playing drums about 3 weeks ago, teaching myself with the help of a DVD and I love it. I haven't given up on guitar though.

phantom_lord

I think a mixture is best....but mose self teaching than outside help.

phantom_lord

I think a mixture is best....but more self teaching than outside help.

JackKelly

i think it depends on the instrument.

Many (most?) excellent guitarists have taught themselves while most great pianists have had to be taught from an early age.

Eoin Madsen

Put learned theory aside completely, in my experience - both personally and with the multitude of musicians that have come though my studio in the last 3 years - people who are self-taught invariably suffer from bad technique. Generally it manifests in poor timing, and frequently in a lack of ability to objectively assess their playing.

I don't think a "combination" really makes sense as a concept - you're either self-taught, or you get lessons as well. It's pretty hard to learn exclusively from lessons and not at all on your own unless you have no interest in what you're learning.

Gizmodeon

I've been playin the drums for 3/4 years now, I tried the self taught thing, but it wasnt getting me very far. I did 2 terms in waltons rock jazz drum kit, and since then I've improved so much!
The best way is to get some lessons at first, so you get the hang of all the basics, learn them properly, and the rest is not as hard.
Being self thaught is ok too, I know many drummer who are wicked on the drums, without any lessons.
The best way to improve on the drums is to practice with a band, or guitarist on a constant basis

Jesus Trash Can

dimerocks wrote:

i a mself taight but i badly want to start learning theory.i think you need a bit of both to be honest and they are equally sas important.being self taught makes you more approachably as a musician.i find many classically trained people are so far up their own arses.

Yeah, classical training takes the individuality out of the less gifted aswell...''just sit there and play what you see, do not digress!''

tj-music.com

I am mainly self taught but when I went to a professional recording studio for the first time I was literally ****ed because I didnt really know what I was playing.

I had some harmony lessons and vocal lessons later on.

Now 25 years into my career I collaborated a lot with other musicians and the ability to improvise always ouweight the ability to read notes and all that.

Jesus Trash Can

tj-music.com wrote:

I am mainly self taught but when I went to a professional recording studio for the first time I was literally ****ed because I didnt really know what I was playing.

I had some harmony lessons and vocal lessons later on.

Now 25 years into my career I collaborated a lot with other musicians and the ability to improvise always ouweight the ability to read notes and all that.

I find that very reasuring, I get a bit intimidated by the technical know how people...

druids girl

I'm a mixed bag, when I was a child went to piano lessons- but didn't like the teacher she was very snooty, so instead my Gran taught me the extreme basics as in 2 lessons before she had a stroke, and that was the end of that, I then taught myself the piano. However I was also interested in singing, and took lessons in that and had my voice trained - mezzo soprano - when I was in my late teens. Years have gone by (too many to mention) but I think if you want to express yourself in music nobody but you can delve in to your inner self and let the emotions flow. I actually prefer the basics taught and from there......... well it's up to you. Look at Vanessa Mae, the Edge etc, they have the basics but have turned their talent to become more personal and it makes fantastic music!