Derisory trade-in offers

blastman

Certain dealers take the p1ss big time.

Mate of mine is thinking of changing his car. He has an 03 Laguna, great condition, no bangs or scratches, average mileage. It cost about 30K when he bought it new.

He went into a certain non-Renault dealer the other day and was looking at buying a new car from them which had a sticker price of 46K. He asked what they would give him for his car as a trade-in.

He was offered 10K!

Anyone had a more insulting offer than that?

Jip

I was offered almost almost 2 grand less for my Bravo in a Fiat dealer than what I was being offered by non-Fiat dealer. Even at that, my car later went on sale in a different garage altogther for most that €1,500 more than I got it for. Doubt he got that much for it though.

JohnBoy

they seem to be worth nothing in the trade alright, my dad was trading in his 01, and eventually fought his way to seven for it, they said they could buy 02's in the trade for between five and seven.

Downtime

Slightly off topic but nonetheless shows how they take the piss.

G/F bought a car from a certain garage. It was second hand and seemed all right at first. She bought it for €6450. After a week problems started - wouldn't start, engine revving for no reason etc etc. Brought it back, and they sent it for repairs worth €700, again more problems, they fixed them again and then while driving the brakes locked. The guy in the garage said we'll fix that and I said yes you will by a full refund. Anyway she got money back plus some compensation after 4 months hassle. Car is on sale in garage for €7650 a week later.

bmoferrall

I explored trading my car for a skyline at Ken Lawford's in Nov. 2003. I bought my car for a little over 50K in November 2002 (a few months old at that stage). He rang around a few Alfa dealers and was quoted <20K from one!! It took me a while to get this out of him; he was initially too embarassed to tell me what the offer was. Worse still, the offer was from the dealer from whom I had bought the car a year earlier.
If anyone can beat that I'll be surprised!

unkel

blastman wrote:

He was offered 10K!

Anyone had a more insulting offer than that?

That's desperate considering he could have bought the €46k Renault for not much more than €40k cash

Tell him to sell his car privately for maybe €12k, so his net spend would be €28k rather than the €36k Renault are looking for

prospect

bmoferrall wrote:

I explored trading my car for a skyline at Ken Lawford's in Nov. 2003. I bought my car for a little over 50K in November 2002 (a few months old at that stage). He rang around a few Alfa dealers and was quoted <20K from one!! It took me a while to get this out of him; he was initially too embarassed to tell me what the offer was. Worse still, the offer was from the dealer from whom I had bought the car a year earlier.
If anyone can beat that I'll be surprised!

I know Ken Lawford personally, and/[edited]

Mike.

unkel

bmoferrall wrote:

I explored trading my car for a skyline at Ken Lawford's in Nov. 2003. I bought my car for a little over 50K in November 2002 (a few months old at that stage). He rang around a few Alfa dealers and was quoted <20K from one!!

A 60% depreciation on a (virtually) new car in it's first year :eek:

Can't say I've ever heard of figures that high

el tel

It must be a huge disappointment when this happens - I know of a dude who bought a Itchypu$$y Charisma for €17k, two years later was offered €4300
as a trade in.

But I have a limited amount of sympathy for people who go out and buy certain* brand new cars which everyone with any sense knows have rubbish residual values and will be worth peanuts after a very short while.

*Obscure Asian junk, Renault, Citröen, Peugot, Fiat, Alfa...

lomb

while u people enjoy ur lagunas loosing 10grand a year il enjoy my sl320 when i get it or an 840i loosing 1000 a year lol, 50 times better car, ah unkel u must be laughing for the last few years driving ur v8 7series

ionapaul

My mother changed her car earlier this year, wanted to trade in her '99 Seat Arosa in good condition for a new Toyota Yaris. She was offered €500-€800 by a range of dealers. I found out the book value was over €3,600! I eventually bought it myself, but she was told by the Seat dealer that if she had traded it in for a new Seat, he would have given her €3,000. Selling it myself at the moment and have an offer of €2,800 on the table, a tad higher than the €600 one dealer offered!

blastman

unkel wrote:

That's desperate considering he could have bought the €46k Renault for not much more than €40k cash

Tell him to sell his car privately for maybe €12k, so his net spend would be €28k rather than the €36k Renault are looking for

I should say it wasn't a Renault he was looking at buying, so it wasn't a Renault dealer.

He was offered 17-18K in a couple of other places he looked.

prospect

bmoferrall wrote:

a little over 50K in November 2002 (a few months old at that stage).

What kinda Alfa was it that cost that kind of money second hand!

murphaph

The only time a dealer will give you a good trade in is when you're trading in a worthless piece of sh!t that would be virtually unsaleable otherwise. Any half decent motor will get more private sale. It's just a hassle but a worthwhile one. Dealers can spot mugs a mile away.

528i

Theres a certain level of cretinous snobbery with these must have '05 platers., it doesn't matter if its a fiat/alfa or some half arsed offering from korea once it's new (and attractively financed) so they can have the revised grille model and keep one step ahead of the 'so-last-year' jones next door. only to go menthol when they find its worth the equivalent of a used tampon come trade in the next year.

bmoferrall

prospect wrote:

I know Ken Lawford personally, and/[edited]

Possibly. However, he initially said the offer was so low he wouldn't insult me by revealing it. Only after insisting did he tell me.
Having said that, when I put it to the Alfa salesman he flat out denied it so, who knows. Two salesmen lying at one...surely not

bmoferrall

528i wrote:

Theres a certain level of cretinous snobbery with these must have '05 platers.

I can assure you I don't fall into that category. I bought the car in November '02 and was given the option of leaving it with the dealer until january to get '03 plates. Sorry, no interest...just want to drive the feckin' thing.
In retrospect, yes I was stupid, but sometimes your heart rules your head...I'm only a young lad anyway...still learning about the big bad world :rolleyes:

ps: I'll beat this depreciation lark by keeping my car for another 5-10 years anyway.

mike65

Careful with the use of names guys! We don't want to see Dev in court on a libel suit.

Mike.

S2000

I had a 1995 Mitsi FTO GS, went to a dealer 2 years ago and was offered...... 1,800 on a trade in! It was mint condition!

Sold it privately for nearly 7...and the new owner thought that was a good price!

Blut

A friend of mine was selling his basespec, 02 Laguna earlier this year. Went from offers of 8,000e for it to offers of 12,500e just by spending two days shopping around about 15 different garages. Pretty good going for a 3 year old Laguna that originally only cost 21k or so iirc.

ando

I never buy new, never. Its financial suicide. Anyway, for the money you'd spend on a brand new motor that is slow as a snail, you could get a 2 or 3yr old motor with a lot more oomph and lose less per year on depreciation

ubu

prospect wrote:

What kinda Alfa was it that cost that kind of money second hand!

156 GTA isn't it?

John R

ando wrote:

I never buy new, never. Its financial suicide. Anyway, for the money you'd spend on a brand new motor that is slow as a snail, you could get a 2 or 3yr old motor with a lot more oomph and lose less per year on depreciation

I suppose it's lucky for the likes of you and me that there are so many suicidal mugs out there throwing away their hard-earned on owning a brand new motor for a few hundred days.

ismynametoolong

Guys whats the problem Alfa , Renault what do you expect . The Irish motor market is way way over supplied with up to 6 new chineese makes due to be offered from 07 and i can tell you these will blow the opposition away with their pricing and the quality will be up to the mark too.With ever increasing stringent legislation Cars will soon become like white goods and residuals will be a thing of the past .unfortunately we live is a society driven by greed and keeping up with thee jones and people no longer look at the car but the plate 05 D etc so i dont blame the garage for poor residuals just have a look at their second hand stocks .

Lawdie

Jip wrote:

I was offered almost almost 2 grand less for my Bravo in a Fiat dealer than what I was being offered by non-Fiat dealer. Even at that, my car later went on sale in a different garage altogther for most that €1,500 more than I got it for. Doubt he got that much for it though.

Fiat dealers operate open book pricing, most other dealers use the new vehicle discount to boost the part exchange value.

Regarding the Laguna, its no secret the cars a "pup", the older model was superior in many ways including electrics! There hard to shift second hand.

On the subject of other oddballs "skylines" thats what they are "oddballs", theres no great market for these vehicles. There are some specialist dealers out there who have contacts. Otherwise the salesperson rings around a few traders and gets a trade price to offer. This is common, joe public sees a retail sticker on a forecourt and assumes the vehicle will fetch this price for the dealer. He then applies this retail price to his trade in and expects the same or small difference offer.

No sticking up for the dealer, but its already been stated, look at the forecourts of used vehicles. Theres cost in stocking, depreciation, re-work, servicing, warranty work, sales commissions, government tax, misc. overheads, etc. and yes profit. Heres a real shocker for everyone, garages make a profit, yes just like the companies (unless your company is a charity/foundation of course) where were employed. Our companies are making profits off other people, either directly or indirectly and to stay in business they make lots of profits. They just don't sell cars to do it!


There is always the exceptions, generally garages try to get the margins and offer trade or slightly better prices for part exchanges. You can shop, negotiate or sell privately. Glasnost.

unkel

blastman wrote:

I should say it wasn't a Renault he was looking at buying, so it wasn't a Renault dealer

Sorry, my mistake. You clearly said it wasn't a Renault dealer in your first post

blastman wrote:

He was offered 17-18K in a couple of other places he looked.

Presuming against the list + extras for cars around the €45k-€50k mark? If so that seems generous enough

unkel

Lawdie wrote:

Glasnost

Hardly. Well at least not until those secret little trade books are available to the public online and updated regularly

bazz26

unkel wrote:

Hardly. Well at least not until those secret little trade books are available to the public online and updated regularly

Cannot see it happening anytime soon as the motoring trade tend to move the goal posts regularly with regards their valuation of second hand cars.

In their favour of course.

iregk

Give you a laugh, was looking at a bigger car so went to nissan on the belgard road. Asked about trade in and this was there offer for a 00 306 GTI, perfect condition 10cd changer and mini disk head unit with only 30k miles. €3,000....

I bust my ass laughing at him and he then tried to convice me thats all I'd get for it!!!!

prospect

unkel wrote:

Hardly. Well at least not until those secret little trade books are available to the public online and updated regularly

Some of us MAY have access to that very book.

PM 'somebody' if you would like the official valuation.

kluivert

Hey i got one for you guys.

Gf buys a 01 1L Corsa by a Opel Dealer for €6000 back in June 04.

A year later she wants to buy a bigger car so she goes for a 1.2 03 Astra that the same dealer has.

She asks for the value on her Corsa for the trade in, reply: €6000.

She takes it as thats what she paid for it. And... we left the dealer laughing in her new car.

I think they make it up.....

I know that alot of people are buying the cars in England and importing them here. Getting a better car (Spec wise) and takign advantage of the currency difference.

Guy:Incognito

ando wrote:

I never buy new, never. Its financial suicide. Anyway, for the money you'd spend on a brand new motor that is slow as a snail, you could get a 2 or 3yr old motor with a lot more oomph and lose less per year on depreciation

But if everyone took that attitude there wuldnt be any 2 or 3 year old cars for you to buy.

Guy:Incognito

iregk wrote:

Give you a laugh, was looking at a bigger car so went to nissan on the belgard road. Asked about trade in and this was there offer for a 00 306 GTI, perfect condition 10cd changer and mini disk head unit with only 30k miles. €3,000....

I bust my ass laughing at him and he then tried to convice me thats all I'd get for it!!!!

Just FYI, the part in bold is irrelevant to a dealer regardless of whether you may have paid €500 - €800 for the equipment. You'd save yourself money by sticking the standard radio back in and keeping the good one for youir new car.

Jip

Lawdie wrote:

Fiat dealers operate open book pricing, most other dealers use the new vehicle discount to boost the part exchange value.

Only on new vehicles. I was trading a used car for another used car. Plus I was trading in against an Alfa.

iregk

Stekelly wrote:

Just FYI, the part in bold is irrelevant to a dealer regardless of whether you may have paid €500 - €800 for the equipment. You'd save yourself money by sticking the standard radio back in and keeping the good one for youir new car.

Good point. Would that not make it slightly more attractive on his resale? Most likely i would take it out anyway.

magpie

Itchypu$$y Charisma

WTF? :eek:

masterK

ando wrote:

I never buy new, never. Its financial suicide. Anyway, for the money you'd spend on a brand new motor that is slow as a snail, you could get a 2 or 3yr old motor with a lot more oomph and lose less per year on depreciation

Wait until the Government Savings Scheme finishes, they'll be falling over one and other to buy brand new cars. The 2nd hand market could be flooded.

Gatster

Wait until the Government Savings Scheme finishes, they'll be falling over one and other to but brand new cars. The 2nd hand market could be flooded.

True, but good spec nice 2nd hand cars around the max value of the SSIA will also be getting bought in droves. The comical Irish obsession of an 05 plate on a pile of airfixed Korean crap only afflicts a few people.

You can't really get a decent new car for the price of the max from the SSIA scheme. I know people will put it down as a hefty deposit but it should, in theory, buoy certain aspects of the second hand market. If you have something that is difficult to sell now, it could work for or against you!

bazz26

Yes motoring trade are expecting a bumper year next for new car sales similar to the "must have a 00 reg car" a couple of years back.

Anyway I find that smaller dealers outside the cities are often better to deal with than those in large urban areas. Most larg dearships also have a leasing company that hires out large volumes of cars to rental companies, as the tourist season is now drawing to an end fleets of 6 month old cars are now starting to flock to the forecourt. Most dealers advertise during the summer that they are having a large "clearance sale" in order to accommodate these cars.

By the way buying a 6 month old ex-hire car can make alot more financial sence than buying a new one. You can save yourself a couple of thousand euros in the process and the car still has the balance of the manufacturers warranty. Make sure you have the car well checked out by a professional though as alot of these cars could have been driven hard or bumped and bruised.

masterK

bazz26 wrote:

By the way buying a 6 month old ex-hire car can make alot more financial sence than buying a new one. You can save yourself a couple of thousand euros in the process and the car still has the balance of the manufacturers warranty. Make sure you have the car well checked out by a professional though as alot of these cars could have been driven hard or bumped and bruised.

That's exactly what I did last year, I bought an 11 month old ex-lease Almera with only 7,000 miles on the clock for 5,300 less than the price of a brand new one. I couldn't believe the difference.

dealgan

I'm always amazed at the very very low trade-in values offered, but when you go looking for a used car the prices are high.
Its no wonder dealers are left with stock.

Makes no sense to me .. (like most things )

Where od all the cheap used cars go ?

mike65

dealgan wrote:

Makes no sense to me .. (like most things )

Where do all the cheap used cars go ?

They are bought up by enterprising back-street/roadside traders who have very low overheads (a field/big shed) and ready cash. The franchise garages get thier back lot cleared out for cash. The dealer gets decent €3-5 grand cars that shift pretty quickly to ppl who can't afford new metal or just don't want to set fire to a suitcase full of 50s!

Mike.

BrianD3

Re: the reasons for buying brand new cars. I think it has little to do with snobbery or having to have a 05 plate to impress the neighbours. The main reason is that so many 2nd hand cars (even newish ones) are nails. Many Irish drivers have no mechanical sympathy, drive the sh1te out of their cars on bad roads and don't maintain them properly. Clocking, overloading and bodged crash repairs are rife as are crap/dishonest garages.

All of this results in crap, unreliable 2nd hand cars. It's no wonder people are willing to put up with big depreciation so they can have a new car with a manufacturer's warranty.

Even 2nd cars that may appear outwardly good have probably suffered abuse. Eg I know people who always buy new and trade in their cars after about 30k. The clock may say 30k and the cars look grand but with the the way they are driven the clutch and gearbox have the equivalent of about 150k on them. Of all the car owners I know, there are only about 2 that I would consider buying a car off.

bmoferrall

Good point BrianD3.
Most drivers I know don't adjust their driving style according to road surface; they'll plough on over potholes, ruts and drains without slowing down.
When the interior starts to rattle and the suspension starts to squeak after a few months ownership they moan about bad build quality.
Personally, I'm happy to pay a premium for a rattle- and squeak-free car, in the knowledge that sympathetic driving will keep it that way.
There's a skyline-owner around my way who seems to permanently redline his car; God help the sucker that inherits his car.
If you can find a car that will keep you satisfied for 7+ years it makes sense to buy new in this country.

Plate-obsessed people who buy new every year are in a completely different category.

el tel

BrianD3-you're dead right.

I think many drivers only feel secure when buying a new car as they would have no faith in a second-hand vehicle. Given that the same new car buyers don't even know how to drive with mechanical sympathy let alone open the bonnet of a car it would seem that they are the very ones contributing to the number of used heaps out there.

On a side note regarding dealers and the faith people place in them -
On numerous occassions I've taken my cars back from a service (to maintain the warranty) only to have to repeat the job properly myself.

Gatster

Many Irish drivers have no mechanical sympathy, drive the sh1te out of their cars on bad roads and don't maintain them properly. Clocking, overloading and bodged crash repairs are rife as are crap/dishonest garages.

As someone else said, buy secondhand in the UK. I think in all honesty buying second here is an absolute minefield unless you know a reasonable amount. By definition of population size in the Uk there are more dodgy dealers, but the flipside is there are many more good and genuine cars.

unkel

prospect wrote:

PM 'somebody' if you would like the official valuation.

I'll sure keep that in mind

kluivert wrote:

Gf buys a 01 1L Corsa by a Opel Dealer for €6000 back in June 04.

A year later she wants to buy a bigger car so she goes for a 1.2 03 Astra that the same dealer has.

She asks for the value on her Corsa for the trade in, reply: €6000.

She takes it as thats what she paid for it. And... we left the dealer laughing in her new car.

I think they make it up.....

Nah they don't make it up. The Astra she bought had say a pricetag of €11k. The dealer would have been happy to sell that for €9.5k. By giving her €6k for the Corsa (he'll only be able to sell that for say €5k), he's achieved his target

Stekelly wrote:

But if everyone took that attitude there wuldnt be any 2 or 3 year old cars for you to buy.

Exactly! Buyers of new €100000+ cars are my heroes

Dilbert75

But I have a limited amount of sympathy for people who go out and buy certain* brand new cars which everyone with any sense knows have rubbish residual values and will be worth peanuts after a very short while.

Funnily enough, I know a driver of a "prestige" car - a BMW. In 2003 he traded his 01 530d for.... an identical 530d. It cost him (or he admitted to paying) €20k. In 2005 he traded his 03 530d for..... a 525d. He again admitted to paying around €20k (I suspect nearer €25k). So four years motoring depreciation cost him a conservative estimate of €40k, or €200 a week. In depreciation. That would pay three times over the car loan I got to pay for my 02 Citroen Picasso. And its not even nearly three times the car, not even twice the car.

unkel

Dilbert75 wrote:

So four years motoring depreciation cost him a conservative estimate of €40k

That's €10k per annum depreciation for driving a brand new large premium executive car and changing it every two years. Do the same thing with e.g. a €32k Renault Laguna and it would cost you maybe €7k depreciation per annum, so he didn't get that bad a deal at all

John R

Dilbert75 wrote:

Funnily enough, I know a driver of a "prestige" car - a BMW. In 2003 he traded his 01 530d for.... an identical 530d. It cost him (or he admitted to paying) €20k. In 2005 he traded his 03 530d for..... a 525d. He again admitted to paying around €20k (I suspect nearer €25k). So four years motoring depreciation cost him a conservative estimate of €40k, or €200 a week. In depreciation. That would pay three times over the car loan I got to pay for my 02 Citroen Picasso. And its not even nearly three times the car, not even twice the car.

I suspect most of the BM heads here would disagree on the last point.

Also at the end of that €40k he still had a new 5 series, what will you have by the time your car loan is paid off? A car that has depreciated into nothing.

Buying new is a sink-hole but so is buying the wrong car at any age. Carloans are not a fantastic idea either.

lomb

best bet is buy a 6 year old premium car like a 7 series or s class (although they are dearer) if u dont have a family a 840i or sl280 or sl320 brought in from the uk at the right money are sane choices and if sold within a year or two assuming bought at the right price will ensure nearlt depreciation free high class motoring.

no one can seriously say a newish 525d is a better car than a 99 sl320 or 99 840i?