BJJ v Judo

Kevin_rc_ie

Everyone I know who's trained in both of these sports says they are very very similar in terms of ground work when you're wearing the Gi. IMO, the Gi is fundamental to BJJ and again IMO, BJJ without a Gi is Sub wrestling. Although I understand this is highly debatable.

In Pride and similar, afaik, there have been a few "BJJ v Judo" match ups and again, AFAICR, the BJJ guys usually win, but from TKO due to striking. I've heard the Nogs and Gracies try and say "BJJ is better than Judo" (whatever that means) due to this fact. However, I'd dispute this because these Brazilians are pro MMA fighters while the Judo guys were washed up but accomplished in their time Judoka.

All the top judo people I know in this country love Judo groundwork and are fully aware it takes double the time to become a competent judoka on the ground then it does on your feet. I hoping to convince some of these guys to do the Irish BJJ thing in september.

Seeing that THE judomick is around I'd like to hear some of your views.

dlofnep

It's in October and yes, get them to enter the nationals and see how they get on.

Kevin_rc_ie

Well I'll go out on a limb here, but if the guys i'm thinking of do enter, and they don't win their respective categories, i'll eat my laptop.

dlofnep

Yeah well.. We'll see Kevin. No point in debating something that hasn't happened yet.

Kevin_rc_ie

I'm debating BJJ v Judo, their respective merits, similariites, differences. I'm not debating the out come of one competition. And the results of this comp. will hardly be definitive answers to this question. Should give you a surprise though.

I'll be interested to see if the other regular posters on this forum share your confidence. This almost leads me off topic to another frequently aruged question on these boards....style over substance, size over style, but i won't go there. yet.

dlofnep

I hope you have ketchup to go with that laptop.

Kevin_rc_ie

You assume way too much. At least I have some idea, however limited, about who's on the BJJ circuit, you don't have a clue who does judo.

dlofnep

It's only 99 cent in tescos.

Kevin_rc_ie

John I think we should let some other people have a chance to voice their opinion, i think you should have some quiet time now.

dlofnep

Half price with coupons.

Kevin_rc_ie

Well AFAIK, in Judo you perform no locks on anything other then the arm, so no shoulder, no ankle, no leg, no finger locks.
I think it's different in BJJ, though i'm not 100% there are any official BJJ rules.

Also in Judo you can't really neck crank, you can't do anytihng that puts pressure on the spine or try and make the head go in the wrong direction.

Obviously the guillitine choke is a choke but i don't think you can do this in judo, having said that, i'm not certain how easy it is to do on someone wearing a gi.

Kev

I think these are the rules http://www.cbjj.com.br/english/rules.htm

Why does it say no leg locks and no heel hooks for adult blue/purple, does leg locks only refer to kneebars ?

Kevin_rc_ie

I need someone to show me these rules, I think they're a little bit more complex. In Judo, you need to get a person into a hold down, have their two shoulders and back or one shoulder and their whole underside, bottom line is have full control and keep it for 25 seconds to win.

However, it appears in BJJ, you can gain points from throwing your opponent to the ground. Getting into the mount position, or passing guard or getting opponents back with your "hooks" in. THe crucial difference is these points will only come into play if you don't gain submission (like judo) but only when time has completed (unlike judo).

Personally speaking, I think I'd be much better in BJJ rules rather than the UCD sub wrestling rules.

Kevin_rc_ie

Illegal move: SLAM FROM THE GUARD

How come?

I jsut realised, will people need to have at least a BJJ white belt to compete in the competition in October?

Kev

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

Illegal move: SLAM FROM THE GUARD

How come?

I jsut realised, will people need to have at least a BJJ white belt to compete in the competition in October?

Same reason its not allowed in judo i assume, but there is no matte if you pick someone up off the ground.
White belts aren't awarded in bjj.

columok

Using the powers vested in me by the country of Brazil I dub you Kevin.....

BJJ White Belt.

Kevin_rc_ie

any links to the rules of this competition. can anyone just turn up and enter?

hey thanks colum.

dlofnep

http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~duffman/ROT/

Entry form is there. Submit it and you can enter. Rules are on the site.. They differ a little to judo, make sure you're aware of them.

Kevin_rc_ie

see you there ketchup boy.

i don't actually see the application form, nor a description of the categories. is it going to be weigh in just before you hop on the mat too?

dlofnep

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

see you there ketchup boy.

i don't actually see the application form, nor a description of the categories. is it going to be weigh in just before you hop on the mat too?

Hrm, should be soon then. Keep your eyes peeled on that site.

columok

Comparison wise...

BJJ (Typical Irish Gym)
-Advantages:
-Good ground work
-Good at no-gi rolling
-Good fluidity

Disadvantages:
-Less used to gi rolling
-Less versed in the clinch range
-Not used to certain Judo clinch tricks.

Judo (Typical Irish Dojo)
-Advantages:
-Good clinch
-Some clubs have good ground work
-Excellent with the gi


Disadvantages:
-Smaller range of submissions
-More reliant on the gi
-Certain Judo rules like standing up from submission on the ground can cause disadvantage

EDIT: And like wrestlers Judo guys tend to jump to turtle and can get themselves in trouble.

Clive

LMAO at BJJ vs judo threads!

Judo black belts are supposed to compete in BJJ comps at a minimum of purple belt (according to the Brasilians anyway) so it´s fair to say that judo has l33t skillz.

Burnt

Colum you want to be careful fo the turtle a few of the more experienced lads (read: old sneaky b#strads) and alot of the eastern europeans have developed it from a rather crappy defensive posture into a trap for the unsuspecting who are willing stick limbs in for a turn over.

Judo Heads also tend to be more agressive if thats the right word on the ground

Kev

How many purple belts are there in ireland, if a bunch of judo black belts turn up it looks like they will just be fighting each other.

columok

a few of the more experienced lads (read: old sneaky b#strads) and alot of the eastern europeans have developed it from a rather crappy defensive posture into a trap for the unsuspecting who are willing stick limbs in for a turn over.

See Paul Cummins in UCD a year ago sitting in turtle and laughing at me as I tried to do everything under the sun to move him and then doing something tricksy.

The problem is with more advanced people using unknown submissions (or techniques illegal in Judo) on the turtled up guy. Also in Pride rules you're ripe for a Wanderlei style kneeing.

Burnt

I dont disagree that for mma or "THE STREET" type situations you looking for a serious kicking, Mexian hat dance time.

I dont know if your familar with it but have you ever seen any of the Kosen (old school) stuff theres a few vidoes with Kimura floating around. It maybe of interest.

Kev

I have those videos, they are very interesting

breadmonkey

??Can I have a look??

Kev

Theres 4 videos in the set, about 200 meg each

dlofnep

Kev wrote:

How many purple belts are there in ireland, if a bunch of judo black belts turn up it looks like they will just be fighting each other.

Three at the moment and about 30 odd blue belts.

StrateBlastJim

Clive wrote:

Judo black belts are supposed to compete in BJJ comps at a minimum of purple belt (according to the Brasilians anyway)

I did not know that clive. You are so learned
The judo black belts who i have rolled against have shown very good ground games.

tonyrogdor

What is difference with Sambo and Judo?

Thank yous

Tony

dlofnep

Sambo includes leglocks and the uniform is slightly different.

tonyrogdor

Is sambo like the Judo throws?

Thank yous

Tony

dlofnep

Yes Tony, just like Judo but with leglocks.

john kavanagh

lol, good inflamatory thread

Judo/BJJ 2 sides of the same coin

rules/application forms will be on that site early sept.

Judo BBs must enter purple belt division.......as the comp will probably not have any purple belts there (unless a number come over from the uk, which is likely) there probably wont be any competition for them....will know more by the end of sept when we see what the interest is like.


in general (VERY GENERALLY SPEAKING!!) judo guys of equal lengh of time training and equal attributes tend to be better at throws and the bjj guys tend to be better on the ground. why is this? is it because one is brasilian and the other is jap? is it because bjj gis are so much cooler ??

of course not!!! its only down to the TRAINING METHODS TRAINING METHODS TRAINING METHODS. judo comp favours the throw......so DUH therefore they train throws more and are proficient in that range...and conversely BJJ comp favours the sub so low and behold, as incredible it may seem they tend to train more for the ground and therefore tend to be better at that range :eek: it aint rocket science :rolleyes:

dlofnep

Done and dusted.

Kevin_rc_ie

shut up jk you stupid bjj white belt i will kill you too, along with paul cummins.

columok

shut up jk you stupid bjj white belt i will kill you too, along with paul cummins.

I expect that as per usual the next time I meet Paul he will tell me a hilarious story about him beating up some internet jerk

Kevin_rc_ie

you must die too, your time will come in the morn. therefore i must sleep.

judomick

my opinion on this argument is as follows: judo and Bjj are essentially the same sport, i like to view it like this judo is 90% standup 10% groundwork, Bjj is 90%groundwork 10% standup. a couple of other points to note is that standing judo there is pretty much just one way of engaging the opponent (head on, Face to face) whereas in bjj there are several, mount bottom guard, top guard, back, half guard etc, this allows bjj to evolve so far indefinately in various directions(rubber guard, spider guard, x-guard) whereas judo hasnt evolved in any noticible capacity since the inclusion of russian style judo imo. leading to a more technical sport all round (there are judokas that train alot on the ground and have awesome skills!). If you roll with jk you will feel him flow (his movements that is!) and the same is true of doin standup with andy ryan or cummins as hes been mentioned, they flow standing up.

its a mute argument, just for the sake of anyone who doesnt understand me, in football you could ask the question which is better attacking or defending well both strategies have pros and cons but there part of the same sport, you just have to decide whether you want to attack or defend.....or both

vasch_ro

Hey colum can I Have a white belt too ?

Kevin_rc_ie

no the white belt is mine, i'll fight you for it.

yeah judomick speaks a good portion of the truth, someone give him a car.

Kevin_rc_ie

yeah well i did a little bit more BJJ today and the subtle differences are making them selves more and more prominent.

I'll still rather careless with my arms, this isn't a reflection on judo, but my rather flawed interpreation. my old judo coach says, if you stick those arms out like that against me, i'll rip them off and beat you with the bloody ends.

i should probably stop doing it.