suicide bomber shot

Splinter

'SUICIDE BOMBER' SHOT

Police have shot a suspected suicide bomber at a tube station in south London.

Marksmen opened fire near Stockwell Tube station as passengers were evacuated. It is thought the man was killed.


Passenger Briony Coetsee said: "We were on the Tube and then we suddenly heard someone say 'get out, get out' and then we heard gunshots."

Sky News Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said: "There is no word on whether he has been killed or simply injured."

If the suspect is confirmed to be a suicide bomber, it would mark the fifth attempted terrorist attack on London in less than a day.

The is thought to have been either stepping on to the train or was on the platform.

Brunt said: "He was probably shot in the head. There is no confirmation of that."

Police have been given orders to shoot to kill if they believe someone is about to detonate a bomb.

Brunt said "The officer or officers involved in this clearly felt this suspect was about to detonate a bomb."

Tube services on the Victoria and Northern Lines were suspended at the request of police..


http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1189920,00.html

Culchie

This is just getting worse and worse, the floodgates have been opened now, these guys have declared war on Britain now I think.

flogen

I'm sure the police were as certain as you could be that this guy was a threat, otherwise the action will be one of the most controversial things they could have done.

Interestingly, the BBC has a quote from a witness which says the plain clothes police got the suspected bomber on the floor, bundled on top of him and proceeded to shoot him 5 times.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4706787.stm

Big Ears

Culchie wrote:

This is just getting worse and worse, the floodgates have been opened now, these guys have declared war on Britain now I think.

and to make it worse it seems they are British themselves .

Culchie

There was a very apt cartoon in The Irish Times the week Bush decided to go into Iraq.

In the first scene, it showed Bush with this axe wielded above his head and it was about to be brought down on this large worm marked with Al Queda all along it's side, with angry face depicting hatred.

The second scene showed Bush chopping the worm into pieces

The third scene showed all these pieces of angry worms scurrying away all with Al Queda along their sides again.

Moral of cartoon was the force used by moving into Iraq, on the false premise of tackling Al Queda, has just meant there are thousands of new young enemies, and there are all around the world now.

Trotter

flogen wrote:

Interestingly, the BBC has a quote from a witness which says the plain clothes police got the suspected bomber on the floor, bundled on top of him and proceeded to shoot him 5 times.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4706787.stm

Interesting.. I wonder will there be a backlash like there was in Ireland when the Gardai shot the armed robbers in Lusk.

Londoners seem to be fully supportive so far.. Basically the police have orders to shoot to kill if they think there is a person who is possibly about to detonate a bomb. It seems that we are looking at a new chapter in armed policing. Holding down a terrorist and shooting him dead. The shoot to kill policy has the go ahead in London from the senior police.

In my opinion, if he was a terrorist, then the actions of the police were to be expected, and will very likely be widely supported.

What do you all think... ??

flogen

If he was trying to detonate a bomb, it's hard to argue with the police actions; this cannot be looked at in the same was a regular criminal, where the above would be considered excessive force. Even had the police gotten a wannabe suicide bomber to the ground, there is always the danger that he could still detonate the bomb.

My only concern is that he was indeed a terrorist, and what basis that judgement was made on. I'm not going to question anything just yet but it would set a dangerous precedent if the man was found to be innocent.

Darren

I live in London.

A witness reported seeing the guy wearing a bomb belt with wires sticking out. If this is the case and the police shot him dead because they were in fear for their own lives or the lives of the passengers then I support them 100%.

KnowItAll

They were right to kill him but it should have been a hanging!

But really can you blame the bombers? They are being brainwashed by the out of control cult that is called islam.

dmck2886

Well I wouldn't say that islam is a cult but there are a few extremists who beleive that if they die in a holy war they will go to paradise! And it is up the muslim leaders to enforce that is not the right way of thinking.



If you ask me I think the world is gone ****ing crazy!

Big Ears

I disagree with the statement about Islam , the people brainwashing are extremeists and there are extremeists in every religion (G.W.Bush beleives he's doing Gods work )

flogen

there's a lot of truth in that Big Ears.
And dmck, while Islams leaders should be doing their best to show followers that this is not the right way, it will only get to a small few of the extremists. Any leader that says attacking the west is wrong will be condemned as a conspiriter and sympathiser by the extremist leaders. The best that can be done is to stop the seed being planted in the young before they go down that road.

Pepe LeFrits

Police have announced that the man had no terrorist connections.

NO BOMB LINKS TO SHOOTING

The man shot dead by police in Stockwell, south London, is not connected to the investigation into the attempted terror attacks in the capital.

Scotland Yard is yet to release the identity of the man killed by undercover armed officers.

A police statement said: "We believe we now know the identity of the man shot at Stockwell Underground station by police, although he is still subject to formal identification.

"We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents of Thursday 21st July 2005.

"For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets."

flogen

wow, that's not only embaressing for the police and tragic for the victims families but it also brings forward countless questions in relation to their actions and policies.

LundiMardi

they shot the wrong guy 5 times in the head. :eek:

Trotter

flogen wrote:

wow, that's not only embaressing for the police and tragic for the victims families but it also brings forward countless questions in relation to their actions and policies.

Yep.. its awful. But.. Would you have run away from the police in London yesterday if they shouted at you to stop? By running, he changed the situation from containable to shoot to kill.

Still.. I blame the bombers. The police are in an awful situation now where they have to choice but to use maximum force with minimum time to think. They were acting to stop a person they believed would kill 20 or 30 people.. their motivation cant be questioned.

The problem is now they may not shoot the next guy that DOES have the bomb. Its a big horrible mess and you've got to support the police because they have a sickening job to do now with this all kicking off in London.

flogen

Trotter wrote:

Yep.. its awful. But.. Would you have run away from the police in London yesterday if they shouted at you to stop? By running, he changed the situation from containable to shoot to kill.

Still.. I blame the bombers. The police are in an awful situation now where they have to choice but to use maximum force with minimum time to think. They were acting to stop a person they believed would kill 20 or 30 people.. their motivation cant be questioned.

The problem is now they may not shoot the next guy that DOES have the bomb. Its a big horrible mess and you've got to support the police because they have a sickening job to do now with this all kicking off in London.

Well indeed, he didn't exactly make things easy for himself, but he could have been a pickpocket or a fare dodger. It may sound silly, but it's possible. Maybe he was planning on doing something horrible and is just unconnected with the previous attacers.
It is true that police may now second guess in hectic situations, sadly there is a very thin line between taking action too early and too late.

NocturnalDonkey

Someone should change the title of this thread!

A Dub in Glasgo

NocturnalDonkey wrote:

Someone should change the title of this thread!......

.....to

'Innocent man shot 5 times in the head by a policeman whilest police pin him down on the ground'

Brendan552004

He was South American, not a bomber, just an ordinary Joe Soap, do we have to believe all the stories we hear. I think we are being senstised by the media. He is someone's son. What would you do if undercover armed special branch officers chased you, did they identify themselves, probably not.

They needed a media response, the same as, Bermingham, Guildford, Winchester and Gibralter. No wonder the Muslim population in Britain have a problem. What innocent muslim is next. We will monitor the situation and as a group let Tony Blair know.

As a group I dont think that anyone supports the invasion of Iraq, weapons of mass destruction etc. Is Iran next then North Korea, probably.

Is their a global plan, I think so, but maybe the bombings of the last few weeks will focus Tony Blair's attentions to problems closer to home.

KnowItAll

The police cannot be blamed. They couldn't take the chance.

Pepe LeFrits

It's sad but the police had to do their job to protect everyone else. I understand they shoot for the head in case the target is carrying explosives.

Running away from the police into a tube station is akin to a death wish given what has been happening lately.

flogen

It would be nice to get a full report on what actually happened.
From the bits and pieces that have been reported, the man was running, was told to stop by plain-clothed officers but he failed to comply. He ran onto the tube and tripped, was jumped on by numerous police and shot 5 times. The fact that the police took so long to identify him (or at least decide that he wasn't one of the CCTV men) suggests that a number of these shots were to the head.

Now, he could have been a fair dodger, perhaps he didn't hear the police and didn't want to miss his train. Perhaps he was a pick pocket and thought the plain clothed officer was just a do-gooder regular citizen. The problem is no one knows the full story.

mycroft

KnowItAll wrote:

The police cannot be blamed. They couldn't take the chance.

The guy was running while wearing a coat, not a criminal offence.

Your attitude reminds me of all the english people I spoke with on the day, the glee that they'd "got one of the bastards" was profoundly disturbing, your previous, "They should have hanged him" comments are this thread are telling, shoot first ask questions later, and damn the consequences

Running away from the police into a tube station is akin to a death wish given what has been happening lately.

And again, none of the police were in uniform, it's very easy to say what he should and shouldn't have done, however 3+ armed men ran at him, he's foreign, he's nervous on the tube, who knows what he was thinking.

luckat

Hmm, let's see. A young fellow living in a foreign country, in a really rough area, comes out of his place heading for work, and as he leaves his house a bunch of big guys dressed in jeans and leather jackets and the like and carrying big guns run at him screaming.

He probably thought they were robbers. In fact, given the terror in London right now, he might even have thought they were yet more mad bombers.

Witnesses (or those that I read about) didn't mention the guys shouting "Police", just "Get away" or "Get down".

What would you have done? You don't know they're coppers, you just know they're about 20 guys chasing you with guns.

A nightmarish death. God help his family.

Pepe LeFrits

mycroft wrote:

who knows what he was thinking.

Precisely. Nobody knows, and nobody ever will. I don't think there's much point in speculating about the victims state of mind because it doesn't matter now. It's how it looked from the coppers' POV, and given his behaviour I think they acted appropriately. They were also under intense pressure, for all they knew the guy had explosives underneath his jacket and was running into a train. From their POV, it seems he acted as a bomber would do and their hand was forced.

Luckat - that's some pretty serious spin you've put on your description of events.

mycroft

kaids wrote:

Precisely. Nobody knows, and nobody ever will. I don't think there's much point in speculating about the victims state of mind because it doesn't matter now. It's how it looked from the coppers' POV, and given his behaviour I think they acted appropriately. They were also under intense pressure, for all they knew the guy had explosives underneath his jacket and was running into a train. From their POV, it seems he acted as a bomber would do and their hand was forced.

Luckat - that's some pretty serious spin you've put on your description of events.

So basically the cops if in doubt should shoot? I travel on the underground every day and find that an uncomfortable situation.

The fact remains the police had circumstantial evidence to suspect he was a suicide bomber, and this evidence is, his skin colour, his clothes, and his reaction.

Do you think thats a satisfactory criteria to justify shooting someone in the head.?

Pepe LeFrits

mycroft wrote:

So basically the cops if in doubt should shoot? I travel on the underground every day and find that an uncomfortable situation.

The fact remains the police had circumstantial evidence to suspect he was a suicide bomber, and this evidence is, his skin colour, his clothes, and his reaction.

Do you think thats a satisfactory criteria to justify shooting someone in the head.?

I don't think the police had time to go through a check list and tick off the relevant boxes. A man they suspected of being a terrorist fled into a tube station when they attempted to confront him and were faced with the prospect of another bombing. Tragic but they couldn't take the chance.

mycroft

kaids wrote:

I don't think the police had time to go through a check list and tick off the relevant boxes. A man they suspected of being a terrorist fled into a tube station when they attempted to confront him and were faced with the prospect of another bombing. Tragic but they couldn't take the chance.

Okay lets break this down.

1. Why did they suspect he was a terrorist? He left a building, was wearing a coat and had a dark skin tone. Thats it, thats not justification for suspicion of terrorism.

2. They failed to stop him before he entered the tube station thats gross negligence on their part.

3. They were in part of london infamous for gun crime, a dangerous station.

4. They the police were in plain clothes.

So in your rational the police are entirely justifed to chance someone down, point a gun to their face, and unload five rounds if that person arrouses suspicion merely by being dark skin, wearing a coat and walking out the wrong doorway, and then panicing when faced with men waving guns in his face?