Post Lord of The Rings Catchphrases here!

shacko

Lets get contrversioul was hitler right in principle

Drapper

lets learn how to spell first.....................

answer:- NO

simu

Wow. You are such a genius, OP.

stevenmu

Erm, no. That's not to say that every thing he ever did or said was wrong, but the main ones were. I can't see any possible justification for the holocost or for invading all the countries that he did.

Prior Of Taize

in his own mind he was. thats all that mattered to him. the way he went about it was the controversial part...

Deadwing

He was just an underachiever

Femelade

was he right in doing what?
are u serious like?

shacko

The reason I ask is I was watching the news at lunch time with a friend of mine When a segment can on about the Israelis Treatment of The Palestine's. Which Is a thundering Disgrace. MY mate commented that the only reason the Americans let Israel away with it is because of the power of Jewish Lobbies in America. Which after some careful Thought I had to agree with. But I do not believe that this warrants mass extermination

hawkmoon269

shacko wrote:

The reason I ask is I was watching the news at lunch time with a friend of mine When a segment can on about the Israelis Treatment of The Palestine's. Which Is a thundering Disgrace. MY mate commented that the only reason the Americans let Israel away with it is because of the power of Jewish Lobbies in America. Which after some careful Thought I had to agree with. But I do not believe that this warrants mass extermination

Bloody hell. :mad:

PiE

Hitler had the right idea, he was just an underachiever.

Edit: Beaten to it

20 Times 20 Times

shacko wrote:

Lets get contrversioul was hitler right in principle

Im insulted that you even brought this question up and feel that the board would more then liekly be better off without your imput . The Fact that you ask this question insults many of our members here which i also find very insulting

zAbbo

stevenmu wrote:

Erm, no. That's not to say that every thing he ever did or said was wrong, but the main ones were. I can't see any possible justification for the holocost or for invading all the countries that he did.

And you'd think there would be conculsive evidence that Hitler ordered the 'holocost'

Or indeed that the 'holocost' was as devasting as we believe.

I'm pretty open minded, but can't find any conclusive evidence for much of the jewish extermination during World War II.(the holocost that was claimed to have happened during WWII, not the ones claimed to have happened during the start of the 20th century)

Very interesting topic indeed.

KTRIC

Mass extermination has been going on in one way or another for thousands of years. What Hitler did was no different to what the English, American and other races did throughout history.

What Hitler did is try to preserve his country's identity and make them stronger. Unfortuantly he was slightly insane and didn't go about it the right way.

hawkmoon269

BazH and KTRIC, your posts disturb me, it is all the more reprehensible coming from people that apparently have a few brain cells to rub together unlike the benighted thread-starter, and one of you is even a moderator.

Truly disturbing.

hawkmoon269

K-TRIC wrote:

What Hitler did is try to preserve his country's identity and make them stronger.

Preserve his country from WHAT exactly? Underlying your post is racism and anti-semitism, whether you realise it or not.

shacko

Sarge wrote:

Im insulted that you even brought this question up and feel that the board would more then liekly be better off without your imput . The Fact that you ask this question insults many of our members here which i also find very insulting

This is a classic Knee Jeark reaction without any thought. Brought about by the demonisation of a Mad Man. It's only though open disscusion that we can learn. Hitler Was admititky Insane, But what he did is not that dissimilar to what the Isrealies have been doing to the Palestinions In the Last 30 years. Ket us not also forget the members of Irish Defence Forces MURDERED under orders from the Israli Goverment

shacko

BazH and KTRIC elements of ur posts disturb me also. However I do reconise they need to be discussed openly and trutfully as opposed to be Dismissed out of hand

KTRIC

hawkmoon269 wrote:

Preserve his country from WHAT exactly? Underlying your post is racism and anti-semitism, whether you realise it or not.

There is nothing racist or anti-semeticn in my statment. Care to enlighten me oh wise one.

stevenmu

bazH wrote:

And you'd think there would be conculsive evidence that Hitler ordered the 'holocost'

Or indeed that the 'holocost' was as devasting as we believe.

I'm pretty open minded, but can't find any conclusive evidence for much of the jewish extermination during World War II.(the holocost that was claimed to have happened during WWII, not the ones claimed to have happened during the start of the 20th century)

Very interesting topic indeed.

I assume that there is at least strong, if not conclusive evidence, both of the approximate extent of the holocost and Hitler's responsibility for it. I don't know what this evidence is, but the conventional wisdom is that the holocost was really bad and that Hitler was ultimately responsible for it, or most of it at least, he wasn't the only one. The whole subject has been investigated more than probably any other event in history so I'm sure if there wasnt good evidence, there'd be lots of disseenting views.

(and yes, I know assumption is the mother of all f**kups)

Dagnir Glaurung

Loads of this "Hitler the Madman" stuff is propaganda he spread himself. He never really had a lot of concrete aims(look how much time he devotes on Jews in Mein Kampf compared to other stuff. Even the little he included was what every other right-wing arse had been saying for years). Yes, he went mad and starting killing the Jews but it's not like it was his only aim in life. And he didn't mean to start the war.

beanyb

The fact that the Israeli's murder people is absolutely no justification for the slaughter of millions of Jews.

I do feel for the Palestinians who were basically thrown out of their land due to the guilt of the western world in the aftermath of the holocaust, they've been screwed over, no doubt about it. But I personally think it is impossible to ever justify killing people just on the basis that they are of one ethnicity or another, be they Jewish, Albanian, Palestinian or whatever.

hawkmoon269

K-TRIC wrote:

There is nothing racist or anti-semeticn in my statment. Care to enlighten me oh wise one.

Your suggestion was that Hitler was motivated largely by a simple desire to try to preserve his country's identity. You further suggested that he just went about it the wrong way, carrying the implication that you do not have a particular problem with his ideas, just with the ways that he implemented them.

Hitler's regime murdered millions of Jews, gays, gypies, etc, purely because they were deemed 'Untermenschen'. That has nothing WHATEVER to do with trying to preserve the identity of a country (whatever that means) it is nothing but racism based on a twisted ideology.

It's as simple as that.

hawkmoon269

beanyb wrote:

The fact that the Israeli's murder people is absolutely no justification for the slaughter of millions of Jews.

I do feel for the Palestinians who were basically thrown out of their land due to the guilt of the western world in the aftermath of the holocaust, they've been screwed over, no doubt about it. But I personally think it is impossible to ever justify killing people just on the basis that they are of one ethnicity or another, be they Jewish, Albanian, Palestinian or whatever.

All good points.

stevenmu

shacko wrote:

The reason I ask is I was watching the news at lunch time with a friend of mine When a segment can on about the Israelis Treatment of The Palestine's. Which Is a thundering Disgrace. MY mate commented that the only reason the Americans let Israel away with it is because of the power of Jewish Lobbies in America. Which after some careful Thought I had to agree with. But I do not believe that this warrants mass extermination

I fail to see how the disgracefull treatment of the Palistinians by the Israeli government could lead you to believe Hitler was right. Two wrongs don't make a right etc.. etc.. You're also forgetting/ignoring/not aware that many Isaraelis protest against their own governments actions against the Palistinians and these groups have grown in power over the last few years, and are probably largely responsible for the current peace process there.

Cake Fiend

hawkmoon269 wrote:

BazH and KTRIC, your posts disturb me, it is all the more reprehensible coming from people that apparently have a few brain cells to rub together unlike the benighted thread-starter, and one of you is even a moderator.

Truly disturbing.

Why do you bring up the fact that BazH is a moderator? Why do people think this has any relevance whatsoever to a person's posts? He's not even the moderator of this board for Jaysus' sake, nor a moderator of any regular viewable board. This is a pet hate of mine. Or am I out of line calling you on this, seeing as I'm one of those supposedly do-gooder moderators? :rolleyes:

The fact that you seem to believe that a moderator should be bound to a certain kind of lefty opinion range because of their commitment to the particular board they moderate is truly disturbing.

mr_angry

stevenmu wrote:

Erm, no. That's not to say that every thing he ever did or said was wrong, but the main ones were. I can't see any possible justification for the holocost or for invading all the countries that he did.

Volkswagon? That worked out pretty well...

weemcd

it takes more than one man to carry out a genoicde...

there are more to blame than just hitler

Sarky

I find this thread offensive, and have reported it. There's nothing funny about the Holocaust, you sick bastards. My own granduncle died in a concentration camp.


He broke his neck falling out of a guard tower.

Pighead

I can't get over the seemingly endless fascination for, and worse, grudging or even outright respect for, Hitler, these lads seem to base their argument that even the worst of people have good in them. Whether or not such a claim is justified, the actions and consequences of the actions of monsters such as Hitler and Haughey should never be forgotten, , or worse still, distorted into a lie about their good intentions or good effects. Monsters should always be clearly labelled as such, and condemned. Even Genghis Khan had a mother who might have loved him--small reason to excuse tearing men limb from limb and drinking their blood.
Is that kernel i hear posting?

hawkmoon269

Sico wrote:

Why do you bring up the fact that BazH is a moderator? Why do people think this has any relevance whatsoever to a person's posts? He's not even the moderator of this board for Jaysus' sake, nor a moderator of any regular viewable board. This is a pet hate of mine. Or am I out of line calling you on this, seeing as I'm one of those supposedly do-gooder moderators? :rolleyes:

The fact that you seem to believe that a moderator should be bound to a certain kind of lefty opinion range because of their commitment to the particular board they moderate is truly disturbing.

Guess what, you have a fair point.

With the exception of a few sub-boards like the politics section, the commuting/transport section, the motoring section, and a couple of other sections where the moderators are pretty intelligent people, the moderators here are rather poor.

So yeah, you have a point. It's unrealistic on my part to expect high standards from the moderators here, and I evidently need to revise my already not very high opinion of the quality of the moderatorship here in a downward direction.

As for the idea that critics of Hitler are all within 'a certain kind of lefty opinion range', I'm pretty much speechless at comment. Your 'point' is so absurd that it just floored me.

KTRIC

hawkmoon269 wrote:

Your suggestion was that Hitler was motivated largely by a simple desire to try to preserve his country's identity. You further suggested that he just went about it the wrong way, carrying the implication that you do not have a particular problem with his ideas, just with the ways that he implemented them.

Hitler's regime murdered millions of Jews, gays, gypies, etc, purely because they were deemed 'Untermenschen'. That has nothing WHATEVER to do with trying to preserve the identity of a country (whatever that means) it is nothing but racism based on a twisted ideology.

It's as simple as that.

What I ment by "going about it the wrong way" is the fact that he did infact kill millions of inocent people. I did not condone his actions in any of my posts. He did cleanse the population of sub-humans because he thought they were the reason Germany was going through a recession before the war. He also detested the idea that Germans would interact with these people and have children. It is not a crime to try to keep one's identitiy, but it is to murder your neighbour because he is a different race.

Kernel

shacko wrote:

The reason I ask is I was watching the news at lunch time with a friend of mine When a segment can on about the Israelis Treatment of The Palestine's. Which Is a thundering Disgrace. MY mate commented that the only reason the Americans let Israel away with it is because of the power of Jewish Lobbies in America. Which after some careful Thought I had to agree with. But I do not believe that this warrants mass extermination

Well, you're correct to say that the Israeli treatment of Palestinians is oppressive and inhumane (to say the least), but as to whether the Final solution (ie. holocaust) was right? Of course not, ethnic cleansing can never be excused. The whole question of National Socialism and Hitler being beneficial to Germany turned out to be false ultimately, as the Reich was destroyed in the end (along with millions of German people). The whole issue is quite complex though, and I don't think you'll learn much from the people in this forum, or get many knowledgeable arguments.

Hitler was a product of his time, Germany was in ruins and crippled after WWI and the treaty of Versailles, unemployment was high and people resented the Jewish population for their controlling of businesses and of financial institutions. Eugenics was a popular scientific school of thought at the time, and Hitler believed very much in it. He inflamed the German population with a feeling of self-worth - even superiority and gave birth to National Socialism. He got the economy going again, and brought Germany back to a state (economically and militarily) of greatness. He blamed the Jews for a lot of Germany's woes - as did many of the people, and together with Eugenics theories on race, he tried to create a new world order of racial purity and German strength. If you were a healthy German, this was great, not so great for the rest of the world - especially the jews.

He wanted to eradicate genetic disease from propogating further through bloodlines, which you can understand as a logical point, but not content with sterilising these people, he sent them to concentration camps. He wanted to create a healthy and happy Reich which stretched across Europe and lasted a thousand years, with great scientific achievements and architectural marvels. Who knows what society would be like today if he achieved this - although undoubtedly it would be totalitarian (even though it is quite totalitarian in terms of US domination).

Hmm.. I don't want to go on too much, so I'll say, he made bad decisions about the final solution of Jews, a war on two fronts, stretching his supply lines in the East too far, and finally in a belief that the German Reich could agree an alliance with the West against the Soviets. He was wrong on many things, but he also brought Germany from it's post WWI collapse to a powerful state, and many ideas of his National Socialism were very effective - and therefore 'right' for the time and circumstance.

For people to say he was mad, I wonder what you base that on? Certainly he was under extreme stress (and suffering from either Parkinson's or nerve damage from the July plot) towards the end of the war in Berlin, but mad? The man had beliefs and principles that others don't agree with - that doesn't make him mentally insane though.

So, he was both right and wrong, he was a great and ambitious leader - but I think your question is pointed with regard to the Jewish question, in which case, there can never be a situation where it is right to initiate an industrialised killing of millions of people.

hawkmoon269

Sarky wrote:

I find this thread offensive, and have reported it. There's nothing funny about the Holocaust, you sick bastards. My own granduncle died in a concentration camp.


He broke his neck falling out of a guard tower.

Hear hear. But actually some of the comments in the thread are more offensive than the OP, it's just they did it in a more clever and insidious way.

And I also agree fully with Pighead's post.

KTRIC

mr_angry wrote:

Volkswagon? That worked out pretty well...

So did colour tv, we have the Nazi war machine to thank for that.

hawkmoon269

K-TRIC wrote:

He did cleanse the population of sub-humans because he thought they were the reason Germany was going through a recession before the war. He also detested the idea that Germans would interact with these people and have children.

I'd be interested to hear how you define 'sub-humans'.

Sarky

Pighead wrote:

I can't get over the seemingly endless fascination for, and worse, grudging or even outright respect for, Hitler, these lads seem to base their argument that even the worst of people have good in them. Whether or not such a claim is justified, the actions and consequences of the actions of monsters such as Hitler and Haughey should never be forgotten, , or worse still, distorted into a lie about their good intentions or good effects. Monsters should always be clearly labelled as such, and condemned. Even Genghis Khan had a mother who might have loved him--small reason to excuse tearing men limb from limb and drinking their blood.
Is that kernel i hear posting?

Could you call yourself an idiot this time and save me the trouble? kthxbye

Kernel

hawkmoon269 wrote:

Guess what, you have a fair point.

With the exception of a few sub-boards like the politics section, the commuting/transport section, the motoring section, and a couple of other sections where the moderators are pretty intelligent people, the moderators here are rather poor.

So yeah, you have a point. It's unrealistic on my part to expect high standards from the moderators here, and I evidently need to revise my already not very high opinion of the quality of the moderatorship here in a downward direction.

As for the idea that critics of Hitler are all within 'a certain kind of lefty opinion range', I'm pretty much speechless at comment. Your 'point' is so absurd that it just floored me.

I'm always amused at the irony of the politically correct anti-nazi brigade, who want things censored and decide what is right and wrong to talk about or express an opinion on. Don't you realise that your views on these things are fascist in themself?

Pighead

Sarky wrote:

Could you call yourself an idiot this time and save me the trouble? kthxbye

Oh my good god,Can somebody please show Mr Narky where the ignore Pighead button is,its one of Boards most Popular inventions,Go on Narky give it a go. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Kernel

Pighead wrote:

Oh my good god,Can somebody please show Mr Narky where the ignore Pighead button is,its one of Boards most Popular inventions,Go on Narky give it a go. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I think he wants your ass.

hawkmoon269

Kernel wrote:

I'm always amused at the irony of the politically correct anti-nazi brigade, who want things censored and decide what is right and wrong to talk about or express an opinion on. Don't you realise that your views on these things are fascist in themself?

I'm not interested in engaging someone like you in debate at this point. It would make me feel dirty. Go back to Stormfront.

KTRIC

hawkmoon269 wrote:

I'd be interested to hear how you define 'sub-humans'.

Don't quote words that you don't know the meaning of. Untermenschen is sub-human in english.

hawkmoon269

K-TRIC wrote:

Don't quote words that you don't know the meaning of. Untermenschen is sub-human in english.

I am well aware of that. The difference is, I put it in inverted commas. I'm sorry that you have fallen for Nazi WN propaganda.

KTRIC

hawkmoon269 wrote:

Grass is something you smoke, birds are something you shag, take your Vorsprung Durch Technik, and shove it up your arse!

I think that we are not seeing the full picture here. Is it just a general hatred of Germans or of Nazi you have ?

hawkmoon269

K-TRIC wrote:

I think that we are not seeing the full picture here. Is it just a general hatred of Germans or of Nazi you have ?

It's just quote from a song by Pulp. Nothing anti-German in it, it is satirising the advertising industry more than anything.

You're quite fond of making presumptions aren't you?

KTRIC

hawkmoon269 wrote:

You're quite fond of making presumptions aren't you?

And you're quite fond of making acusations. You seem to have no hesitation in throwing insults around like they are free. This is a discussion board so a slagging match.

hawkmoon269

K-TRIC wrote:

And you're quite fond of making acusations. You seem to have no hesitation in throwing insults around like they are free. This is a discussion board so a slagging match.

Actually, I haven't thrown any insults around. I have merely called it as I see it. There is a difference.

Imposter

K-TRIC wrote:

So did colour tv, we have the Nazi war machine to thank for that.

And the roads over here are super too.

...but apart from all that, what ahve the germans ever done for us?

Kernel

hawkmoon269 wrote:

I'm not interested in engaging someone like you in debate at this point. It would make me feel dirty. Go back to Stormfront.

Haven't you read my post at all? Ah well, you've demonstrated more prejudice by assuming I'm a white supremicist. Your downward spiral continues.

Kernel

Imposter wrote:

And the roads over here are super too.

...but apart from all that, what ahve the germans ever done for us?

Invented rocketry, the jet engine, medical research etc..

zAbbo

Seems there are a few posts directed at what i said, Let me explain.

I don't instantly believe anything i read, or indeed what appears to be the general consensus.

While the neo-nazi brigade is worrying, whats even more disheartening are those who defer the right to question.

In regards to the halocoast, and in particular the concentration camps, there are a few misconceptions which i find interesting.

What I have been taught in History class.

1. Hitler killed 6 million jews
2. Majority of them were gassed

When i tried to gather some information on this(im a fence sitter), it appeared quite difficult, especially to question the 6 million figure.

This was heavily made up from the 4 million figure from Auschwitz, which was recently reduced to 1.5million, obviously the 6 million figure drops?, apparently not. Consider the two images here -
4 Million
1.5 Million

And what about the gassing, i mean everyone knows that Hitler killed them jews with gas, we even know the type of gas - Zyklon B
A slow releasing fumigant, One wiff of that and you'd be dead, right?
Unlikely, seeing as death by gas has proved to be a disaster

6 Million dead in in what 5 years? 3,500 or so a day, while fighting a war on both fronts?

I'm sceptical of a lot of things, and most definetly not a neo nazi, While I believe what happened during World War II was a disgrace, I would not blindly believe everything you see/read.

My views on all this, Look to who benefited most from this.

And please don't insult me because i am open to finding out what exactly happened, and don't throw your primary school history lessons back at me either.

jezza

This Is The Cuckoosssss Nest!
Yay :d