Bmw 840i

lomb

anyone ever driven an 840i or any comments, they are going cheap in the uk ( under 7 grand for 95 with a new non nikasil 4.4v8 motor with FBMWSH)

Gatster

A friend in the UK had one in about 1997 and liked, it was his first expensive car (in a sickening procession of 911's, a couple of ferraris since). Now he swears by 911's though...

I was in it but never drove it, but they are a bargain on the UK at the moment, what's VRT like?

lomb

Gatster wrote:

A friend in the UK had one in about 1997 and liked, it was his first expensive car (in a sickening procession of 911's, a couple of ferraris since). Now he swears by 911's though...

I was in it but never drove it, but they are a bargain on the UK at the moment, what's VRT like?

vrt isnt much about 5 thousand euro, the car is 6500 stg so all in its 15k euro, not alot for an individual, powerful and unique car.

kdevitt

Drove my bosses one - cost him €128,000 back in 2000. Nice, deceptively fast - its a grand tourer rather than an out and out sports car. Was looking at one myself - insurance is the same as my 328ci, servicing would be slightly more I think though... not many around, if you can afford to run it, go for it

kdevitt

Where are you looking at these by the way?? Was just checking out the UK autotrader, and any 840ci's I can see for under 7K have been to the moon and back...

lomb

autotrader.co.uk, put hu52ae in post code put in minimum of 6 and max of 7k for price and select nationally for distance, theres one there for 6750, there are a lot of dreamers there trying to get 15k for a 96 one, but they are only that dreamers, also on home page of autotrader is used car values, key in the details of the year u want and u will see 7 is a fair price for a 1996 8 series. anyway im looking at merc SLs as well, very nice 99 ones for reasonable money with high spec like panoramic roofs.

also 1999ish jag xkrs are fairly reasonable, i was driven in a recent xkr cabrio and the acceleration and interior quality were immense. wonderful cars with 400BHP engines, and gentleman interiors. power is truely insane. joe average doesnt know what he is missing driving his 1300 cc corolla around... true running costs are high but if u can minimise the depreciation then u truely can drive a millionaires car for the running costs of a new avensis...

Fabritzo

I always turn my head to see if they are a V12 850, that's the one I'd be looking out for, I think they're rare though?

ds20prefecture

lomb wrote:

anyone ever driven an 840i or any comments, they are going cheap in the uk ( under 7 grand for 95 with a new non nikasil 4.4v8 motor with FBMWSH)

Got a lift in an older 850i once. Very handsome, understated car. Serious mile eater, in the mould of the Porsche 928 (also a good buy). They dated very quickly when new, but I think they've matured nicely. Avoid the ones with Buffalo Hide interior - they're a bit too kitsch

lomb

hmm 850i isnt one id go for, the 840 is said to handle better due to the lower weight up front and is almost as fast. also it has a much more sophisticated auto box with 5 speeds as opposed to the 4 speed v12.

the 850csi is a different beast altogether though that is a rare and still very desirable car. still its oldish technology, todays xkr is a FAR superior car with 400Bhp delivered like a jet turbine. Now that was a memorable drive for me, forget ferraris and porsches that was gentalmans club/first class with immense power, handeling and style. life really is good at the top, the rest of us mere mortals can enjoy cars of that very very high caliber by buying used cleverly after thourough research...id say a 1999 xkr cabrio would probably give a new aston martin vanquish or db9 at 10 times the price a run for its money in terms of driver satisfaction, looks and power.

unkel

lomb wrote:

hmm 850i isnt one id go for, the 840 is said to handle better due to the lower weight up front and is almost as fast. also it has a much more sophisticated auto box with 5 speeds as opposed to the 4 speed v12

Yeah agree, the 850 Ci V12 doesn't give any performance increase really over the 840. The 4 speed autobox in the 850 was replaced by a 5 speed box in '96 BTW

As you've been saying many times yourself, if you can afford the running costs, go for it!

Why the change from advocating a 7 series to an 8 series though?

Also the Jaguar XKR with the 375bhp (late '98 or later) would be a lot more expensive (and probably a lot more expensive in VRT) than the 840

lomb wrote:

true running costs are high but if u can minimise the depreciation then u truely can drive a millionaires car for the running costs of a new avensis...

I presume you mean total costs in the last bit of that sentence. If so, you generously overstate the running costs of a car like that

It all depends on your annual mileage but I would estimate the total cost of ownership over 3 years with low mileage (<10k miles per annum) to be the same for a 7/8 year old flagship BMW saloon or coupe compared to buying a 2 year old Toyota Corolla (yawn) and keeping it for 2 years. Main assumption here is that you have full NCB and full license and the low mileage

unkel

Oh and performance cars turned into cabrios are really only for poseurs / tosseurs

bmoferrall

Expect 'Tony the tiger/gold medallion/rug of chest hair/bottle of perma-tan' style comments from some, ahem, ill-educated and jealous types.
I've always liked the look of the 8-series; great road presence and not overly ostentatious.
I think I'd be aiming for the V12-engined model, if I was in the market for one.
Bear in mind that the back seats are useless; you'll need a shopping trolley as backup to lug the kids around.

Seth Brundle

Id love a V12 model also but the way petrol prices are going here, it wouldn't be a daily driver!

bmoferrall

Fair point. Economy for the V12 is given as 14/20mpg (urban/motorway). Not really suitable for stop-go traffic in today's climate.

http://www.automotivearticles.com/123/Not_So_Great_a_Boulevardier_.shtml

lomb

the 840i handels better as its lighter up front. also would put less strain on suspension bushes that the 850i eats for breakfast ..expensive....

also parts on the 840i are interchangable with the 740i so no problem if say the motor blows up or what not.

Seth Brundle

Are there many 850s here?
I think Frank Keane has/had one
....quick google - brb...
http://irishcar.com/ICOimages/fkeanegall/
few other nice motors (M1 - mmmm*)

* I hope to have Martin Birranes M1 Procar released from museum duty for the next BMW Club track day in October

lomb

unkel wrote:

Why the change from advocating a 7 series to an 8 series though?

Also the Jaguar XKR with the 375bhp (late '98 or later) would be a lot more expensive (and probably a lot more expensive in VRT) than the 840

youth! in one word the 8 series, xk8/xkr , and merc sls are younger peoples cars, cars for people without familys and inspire passion. but the 7series particularly at current low prices for 98/99 one is a total bargain in ireland.

also im thinking of spending time in the uk, so want to dodge as much vrt as possible and 'make' on it. so the higher the vrt here for that car the better. vrt on 7series cars is very low, only a few grand. so im not buying one of them. id consider an sl as i doubt il lose much on it. the xkr would be my preferred choice and then an 840i followed by a sl320.

il testdrive the sl to see what i think of it, if its nice il go with that. i still think its a very special car i know u disagree unkel

lomb

kbannon wrote:

Are there many 850s here?
I think Frank Keane has/had one
....quick google - brb...
http://irishcar.com/ICOimages/fkeanegall/
few other nice motors (M1 - mmmm*)

* I hope to have Martin Birranes M1 Procar released from museum duty for the next BMW Club track day in October

quite alot yes, most imported from the uk, but i wouldnt touch an irish one or one that had spent a lot of time here. no one looks after cars here, its the irish mentality, there was a guy on boards recently that had a new corolla for 3 years and never once even changed the oil...

as i say i wouldnt touch the 850i, so what if it has a v12, the v8 840i with its 4.4liter v8 is more than anyone needs and is relatively fuel efficient.

Seth Brundle

lomb wrote:

youth! in one word the 8 series, xk8/xkr , and merc sls are younger peoples cars, cars for people without familys and inspire passion.

translation - unkel you are an old slipper & cardigan wearing, family man!

lomb

kbannon wrote:

translation - unkel you are an old slipper & cardigan wearing, family man!

exactly! cant see myself in one yet but maybe someday

unkel

lomb wrote:

youth! in one word the 8 series, xk8/xkr , and merc sls are younger peoples cars

Don't agree with ya there, especially jag XK and merc SL are usually for older gentlemen (empty nester) after having driven the saloons for a long time. Think second house in France / Spain in a car that will rarely do >100km/h and the cabrio option is starting to make sense

lomb wrote:

im thinking of spending time in the uk, so want to dodge as much vrt as possible and 'make' on it. so the higher the vrt here for that car the better

Makes perfect sense. Aim for a high vrt car that you can sell on for a profit after moving back here

lomb wrote:

il testdrive the sl to see what i think of it, if its nice il go with that. i still think its a very special car i know u disagree unkel

No, don't disagree. SL is surely a great car. I just feel the design looks about a decade older than the 8-series, but there's nothing wrong with that per se. As you said beauty is in the eye of the beholder

kbannon wrote:

translation - unkel you are an old slipper & cardigan wearing, family man!

LOL, but please shoot me if you ever see me in a cardigan on slippers

stratos

Wait............ Rubs on aftershave, puts on medalions.
Hey Lomb ya got me really interested in this.
I have always loved the 8 series and presumed they would be cheap by now.
I saw one in a local garage and thought wow here we go, I went in and the guy was looking for the 25000 pounds (ir) at the time. I walked away and filed it under another dream broken.
I'm gonna ring the vrt office on this and get an on the ground price worked out.
There are just one or two thing that bother me, is every nut case going to try and steal it.
Also how fragile are they, could it be a daily runner ?
Can it be diy looked after.
Otherwise an awesome looking car.

lomb

yes can be a daily runner, many have gone to 200000, but a warning is stear clear of the 850i, as its got a VERY heavy engine it damages its suspension bushings in no time, and changing these isnt really an easy task.

the post 96 on 840i is the one to get dont go earlier than that. the engine fitted to it, the 4.4v8 is the newer non nikasil motor and can do 200000 miles without trouble. the auto box is sealed for life and is bulletproof.

to be honest id say for a decent one say a 96 840i with 100000 miles on it the cheapest u are going to get it for is 5500 or 6000stg with full service history, vrt is on www.ros.ie and for the 96 one works out at 8000 euro, so u are looking at 18000 euro for a reasonably good one. if u do buy it get the engine compression tested, and the fault codes interogated, as well as checking all electrics, and checking smoothness of the auto box and any suspension noises.

it is still a lot of money but its a lot of car, they sold new for 120000 euro afaik.

HashSlinging

nice car a bit cheesy though. sort of says "trying to hold onto youth". it might look good parked outside cafe en seine, renards or whatever LOL

lomb

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=247718
some really nice pics there of an irish one

lomb

just checked insurance here... its get this 1350 euro on a 4.4 740i which is very reasonable and 3500 on a 840i with the same drivetrain, compared to 1500 euro in the uk. hmm will have to reconsider it although i can easily afford it over there. it seems they load 'sports cars' and convertibles here, even though i wouldnt regard the 840 as a sports car. xk8/xkrs are heavily loaded also as are the merc sls, looks like they want people to drive corollas

unkel

lomb wrote:

the post 96 on 840i is the one to get dont go earlier than that. the engine fitted to it, the 4.4v8 is the newer non nikasil motor and can do 200000 miles without trouble

Agree. I had the M60 V8 engine ('93-'96) in my previous car and although a fine engine, it can suffer from the Nikasil issue (beware when buying a UK import!)

lomb wrote:

just checked insurance here... its get this 1350 euro on a 4.4 740i which is very reasonable and 3500 on a 840i with the same drivetrain, compared to 1500 euro in the uk. hmm will have to reconsider it

If it's going to be an E38:

The M62 V8 ('96 onwards) does not suffer any known issues. There are two flavours of this engine: 3.5 liters (not in the 8-series) and 4.4 liters. I have the former in my current car. Note that performance difference between the two is not big, although the 4.4 shaves about a second of the 0-100km/h acceleration. Tax and insurance will be the same, petrol consumption slightly higher but this is insignificant in the scheme of things. Second hand price difference after 9 years is negligable

One note: make sure you get an executive. When the previous owner of my car imported it, the VRT did not recognise it as such, saving him a small fortune

Furthermore, the original extra cost of the executive pack itself is less than what you will be paying for the whole car

lomb

cheers unkel for advice, if im going to get a saloon i reakon il get a s430 say 2000 new shape. excellent car for little money in the uk. the 7 is very nice but i reakon the s maybe has the edge? in any case the s is still in production now.

the problem with 8 series type cars is u really need another car thats safe when parked etc. i might just buy a toy while im there like an 8 or xkr and sell it when i leave. i reakon classics are the way to enjoy depreciation free high class motoring in ireland. everyone is out to get u here 4 grand for insurance is mad, add that to 1400 tax, 2 grand depreciation and 3 in fuel and u are up to 10 grand. which is alot for a 'toy'. what id love an e type 4.2 series 2 cabrio, but 45 grand is ALOT of money to have in a car even if the money is 'safe' thats an absolute dream weekend car...

unkel

lomb wrote:

cheers unkel for advice, if im going to get a saloon i reakon il get a s430 say 2000

Very interesting turn! The W220 is a lot more modern looking than the E38 imho. I love its looks

Some people have told me it is a good drivers car, but I cannot imagine it is a better drivers car than the E38. Having said that, it is definitely on the short list for my next car. Like yourself I would only consider an S430 or an S500 V8 petrol

I have yet to drive one, been a passenger in one and wasn't that impressed, but in fairness it was only a S320 petrol. Before even considering buying, I would have to take it for a very extended test drive. Also, I dunno about the UK but in the Irish market, there is a substantial price difference between similarly specced / aged E38s and W220s. Not convinced at all it is justified

lomb wrote:

in any case the s is still in production now

As I posted on the other thread, nope, production stopped a while ago

lomb

unkel wrote:

As I posted on the other thread, nope, production stopped a while ago

true true , i also was a passanger in the 320cdi, and i wasnt especially impressed mainly because of the diesel rattle, i drove the old shell s320L and apart from being DEAD with a D, it was a VERY VERY fine car. in 500 form i think i would have LOVED it.

the newer one looks beautiful and i reakon in s430 form should be a very nice car. i think prices are similar for mercs, jags and bmws of around 1999 or 2000 in the uk, the bmw is a little cheaper but not hughly. we are talking 12 ish grand for a 2000, interestingly a 2000 xkr with its 400bhp engine is 17 stg, which is very tempting. the 840 is also very tempting at 8 grand for a good one. the sl is also an option, but u are right its looks have aged more than the 8 series and the xk well thats still a production car and is similar sort of money.

it really is open season on supercars in the uk, its like a kid in a candystore, 10 grand buys a dream

unkel

lomb wrote:

its like a kid in a candystore, 10 grand buys a dream

Isn't it just

Two guys owning two different companies in the one project I'm currently involved with own SL55 AMGs. And yes, as per my comment in the other thread, they are of a certain age

Surely one hell of a finely tuned engine! Does anyone know the first year the S55 AMG was available in the UK / Ireland?

And, lomb, have you driven any E38?

The only one I've driven is my own car and it was modified by an aftermarket company. The car was lowered, the suspension was stiffened, the brakes upgraded and fitted with 18" alloys (standard 16"). I have no idea how or if at all this improved the ride

lomb

been a passanger in one unkel, thats about it (740i 4.4). im sure your sports suspension adds to the handeling but im sure it slightly takes away from ride quality.
also tyres arent cheap when someone upgrades the wheels.

so these guys with sl55s what age are they and can i ask roughly what sort of insurance do they pay. im amazed the number of cabrios out there like even say peugeot and renaults. do insurance companies not load these heavily?every website i have checked say the quotes dont apply to sports cars, cabrios and any car above 5000 cc or 75 grand value.

thats probably why cars like s430, 740i, xj8 are reasonable money to insure?

hawkmoon269

lomb wrote:

true running costs are high but if u can minimise the depreciation then u truely can drive a millionaires car for the running costs of a new avensis...

Point taken regarding the depreciation issue, but running costs of the likes of an 840i the equivalent to those for an Avensis? I don't think so, unless you're including depreciation in your definition of running costs. Let's say 15 mpg - 18 mpg petrol consumption for one of these cars with petrol at €1.05 per litre (or to put in another way, €4.80 per gallon), €2,000 for insurance (say) compared to €300 for your average 1.3L boring mobile, €1,200 in motor tax and it's not surprising that Joe Public usually goes for the cheaper option. Not that I'd buy a new Avensis myself, or any other new car for that matter.

Do just 6,000 miles a year and your petrol bill alone could be €1,000 more driving a flash car compared to a boring one. Unless you never exceed 2,000 on the rev counter, but that would kind of defeat the purpose of buying a car like this. Add in the additional insurance and motor tax, that's an excess of say€4,000 per year. Close to €400 per month - some people pay less on their mortgages (well, if they were lucy enough to have bought their houses 10 years ago, that is). And that's not even including the routine servicing costs. Edit: Whoops just noticed you have made all these points yourself in a later post, ok never mind.

If course if you're driving in the UK at least your motor tax and insurance will be less, though balance that against the more expensive petrol, but overall I imagine it would work out a lot cheaper there.

Someone mentioned the Porsche 928 in this thread, they are among my favourite cars of all time, but just getting a 928 serviced by someone who knows what they are doing will set you back a fair whack, never mind if something goes wrong (and sooner or later, they will).

In short, I think there is a good reason why these cars are so deceptively cheap to buy.

The likes of yourself, or me, or any of us car nuts on here, will live with the extra running costs just to drive something interesting, but for Joe or Josephine Public who are just interesting in getting from A to B, there's a different kind of assessment involved.

hawkmoon269

lomb wrote:

thats probably why cars like s430, 740i, xj8 are reasonable money to insure?

Insurance companies do indeed load convertibles in this country, I was paying around €1,300 on an MX-5 with a mere 1.6L a few years ago for just TPFT and though I didn't quite have a full NCB at the time I wasn't far off it.

unkel

lomb wrote:

so these guys with sl55s what age are they and can i ask roughly what sort of insurance do they pay

Both in their late 50s or early 60s. I have no idea what they pay for insurance, but probably peanuts. Sure enough I'm in my 30s and got a quote of just over a grand for a brand new Porsche GT2 fully comp

Mind you don't stand a chance of a good quote like that unless you, like myself, have full (and I don't mean just 5 years, but 10 years) no claims bonus and having had a full license for approaching 20 years

Also on a new supercar, they will always demand a tracker fitted

hawkmoon269 wrote:

Do just 6,000 miles a year and your petrol bill alone could be €1,000 more driving a flash car compared to a boring one

Your spreadsheet got corrupted there mate

My E62 3.5V8 has done 21mpg since I bought it, the vast majority city traffic. Compare to say a Toyota Avensis 1.6 which under the same circumstances would do about 30mpg in mainly city traffic, the difference based on 6k miles per annum and €1.05 per liter is just €30 per month

Seth Brundle

unkel wrote:

My E62 3.5V8 ...

did you get another car?

Gatster

Bit of a left field suggestion and a bit of a tank in many respects, but very solid...

This is a 420 for £9k

lomb

Gatster wrote:

but very solid...

This is a 420 for £9k

http://langlovagok.hu/kepek2004/dernei/040220_dukamercedes.shtml
not solid enough in this case, 3 people died in this 600 coupe, 2 instantly and the driver on his way to hospital...was overtaking a truck when another truck hit him, was an italian driver, that says it all...

v nice car though

dahamsta

Mercedes: Not Solid Enough To Survive A Collision With Two Trucks

(Sorry, it just seemed a silly thing to throw into the discussion. How many cars would be solid enough for a collision with two trucks? Boring car though.)

adam

lomb

dahamsta wrote:

(Sorry, it just seemed a silly thing to throw into the discussion. How many cars would be solid enough for a collision with two trucks? Boring car though.)

adam

gives me the shivers looking at that so i dont think i would touch it, too big and bulbous for a GT anyway, even if its powerful

unkel

kbannon wrote:

did you get another car?

Doh, no. As you are very well aware indeed yourself, I got my E's and M's mixed up

LOL @ adam was gonna post something less funny but equally interested what the hell a wrecked MB CL had got to do with personal preferences



I much prefer the look of that myself compared to the SL

Cyrus

lol 1 grand extra for 6000 miles, better get the calc back out