Awkward cash game hand

Hectorjelly

Real Money Ring Game
Table Name Hand ID Game Stakes
The Commitments 3451889-25345 Holdem No Limit $0.50/$1
[Jul 26 07:59:01] : Hand Start.
[Jul 26 07:59:01] : Seat 1 : purplefish has $85
[Jul 26 07:59:01] : Seat 3 : shade12575 has $21.50
[Jul 26 07:59:01] : Seat 4 : hectorjelly has $233
[Jul 26 07:59:01] : Seat 5 : ccrazy has $305.75
[Jul 26 07:59:01] : Seat 6 : lolol has $9
[Jul 26 07:59:01] : shade12575 is the dealer.
[Jul 26 07:59:01] : hectorjelly posted small blind.
[Jul 26 07:59:01] : ccrazy posted big blind.
[Jul 26 07:59:01] : Game [25345] started with 5 players.
[Jul 26 07:59:01] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Jul 26 07:59:01] : Seat 4 : hectorjelly has Ah Qd
[Jul 26 07:59:03] : lolol called $1
[Jul 26 07:59:18] : purplefish has 10 seconds to respond.
[Jul 26 07:59:21] : purplefish folded.
[Jul 26 07:59:22] : shade12575 folded.
[Jul 26 07:59:24] : hectorjelly called $0.50 and raised $5
[Jul 26 07:59:39] : ccrazy has 10 seconds to respond.
[Jul 26 07:59:45] : ccrazy called $5
[Jul 26 07:59:49] : lolol called $5 and raised $3 and is All-in
[Jul 26 07:59:49] : Under-Raise rules are now in effect.
[Jul 26 07:59:50] : hectorjelly called $3
[Jul 26 07:59:52] : ccrazy called $3
[Jul 26 07:59:53] : Dealing flop.
[Jul 26 07:59:53] : Board cards [5d 2s Qs]
[Jul 26 07:59:56] : hectorjelly bet $20
[Jul 26 08:00:01] : ccrazy called $20 and raised $20


Whats my plan for the rest of the hand. Ccrazy is a good player by VC standards, there is no chance he is bluffing or semibluffing because of the all in player. I think he either has an overpair (unlikely but possible), a set (which would fit in with his relunctance preflop) or a worse queen. We both have $200 behind to bet from then on.

Dave

Could he be on a flush draw?

karlh

yup i'd say big flush draw and looking for a cheap/free river

jimbling

flush draw - very doubtfull.

I would like to say set...but that means he most likely called with 5 5. Is that likely? most players would scrap 5 5 under a 5*BB raise. And QQ doesnt seem that likely as he would most likely have re-raised you pre-flop... and def wouldnt need to pause. The same applies for an overpair.

Although he could be using that against you because he had position, but still less likely than him having say K Qs.......


likely's my favourite word in case your wondering

Hectorjelly

There is a shortstack all in so there is no chance he is on a draw. He would just call with a flush draw.

jimbling

karlh wrote:

yup i'd say big flush draw and looking for a cheap/free river

ya, that is a possability as well... perhaps he called with A Js or something similar.....

Trampas

What did you do and what was the result of the hand

NickyOD

I like him on KQ. You said he doesn't semi bluff so its not a free card play. Very few players play the draw this way anyway. There's a slight chance he has a pair 55-JJ (higher pair unlikely) but most players would just smooth call in the hope you will slow down. The only other possibility is a loose preflop call with 22/55 and not knowing the player its hard to say if he would normally min raise the flop like this as most players at this level wait until the turn, but he might be afraid of the flush draw.

I'm still leaning towards KQ. I don't know how likely this player is to overplay KQ if you play back at him but I think you have more to gain by reraising this flop. I'd rather that than smooth call and hove zero idea where I am on the turn. Folding is obviously not an option just yet on this flop. Reraise.

Hectorjelly

I absolutely hate a reraise here. Either Im drawing nearly dead or he has three outs, and I know what they are. I cant see him calling a raise here with KQ or worse, all he will do is put me on an overpair and fold.

The pot is now $100. A proper reraise here is going to come close to commiting me.

NickyOD

Hectorjelly wrote:

I absolutely hate a reraise here. Either Im drawing nearly dead or he has three outs, and I know what they are. I cant see him calling a raise here with KQ or worse, all he will do is put me on an overpair and fold.

The pot is now $100. A proper reraise here is going to come close to commiting me.

So you're going to fold on this flop? The only reason you should call is if you are willing to fold if he bets the turn and I don't want to give him control of the pot when you could be ahead against a weaker Q. I want to know if I'm ahead and I want to know now. We won't be pot committed if we know he will only push with a set, but its an easier decision for you since you know the player better than I do. I see players at this level play QT/QJ/QK the same way.

henbane

I don't think your hand is good enough for the reraise. The range you have him on means your only winning a very small percentage of the time. Given your read, I would say fold unless you think you can take it off him if the board brings a spade. Call otherwise.

Do good players often make min-raises?

Hectorjelly

NickyOD wrote:

So you're going to fold on this flop? The only reason you should call is if you are willing to fold if he bets the turn and I don't want to give him control of the pot when you could be ahead against a weaker Q. I want to know if I'm ahead and I want to know now. We won't be pot committed if we know he will only push with a set, but its an easier decision for you since you know the player better than I do. I see players at this level play QT/QJ/QK the same way.

I dont mind giving up control of the hand at all. Why not let him value bet his second best hand. The only reason to raise here is to make the rest of the hand easier to play, and I can think of better ways to spend a $50/$70 bet that will only ever get called when Im beaten. I have always been averse to making bets that will only get called when im beaten.

Against some players, not ones at 50 1 anyway, maybe raising is better because they are bound to follow through with a pot sized bet on the turn. But I think 99% of players are going to slow right down with any Q hand.

In my mind there are a two different ways to play this.

Call and reavaluate based on how much he bets on the turn.
Call and lead the turn, fold to reraise.

NickyOD

Hectorjelly wrote:

Call and lead the turn, fold to reraise.

Ok, That's much better than my answer.

careca

I reckon you're ahead. I think like Nicky he could have KQ and wants to see where he is or possibly JJ,1010 and thinks you raised with AK. I agree with Nicky. I would reraise, maybe just another 20 and you'll def see where you are then.

does the fact that there is another all-in really come in to this, apart from the fact that he'll have to show his hand ? THe all in is only $9 so he can win more in the side bet ?

califano

id say he had 2 pair or else kk

Samson

rounders123 wrote:

id say he had 2 pair or else kk

I don't think he could possibly have 2 pair on a Q,5,2 flop, I know the quality of play on VC is bad, but as HJ points out in the OP, he's a good player (by VC standards).

Iago

Have to agree with Samson, can't see him on two pair on that flop, and I think that KK is pretty unlikely as well.

Without knowing the player I'd think about 55 or maybe KQs and unlikely as it is, possibly AQo...the $4 call preflop would fit any of those hands, particularly if he felt that lolol was going to come along for the ride, (which as shortstacked as he was is more than likely). If he doesn't hit the flop he can fold for a relatively small portion of his chips, if he does hit then he's in for a good payday.

Probably has you on JJ or TT if he's holding KQ or AQ. Of course if he has the set then he's not that bothered what you're holding because QQ is unlikely.

I think as hector said I'd be inclined to call here and bet the turn, folding to a reraise.

Hectorjelly

NickyOD wrote:

Ok, That's much better than my answer.

Yep unfortunatley I was wasnt thinking so clearly at the time. I checked the turn and he bet $8. At that stage I was sure I had best hand so called. We both checked the river. I was a bit annoyed at myself because I felt I left a lot of money on the table through my turn and river player. Im pretty sure he folds the flop to a three bet. He had QJ.

NickyOD

Hector if you'd led out on the turn how much would you bet and why?

Hectorjelly

NickyOD wrote:

Hector if you'd led out on the turn how much would you bet and why?

I think 25/30 would be fine. I dont want to bet too much because If I get raised Im throwing it away, but I dont want it to be so weak that it will induce a raise.

Lafortezza

Bet the turn if it's a relative blank, once you do you'll have shown a good amount of strength and if he raises again it's a safe fold. If he calls your turn bet try to check/call the river for cheap. If he has a set then the worst card for you is an A or Q.

NickyOD

lafortezza wrote:

Bet the turn if it's a relative blank, once you do you'll have shown a good amount of strength and if he raises again it's a safe fold. If he calls your turn bet try to check/call the river for cheap. If he has a set then the worst card for you is an A or Q.

Yep, I met the exact same scenario today with AK when I floped TPTK. Made the same play. Turn was a King. Ack!! No getting away from it and walked into the boat.