Is Doyle Brunson a maniac??

jimbling

okay, I am currently reading Super System 2 and am absolutely flabbergasted at strategy of brunson. I mean it's close to going against everything else I have learned in poker.

I can understand the aggressive play, although I still find it difficult to put it into action (only tried a few times). But everything I have learned so far is to say that that method doesnt work. Then out comes brunson saying that you can't be successful without it.

I am confused . So I decided to put up this post and ask people.... what are you...
Are you a brunson or a Harrington..... I know people have to mix it up etc.... especially in a tournament. But generally there is a specific trait...

So far, the people I have come across here are generally leading towards the tight aggressive style... or maybe semi-loose aggressive (thats me)....

whats your VP$IP and your PF Raise stats?? and how do you think that strategy is working for you. Do you think you could change, or make more profit by changing??

Are you happy when you find a table with someone playing the brunson strategy?

I know that thats what I look for, a table with one or two of these kind of players is a goldmine.

Obviously if they were both as good as brunson I might be in trouble

So whats the story... is the tight aggressive game just for learning... then once you master that you grow looser as time goes by... become more aggressive when you feel you can outplay people etc...

I know its a bit of a ramble.... but hey... looking for answers

Culchie

There was quite a discussion on this before.
You certainly need a huge bankroll to play Brunsons way, but you it is difficult to argue with the legend either. Basically he states in that book,(paraphrase) " if I've got any sort of out, and I can break my opponent, I will go for it" ..... that requires a big bankroll.

Harrington is my poker 'model', I'm trying to shape my game around his core thinking.

jimbling

Culchie wrote:

Harrington is my poker 'model', I'm trying to shape my game around his core thinking.

as was I curlchie.... but reading super system got me thinking... and I'm still coming to the same conclusions. I am wondering if there is people out there... (on boards I mean) that play the brunson style.... and are successfull at it.

jimbling

Culchie wrote:

There was quite a discussion on this before.

Any ideas where I could find it?

Running Bing

Super system is always recommended as a read for beginning players and I think thats absolute madness. A beginning player trying to incorporate his strategies in a 25$ NL game without a sufficient bankroll could go broke very quickly. As culchie said its almost impossible to argue with him after all the guys made millions and consistently wins in the biggest cash games, but imo(which probably doesnt count for much ) some of his advice is a bit mad especially that stuff about rushes.


The impression I got from super system is that what it boils down to is by playing so aggresively you build a reputation and people fear you which allows you to pick up many pots. All very well if every poker player in the world knows who you are but how useful is that when playing a 10$NL game on the internet.

Theres no doubt that the book contains some top advice but I to would be interested to know if anyone out there plays the super system way.

Culchie

jimbling wrote:

Any ideas where I could find it?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=256739

azzeretti

I finished this book a while ago and I was tempted to post the same thing! (but I feared a pasting!)
I can't get my head around his way of play at all. Good to know others think the same!

Culchie

Well, I'm prepared to take a pasting, if it shortens the learning curve (and it has hopefully).

You get no benefit from the knowledge of an excellent pool of players here, unless you stick your head up and squeak.

The fact that I'm a stubborn mule and not particularly sensitive also helps

Keyzer

Doesn't he say that his wau of playing should be used against other "good" players and there is no point using his tactics against beginners as they won't have a clue what your up to?

jimbling

I also have no problem with a pasting... thats the best way to learn....

Culchie, I read that post... but its more a discussion about the value of the book than the strategy pushed by doyle.

I notice that the ones talking here seem to be all the guys on the learning curve.... or the begining of the learning curve...

can we have some comments by the more experienced players on boards??

jimbling

Keyzer wrote:

Doesn't he say that his wau of playing should be used against other "good" players and there is no point using his tactics against beginners as they won't have a clue what your up to?

Well not really, what he says is not to use it against calling stations (and thats only the bluff/draw ones)... there are beginners who are trying there best to play tight aggressive and will run at the first sign of strength.

I just can't see how his method will work, in the long run, against a group of good players.... but obv it does and I wan't to know how?
is he just the luckiest player alive or is it just that he is good enough to outplay the other good players post-flop.

AmarilloFats

it' so easy to misinterprete brunson...he is loose with his raises in positon... stealing small pots...developing an image.bbut, he also talks about "never playing" AQ.!!.
his core starting hands are the samew as Harringtons or whoever.. but he gives alot of action in order to get alot of action...he is also tlkin about big stack poker.where the biggest error is defining your hand.... he wasn't calling raises w/ 76s from a guy w/ less than 100BB..
i only read it the once.. i reckon one needs 2 study it..

Hectorjelly

Im going to keep this short. In general the way to making money at poker is to prey on your opponents mistakes. The average low/medium stakes player is too loose, so you win by playing tighter than him and value betting a lot. If you are at a table of very tight players then playing tight wont work. Your going to have to make a profit some other way, and usually that means pushing people of as many hands as possible.

mewso

Well I think Harrington actually covers it. You need to be able to play like either Dolly or Dan when the time is right. If I am surrounded by tight-passive players then I am going to come over them very often and push them off hands. You will spot these players easily enough given time. Like HJ says on the other side of things if it's a typical low stakes loose mad house then you tighten up and play sensible poker.
I have commented before about Super System. I think it's not a book people should recommend to beginners. You need to know enough about poker to form your own opinion on what Doyle is suggesting and how best to use his ideas. I am reading Harrington's second book now and I think he doesn't just present the tight/solid side of things as many would expect. He discusses very important concepts and introduces some ideas you might not be aware of. All in all an excellent 2 books and possibly the best out there for aspiring tourney players.

Earwig Eddie

whats the name of Harringtons book(s)?

jimbling

Earwig Eddie wrote:

whats the name of Harringtons book(s)?

Harrington on Hold 'em:
Volumn I : Expert Strategy for No Limit Tournaments - Strategic Play

Volumn II: Expert Strategy for No Limit Tournaments - Endgame

roryc

Maybe Brunson is just trying to get everybody else to play crazy so he can clean up.............

jimbling

roryc wrote:

Maybe Brunson is just trying to get everybody else to play crazy so he can clean up.............

lol.... thats got to be it

ocallagh

brunsons style as hj mentioned just won't work in low limit cash games.. especially on the net.. i've never tried it (on purpose) and it goes against my general style of play..

The closest i've ever come to adopting his style of play (and you have al done it too) is in MTT's when it gets down to 5 or so and the money really starts to climb with each elimination. Your stack covers everyone on the table at least 3 times over and you have no concerns about doubling up one or two of them.. In this situation it is very easy to play brunson style poker. Some people call it bullying the short stacks, but you're really just playing aggressive poker, brunson style. You are preying on their fear of elimination in the same way brunson uses the fear of going broke in cash games. I've seen xxxxxxx and one or two others do it in the €50 game in the Fitz. They sit down, have a look at the table and buy in for what the entire table has in front of them. They'll play 90% of pots and double up one or two players but more often than not clean the table out.

sry..had to edit to remove the name i had i xxxxxxx's place, but i know a few players in the fitz who could slot in there!

gdez

I also found is idea of rushes a bit mind boggling, I mean evertime he wins a hand he plays the very next hand regardless of what his cards are. That doesn't seem very practical, but I must try it sometime.
I don't think Super System was written with internet poker in mind, & I also think the majority of his tactics are designed for high limit cash games. And lets face it not many us are playing with amounts he is talking about.
It's certainly interesting reading though.