Accountance Salary "Rip of Ireland"

kluivert

Ok

Trainee Accountant with one years experience with B.A. Accounting & Finance. Salary 13500 yoyos.

Can anyone out there beat this.

I have heard of stories that trainee's get paid worst that this.

I also hear that trainee solicitors have the same problem.

Is this true?

nesf

Look at what a fully qualified accountant can earn by doing contract work and you'll see your answer.

Plus a trainee accountant is on that wage while they are completing professional qualifications in accountancy.

It's a long term reimbursement thing rather than a short term one.

Sposs

That less than min wage ,report whoever offered you that , im sure it must be illegal. Trainee accountants with a degree especially in the area of finance start between 25k - 28k
The fact you also have a finance degree means you'll be excempt from having to do some accountancy exams.

Alot of people work in the accounts deparments of companies while training to be an accountant ,you dont have to work in an accountancy firm, and you more likely to get paid more.

Try here

http://connectaccountants.com/jobseeker/JobSearchIndex.php4

kluivert

Nesf has it spot on am afraid its kinda of a long term invest thing.

Sposs cheers for that, a few things about accountancy tho, one is that if you what to apply for a practice cert you have to work in one for three years first.

About the minimum wage, would you believe that it is legal. Training schemes such as that for accountants and solicitors is exempt from that legislation.
Funny thing is i think it was a accountant who agreed to the legislation (Bertie Ahern).

No i am really wondering if theres anyone out there earning less than this in a practice.

nesf

The minimum wage doesn't apply to trainees or apprentices. The whole idea being that they are being trained up to be qualified so they are getting more than just a wage out of a job. Yes you are on low wages for few years but you are getting the experience and professional qualifications that can set you up in a career for life.

Well worth it imho. Trade apprenticeships and trainee schemes need to taken in context of the bigger picture. Yes you are paid **** to start with but it's only temporary. After a few years you are not only fully qualified you also have experience. Makes finding work much easier.

The minimum wage is there to protect other people not people who are "learning a trade".

kluivert

I agree with you nesf.

Have to think of it as a package. In all fairness the experience of have gotten in the last year is unbelieve, i was expecting it, like i prepare accounts, tax, audit work everything the seniors do really bar making the decisions. Its very good in this practice but a bit more money would be nice.

Saying that, its very hard to survive.

So i have taken on a Part time job in which is actually very easy and well paid for a part time job (Data Entry). I now work 70+ hours a week (Illegal) but it has to be done in order to survive financial.

nesf

kluivert wrote:

So i have taken on a Part time job in which is actually very easy and well paid for a part time job (Data Entry). I now work 70+ hours a week (Illegal) but it has to be done in order to survive financial.

I think it's only illegal for a company to expect you to put in 70+ a week regularily for one job.

Afaik if you take on two jobs and work extra hours I don't think it's illegal per sae. Well, you're doing it by choice to start with, and I think that law is just to stop people being forced into working such hours, rather than people taking on such hours if they want to.

Eoin

Sorry if someone has already said this but:

First of all, if you are with a company like KPMG, you may start on crap money as a trainee. However, they give you VERY generous study leave (several months I think) for your ACCA exams, and as soon as you are qualified the wages shoot up to over 30K.

The same goes for a trainee solicitor. The company is in fact sponsoring the wages through Blackhall place. So even though the money seems crap, the trainee is getting paid for the time they are in college full time (about 8 months) AND their fees are covered.

kluivert

Its certainly not KMPG.

With my practice you get four days paid leave for study per each exam and one paid day for the exam, so five days in total. I hope you dont mind me saying but months is an exaggration.

A week per exam is normall and normally sit two exams at a go.

Yeah once your qualified the salary goes up thats true and the fact is thats three years down the road, so my question is how does a person in this trade keep themselves afloat. Do they get a second job like me.

Other trainee's in the practice live at home with their parents so that saves on the rent but i moved out because of them so that option is a no no.

I was just curious thats all.

Eoin

kluivert wrote:

Its certainly not KMPG.

With my practice you get four days paid leave for study per each exam and one paid day for the exam, so five days in total. I hope you dont mind me saying but months is an exaggration.

A week per exam is normall and normally sit two exams at a go.

This is the yearly exams we are talking about right? I lived with a guy who literally had most the summer off to study, however he was able to work time up so that may have accounted (no pun intended) for a lot of the time he took off. Still, I think it was more than 4 days study leave per exam.

kluivert

ACCA exams are in first week of June and first week in December.

Fair play to him for all that time off seems very excessive though i have never heard of anyone getting a couple off.

jd

kluivert wrote:

Funny thing is i think it was a accountant who agreed to the legislation (Bertie Ahern).

Bertie is not a Qualified Accountant. He worked in the accounts dept of the Mater Hospital.
jd

Kinetic^

kluivert wrote:

Ok

Trainee Accountant with one years experience with B.A. Accounting & Finance. Salary 13500 yoyos.

Can anyone out there beat this.

I have heard of stories that trainee's get paid worst that this.

I also hear that trainee solicitors have the same problem.

Is this true?

For starters, it depends on where you're situated in the country??
Then on how big your firm is??
Then on what qualification you're studying?? (cpa/acca/aca)

I'm in a top 20 firm and i get the equivalent of the Big 4 for study leave for ACA. Prof 2, 5 weeks + exam week. Prof 2, 9 weeks + exam week. FAE, 11 weeks + exam week (whole summer off)

seamus

eoin_s wrote:

Sorry if someone has already said this but:

First of all, if you are with a company like KPMG, you may start on crap money as a trainee. However, they give you VERY generous study leave (several months I think) for your ACCA exams, and as soon as you are qualified the wages shoot up to over 30K.

300 hours study leave is around the norm, though it depends on the trainee. That's 8 weeks paid study leave per year. Then there's some exam leave as well for the exams themselves.

kluivert

Am based in Monaghan in a practice with 7 partners.

Anyway i am doing ACCA exams and i am doing my finals in December.

Thank god the end of exams.

The firm that the above gentleman works in seems to be very good.

Kinetic^

kluivert wrote:

Am based in Monaghan in a practice with 7 partners.

Well not living in a city will mean that your wages will be lower, in line with living expenses.

kluivert wrote:

Anyway i am doing ACCA exams and i am doing my finals in December.

Study leave for ACCA wouldnt be as much as you would get for ACA, this will also affect what you'll get paid too.

I forgot to ask how long you've been working at it??

kluivert

I started working in practice in June 04 start out of college.

Took final tax exam P3.2 in Dec 04 and Auditing final P3.1 in Jun 05.
Going to the final three compulsory exams in Dec 05 and hopefully that'll be the end of it.

Pay review in March so fingers crossed. I still cant believe that you ACA guys get that much time off. Is that paid study leave or do you have to work the hours up. Thats great leave to be honest.

I am fed up of working two jobs really just tired of it you know. Takes alot out of ya. But i shall battle on.

You know it could be worst rite!

Kinetic^

You're still on 13.5??

I started on 17k, still on it, till october, been here just over a year too,hopefully go up to about 21/22k.

The work experience is still a problem, even though you'll have the exams done by december, technically you're not qualified till you get your 3 years done so dont expect much till then. Have you had any raise at all??


I dont have to work up anytime at all for study leave, its there for me but deadlines are pretty tight and god help you if you go over the budgeted time.

kluivert

Mate i started on 12.5k a joke but i thought i would save on the fact that i wouldnt have to venture to dublin you know.

Pay review last March 05

Pay rise was 500e for passing the tax exam and 500e for increase productivity for 10 month period. I felt hard done by to be honest.

I hear trainee's starting off in Dublin on 18k no experience straight from college. There is a big demand for trainees in Dublin so i reckon you can negoitate a good wage down there.

Did you see the Sunday Business Post Supplement for students applying for college and uni a couple of months ago. They done a section about accounting as a career. I laughed my ass off when they started that the average starting out salary was 35k for trainees. WTF??? Id like to work there!!!

Kinetic^

kluivert wrote:

Pay review last March 05

Pay rise was 500e for passing the tax exam and 500e for increase productivity for 10 month period. I felt hard done by to be honest.

IMO you were done there,thats awful, i wouldve kicked up a fuss.

kluivert wrote:

I hear trainee's starting off in Dublin on 18k no experience straight from college. There is a big demand for trainees in Dublin so i reckon you can negoitate a good wage down there.

Yeah thats for the people in the top 20, people in the big start on 22-25k.

kluivert wrote:

Did you see the Sunday Business Post Supplement for students applying for college and uni a couple of months ago. They done a section about accounting as a career. I laughed my ass off when they started that the average starting out salary was 35k for trainees. WTF??? Id like to work there!!!

Thats bullsh*t, that has to be newly qualified people, whoever got that info in the SBP, was misinformed. I wish it was that much.

My advice to you is to get your 3 exams in december and then make move down here to the big smoke, loads of jobs down here so you're spoiled for choice really.Dont foret to get your firm to sign off your work experience record before you leave though.

kluivert

Basicly Drogheda is becoming huge and there is alot of positions starting to open for trainees in industry. So i might think about heading off their next.

As for here its small but has big clients, well in this office there is one senior one semi three trainees including me and one partner. And i have to say i the partner is really good here, he works with you and trys to show you new things and helps out all the time and i have learned alot within my first year from him, more id say than i picked up in college.

If i pass my exams in Dec then at the pay review i am going to kick up a fuss alright. Different partner looks after the HR ends of things so i can kick off at him.

The big smoke ha.... Not for me am afraid. I go down there 3 evenings a week and a Saturday for college classes in BPP and to be honest...i dont like it.

I like coming home to the peace and quiet and be able to relax.

Cheers lad for the craic good to hear about this someone elses point of view.

HashSlinging

kluivert wrote:

Ok

Trainee Accountant with one years experience with B.A. Accounting & Finance. Salary 13500 yoyos.

Can anyone out there beat this.

I have heard of stories that trainee's get paid worst that this.

I also hear that trainee solicitors have the same problem.

Is this true?

I know an accountant who earns €800 a day FFS! tough S**T

lomb

im sure a fully certified chartered accountant can easily make 100000, being a trainee is all part of being taken advantage of till u reach that level. same with any job, at least with accountancy u can get to that level, most jobs will never see anything like that.

lomb

HashSlinging wrote:

I know an accountant who earns €800 a day FFS! tough S**T

everythings relative hashslinging, some people in construction make that

Fitzer12345

As people above have already said accountants working in practice start on very low money, but most firms pay your study fees which can be quite condsiderable over the time it takes to get qualified.

However working directly in industry i.e. finance section of a company, the starting wages would be slightly better but your long term development as an accountant would be restricted as in my experience you would not have the breadth of experience as someone working with multiple clients in practise.

Also some of the BIG 4 now have schemes where high calibre graduates are sent on to complete a masters then highered after that to start ACA. I know they have a masters and all but they are being recruited as trainees, wages in the high 20's from what I was told

OLDYELLAR

Well my firm aernt paying for any aspect of my education , I paid my ACCA Fees and exemption fees , Im paying for the course out of my own money too .
They give me 4 days Alright per exam but thats it.

Cork

OLDYELLAR wrote:

Well my firm aernt paying for any aspect of my education , I paid my ACCA Fees and exemption fees , Im paying for the course out of my own money too .
They give me 4 days Alright per exam but thats it.

Probably nothing for repeats?

"treat them Mean to Keep them kean".

Even some salarys paid to qualified accountants from accountacy practices are poor.

You'd expect the small ones but some larger ones are as bad.

Pity people tied to contracts in grotty accountacy practices.

OLDYELLAR

Ya I dont get any days for repeats .

Kluivert ,your up north right>? Is your salary Euro or pound sterling?

Cork

Ya I dont get any days for repeats

I knew a case where somebody qualified and the accountant called them up for a talk. He said that he was claiming a 500 quid training allowance every year & he was reducing the guys wages as a consequence.

He agreed then to pay the difference in cash.

Dickens would be amazed with how stingy many accountacy practices actually are.

Long hours and low pay in my experience still seem to be the norm.

OLDYELLAR

Oh my god that is so stingy!

Well my lot cant look for a thing off me , Im on crap money and Im absolutley broke coming up with my college fees.
The way I see it there getting a person who on their own time and money is training theirself further and making them a better qualified trainee in the process.

If they look for anything off me when I leave they can go whistle because the only thing Ill want is a signed work experience record.

RainyDay

Cork wrote:

He agreed then to pay the difference in cash.

Dickens would be amazed with how stingy many accountacy practices actually are.

Would Dickens be amazed to see accountants engaging in such blatant tax evasion - making under-the-table payments to their staff?

kluivert

OLDYELLAR...

Your firm are not paying your educational fees?

I have that strange considering you work for an accounting firm who should be aware of the relief available on paying course fees.

We all have to pay the subs each year and exemption fees.

But i get half my course fee paid up front on the first attempt and the other half if i past first time. I also get a refund of exam fees if i pass first time as well.

If i was you i would take that up with your employer at your next appraisal.

ACCA salary survey for 2005....interesting read.

OLDYELLAR

Not that strange , A lot of my frends are in the same boat.

Yep there not paying a penny , Im broke coming up with my fees and they just keep going on about how its great because its tax deductable , Like I earn enough for tax to even make a dent in my salary:rolleyes:

Im on a 300e bonus for each one I pass which is ok but not great considering the course is 700 per subject not including The fee for sitting it.

karangka

I'm working with an accountancy practice myself. I joined them after finished my ACCA exams. I imagined when I first starting that they'll pay me decent enough considering i've past me exams and I won't need study leave or study fees to be paid for. I was wrong:mad: .

I got paid 14k with 1.5k retained as a loyalty bonus. They'll only give me that after I completed 1 year with them. I'm on the 2nd year now. Have to serve my time coz need 3 years before qualified. pay review, got 25% increase after threatening to leave. Sounds good, but i leave in the city centre, pay my own rent (nearly half of the pay), bills and everything. They want to retain my salary this time but I asked it to be postponed coz I wanna get the rent relief of 300. I won'thave to pay any taxes with the level they proposed and can't claim for tax relief without paying tax.

Life is painful for me. I can't work part-time. Company policy. Just have to hang on for another 18 months now. Barely surviving.

kluivert

What city are you working in....In Dublin you should get at least 17-18k a yr starting off.

Did you do the fast track scheme for ACCA exams - I know people who done that route and didnt do very well. Fair paly to anyone who managed to pass them.

If i was you id look around.

As for working part time - well i work part time as well and the firm has no bother with it - the p/t is easy its working in Boylesports - can be good craic as well and they have good social parties - christmas, halloween, summer and so on.

Do what you have to do get by.

Stark

Wow, after reading this thread, I'm so glad I didn't do accountancy.

What's the story with part-time work? Could you work part-time without them knowing about it?

kluivert

Accoutancy is a good job to be in once you have qualified, after that you can do anything really, business, finance, accounts, fund accounting, the list goes on like.

You have to take the hard life now in order to get the easier life later.

The firm i work for know that i work part time as well and vice versa but there is a law that states how many hours you can work each week though.

karangka

I'm living in Dublin. I know in Dublin a starting salary of 17 to 18 k is acceptable. I can't go anywhere else for the meantime. Stucked here.

Wish that I can do part time works. Bookkeeping maybe. I'll be living happily if I be able to do some bookkeeping and charge a quarter of what my firm is charging. The job is simple if you know your stuff.

How many years are you left with Kluivert?

By the way, I did ACCA straight after my diplomas. managed to pass them on first attempt though. However, I'm poorer now then when I was a student.

kluivert

I have a 18 months to go, i have my finals this Christmas P3.1 and the core papers - not going to be easy but the cost of doing them means that i only get one chance at this really.

Got my study leave approved yesterday - Off from the 10th November to 15th December incl exam days and revision course days so am happy with that really.

Hey listen about part time, especially if its book keeping then why not spread the word to your friends and family especially that your looking for work and can they help if they know anyone and get them to spread the word as well. Then stick an ad the paper and ON HERE - Check out Keyzer Soze - This lad has an ad for his services as a signature.

There are alot of people on this forum who are self employed and need assistance with there finances - log and offer what you where trained to do - For example i got a PM from a gentleman requesting help in filling out his B1 - he wrote back expressing his thanks and wished to contribute to my tuition through paypal - I thought it was very nice of him to offer but i decided not to take it as you know sometimes people just need a little help in this world

Good luck on what you decide to do if you need any advice or anything give us a buzz.

Kinetic^

kluivert wrote:

Then stick an ad the paper and ON HERE - Check out Keyzer Soze - This lad has an ad for his services as a signature.

Thanks for the promotion kluivert.

This is gonna make you sick, I passed my exams and got a ...........45% increase. For some reason, they gave everybody training a really good raise this year - I am very suspicious about this though, probably some sort of catch like "Come to work on Sundays - every week", so I'm waiting to see what happens.

Now saying that I've still got Prof 3 & the FAE's to sit, but I'm well pleased with the situation now. In case you ACCA people were wondering, I've still 8 subjects to go, so I've still a long road ahead of me.

kluivert

Congrats on the exams there.

I heard the FAE exams are tough but if am not mistaking are open book exams - their my type of exams.

ACA students need all the help they can get....lol...only messing well done.

45% increase is pretty good.

There seems to be plenty of accounting students on this website. Good to see we have plenty to be doing during the day.

OLDYELLAR

Lads this is probably a silly question an something I should know .,but what are the ACCA fAE`s?

kluivert

Bold boy..... the ACCA FAE (Core Papers) are the ACCA Core Papers.....

P3.5 Strategic Business Development and Planning
P3.6 Advance Corporate Reporting
P3.7 Finanical Strategic Management.

P3.1-P3.4 Optinal papers pick two from four, i picked tax and auditing as i am in practice and i believed it would be the better option for later on in life. But i think they are the two hardest optional papers you can choose from the four so some people have said.

OLDYELLAR

Im a girl
Oh sweet so the FAE`s are just the prof 3`s deadly syuff.

karangka

3.1 and 3.2 are definitely the hardest. I took 3.3 and 3.4 however. I don't fancy myself working in practice at that time. I'm more into management accounting.

45% is more than good. Wish my bosses will see the same light as yours... maybe in a million years. My girlfriend finished her acca exams recently with 1 year ++ experience and she's already paying tax at 42%. Its kinda depressing for me sometimes. Hoping that the experience will pay off someday. Last montha colleague of mine with 14+ salary left the office because she can't stand the low salary. Went into fund accounting... she is on 30K now. 14K to 30k in one month. Imagine that.

So Kluivert, I see that you got the time post during the day. I'm dead busy with the income tax.

OLDYELLAR

I only have time for a quick look at lunch too , this income Tax has me wrecked , Ive lost some weight in the lastmonth , an Im putting it all down to stress in work , Mental it is.

hierro

I have almost committed to looking and beginning an accountancy apprenticeship. I have no financial qualifications at all. Just leaving cert accounting. I completed a diploma in Electronics and IT, for christ's sake... However, I am considering completing IATI accounting technician course, part-time whilst in my current employment, and then looking for the apprenticeship in a firm once finished that? comments?

Have any of you guys any experiance of working from scratch, just like I intend to do? I know I'm looking at 7 odd years.

Kinetic^

hierro wrote:

I have almost committed to looking and beginning an accountancy apprenticeship. I have no financial qualifications at all. Just leaving cert accounting. I completed a diploma in Electronics and IT, for christ's sake... However, I am considering completing IATI accounting technician course, part-time whilst in my current employment, and then looking for the apprenticeship in a firm once finished that? comments?

Have any of you guys any experiance of working from scratch, just like I intend to do? I know I'm looking at 7 odd years.

Hierro, thats the way I've done it. I got my IATI last year and then got a job in a firm. Its definately worth it, I was working as a motorcycle courier when I was 18, then decided to do the IATI and now I'm 8 exams away from being qualified. It seems a long way to go but, I'm a long way from where I used to be. Take a leap of faith, it'll be worth it.

kluivert

I agree go for it,

Its a qualification that doesnt limit you to just accounting, ACCA qualification looks at business management, finance and accounting. So after your qualified the choice is very good.