naughty isp advertising

dublinmonk

Imagine launched PAYG Broadband for 9.99 this morning in Dublin.

It also launched Always On broadband for 19.99

www.imagine.ie

odie

Here are the details, it's the same as Eircoms timed service, just cheaper monthly cost.

We need to get away from these timed services, and have always on fixed mothly charge same as we get with tv services.

Monthly Charge € 9.99
Connection charge1 N/A
Router rental2 (monthly) €2.99

Pricing relates to first time DSL subscribers using self-installation. Migrating DSL customers incur an additional charge of €99.99. Site installation cost is €150.00

Or Router purchase €44.99
Downstream speed3 1024k
Upstream speed3 128k
Contention rate 48:1
Allowance 20 Hours
Excess usage charge 3.5c per minute Up to a maximum charge of €35

And the contention rate is 48:1 - A bit on the high side I think

ButtermilkJack

Just had a quick browse, looks like you have to buy a phone package too, around €30? Am I wrong?

€19.99 ('always-on')
+ €44.99 (connection)
+ €27.49 (basic phone)
+ €44.99 (modem purchase)
+ €24.18 (line rental) < ?

Absolutely crap download/upload caps, only 1mb/128k speeds.

Am I missing something here or are we going backwards from recent BT/DigiWeb/Eircom :rolleyes: offers?

Sarsfield

That's not bad for light users. Never heard of Imagine though.

odie

ButtermilkJack wrote:

Just had a quick browse, looks like you have to buy a phone package too, around €30? Am I wrong?

Actually you are correct, I just went through their sign up process and hey presto - it's an all in one phone and BB package.

That is false advertising on their front page.

Advertising standards need a call methinks

Anytime for Less - €37.99
Anytime For Less Off-Peak - €32.99
Anytime For Less Basic - €27.49

Sarsfield

Yeah, just noticed that too. Very bad form not mentioning it until you're into the sign-up process.

Sponge Bob

odie wrote:

That is false advertising on their front page.

Advertising standards need a call methinks

Yes it is false, where is the mandatory modem rental ? it is actually €12.98 , see here .

The T&Cs are cack or sneaky or both , I'd say avoid Imagine until they provide some clarity and honesty .

monkeyfudge

This is the crowd who were giving out free €10 notes on Grafton Street this morning.

There is a thread over in After Hours on it.

Sponge Bob

http://www.imagine.ie/faqs.php (Item Number 10)

How much does Broadband cost?
Imagine Broadband 'On Demand'
First time broadband customers pay €9.99 per month for 20 hours usage. Thereafter, its €0.35c per minute.

Even if the T&Cs were written by a moron its scary that nobody sentient picked it up...unless its true:(

Jeez, now its €3.50 a minute

How much does Broadband cost?
Imagine Broadband 'On Demand'
First time broadband customers pay €9.99 per month for 20 hours usage. Thereafter, its €3.5c per minute.


What a bunch of gougers (or twats)

odie

Also noticed these guys are tied to the GAA - Grab All Association with their new Gaelic Telecom

http://www.imaginegroup.ie/gaelic.html

seamus

Is this the same imagine who were shafting eircell and were effectively forced out of the mobile market kicking and screaming?

Dizzyblabla

Aren't Imagine! the crowd that had a mobile phone thing out a few years back and went bust? I'll take a quick look...
If it was them giving out the €10 notes earlier, then they are using the same gimmick they did a few years back.


[edit] yep, found it! [/edit]

Exactly a year after his last venture was liquidated with a €10 million deficit, Sean Bolger has bounced back. The telecoms entrepreneur, who claims he was Telecom Eireann’s first competitor, hopes a deal with the GAA can be the money-spinner that has eluded him in recent years.

Bolger, an ebullient and open individual, is used to being written off. This time last year, he took a hit of "a few million" when Cellular 3, <b>a reseller of mobile phone minutes trading as Imagine</b>, was finally wound up after a series of court battles.

Around 150 people lost their jobs and 20,000 customers were left without a service when Imagine ceased trading. It was a blow that deflated Bolger, according to telecoms industry sources, but he quickly re-emerged with a new telecoms business.

found here: http://www.gaelictelecom.ie/press_article16.php

seamus

Dizzyblabla wrote:

If it was them giving out the €10 notes earlier, then they are using the same gimmick they did a few years back.

That's what I was thinking as soon as I saw this thread

Dizzyblabla

seamus wrote:

That's what I was thinking as soon as I saw this thread

great minds eh?!

odie

Exactly a year after his last venture was liquidated with a €10 million deficit, Sean Bolger has bounced back

A scam artist if ever there was one

seamus

He definitely sounds like a quick-buck maker. The mobile arm were liquidated after they bought minutes from eircell, then began trying to steal eircell's customers by undercutting eircell, using eircell's own airtime. I don't know what he expected to happen other than a big, raping, court case.

Gurgle

First time broadband customers pay €9.99 per month for 20 hours usage. Thereafter, its €0.35c per minute.

Maths time:
€10 for 20 hours = 50c / hour = 0.833c / minute

jor el

Sponge Bob wrote:

Yes it is false, where is the mandatory modem rental ? it is actually €12.98 , see here .

The T&Cs are cack or sneaky or both , I'd say avoid Imagine until they provide some clarity and honesty .

Seems it's even more. All packages come with Family Protection, charged at an additional €2.99 a month, bringing the cost to €15.97 a month. There's no option available to use your own modem so you either have to rent or buy one of theirs. From the RTE llink in a thread on Ireland Off Line it says

The company says its rate is a full €10 lower than the nearest competing offering in Ireland.

Which is a complete lie, their package is just over €4 cheaper than Eircom broadband Time when you take the extra mandatory charges into account.

Also, if you migrate from an existing BB you have to pay €99! What the hell is that about?

This is certainly nothing to jump up and down about, if anything they're even worse than Eircom with their lies.

paulm17781

Do you definitely HAVE to get the family protection thing? If so that's crap, I don't live with my family

You don't have to rent the modem from them, they will let you buy one on 44.

dublinmonk

It looks like Imagine's offer is addressing most of the comments in this thread.

- Router is optional
- Family protection is optional after the free period
- Contract is 6 months with 30 days notice
- PAYG excess charges are 3.5cents per Minute after the 20 Hours

The offer does include mandatory Line Rental and Calls which is cheaper than Eircom's which if it is the catch is not the worst.

The only comparable product in the market place is Eircom Time which seems similar with a base price of 19.99 going to 24.99 after 8 months

Their Always On product is cheaper than every other ADSL Bitstream based product out there (when you take the promotions into account). e.g. BT at 15 going to 30 after 4 months

For "dial up" customers trying out Broadband speeds for the first time this might be a good option.

jor el

I was going to post a reply to paulm17781's question but while I was typing, dublinmonk (whom I suspect is an Imagine employee) has posted about the changes that have just occured on Imagine's website. Now the router is optional.

dublinmonk wrote:

Their Always On product is cheaper than every other ADSL Bitstream based product out there (when you take the promotions into account). e.g. BT at 15 going to 30 after 4 months

Wrong, BT is €57 a month, normal price not a promo, for BBPlus and line rental. Imagine is €44.99 + 27.49 which is €72.48 a month, plus it has a lower download limit and a larger connection fee.

If you are an Imagine employee dublinmonk, then well done on listening to peoples comments and fixing up the website. It was full of errors a while ago. Also, since there is a per-minute calls option listed here which says "Or simply choose our per minute offer and enjoy discounted line rental." why not make that available to people who choose broadband aswell. Many people don't use the phone much for calls and so don't want to pay for bundled minutes that they don't use. That's why I choose BT's broadband and line rental only package, no bundled calls since I don't use the phone. Just a suggestion. €72.48 for line rental, broadband and calls is a bit much in my opinion.

crawler

dublinmonk wrote:

It looks like Imagine's offer is addressing most of the comments in this thread.

- Router is optional
- Family protection is optional after the free period
- Contract is 6 months with 30 days notice
- PAYG excess charges are 3.5cents per Minute after the 20 Hours

The offer does include mandatory Line Rental and Calls which is cheaper than Eircom's which if it is the catch is not the worst.

The only comparable product in the market place is Eircom Time which seems similar with a base price of 19.99 going to 24.99 after 8 months

Their Always On product is cheaper than every other ADSL Bitstream based product out there (when you take the promotions into account). e.g. BT at 15 going to 30 after 4 months

For "dial up" customers trying out Broadband speeds for the first time this might be a good option.

Do you work for Imagine?

kaizersoze

Wrong, BT is €57 a month, normal price not a promo, for BBPlus and line rental. Imagine is €44.99 + 27.49 which is €72.48 a month, plus it has a lower download limit and a larger connection fee.

BT BB Plus incl. line is now €50 which makes the difference even greater. He's got to be an employee.

CuLT

crawler wrote:

Do you work for Imagine?

I'd say almost definately.
Signed up today and so far his only purpose has been to pimp Imagine's broadband / telpehony service.

crawler

CuLT wrote:

I'd say almost definately.
Signed up today and so far his only purpose has been to pimp Imagine's broadband / telpehony service.

There are scary mod types out there!....beware the wrath Ah, sure competition is good either way...lets not knock it yet.

CuLT

crawler wrote:

There are scary mod types out there!....beware the wrath Ah, sure competition is good either way...lets not knock it yet.

Heh, it's not anything a normal user can't find by poking around a user's Profile page

This sort of competition, is imo, unwelcome. We already have enough shafters and Del Boy characters in Irish business as it is.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Migrating DSL customers incur an additional charge of €99.99.

Uhh, why?
Is this a standard thing for ISPs?

And I'm really missing the point of pay-as-you-go broadband... I know why it's a bum deal for the consumer, but what are they getting out of this?
Why does it make a difference wheather the line is connected or not... I thought it was only bandwidth usage that mattered?

1huge1

ButtermilkJack wrote:

Just had a quick browse, looks like you have to buy a phone package too, around €30? Am I wrong?

€19.99 ('always-on')
+ €44.99 (connection)
+ €27.49 (basic phone)
+ €44.99 (modem purchase)
+ €24.18 (line rental) < ?

Absolutely crap download/upload caps, only 1mb/128k speeds.

Am I missing something here or are we going backwards from recent BT/DigiWeb/Eircom :rolleyes: offers?

considering im on isdn because there no bb provider in my area i definetely would'nt be calling 1mb down crap

CuLT

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

Uhh, why?
Is this a standard thing for ISPs?

And I'm really missing the point of pay-as-you-go broadband... I know why it's a bum deal for the consumer, but what are they getting out of this?
Why does it make a difference wheather the line is connected or not... I thought it was only bandwidth usage that mattered?

From a technical standpoint, I'd surmise that with less constant connections the exchanges are freed up, allowing for a greater overall number of customers to be put on each exchange.

Outside that I can't see much. Each line will still take up one socket in the exchange. I'm guessing the decision is fuelled purely by the marketing department, ie, they know people (casual net users, not anyone who posts on boards.ie) will see that it's cheaper, think "20 hours? Sure, I don't spend that much time at the computer", and they sign up. As far as they're aware, they're getting on the broadband bandwagon, they'll be able to look up MyHome.ie or eBay that bit faster, and it's not burning holes in their pockets.

ButtermilkJack

1huge1 wrote:

considering im on isdn because there no bb provider in my area i definetely would'nt be calling 1mb down crap

No, you've taken me out of context. I agree, 1mb would be a great boost from dial-up. My point was re BB. It just surprises me that any company would even consider launching 1mb packages anymore, and especially trying to charge such high prices for them.

Note BT UK's very recent overhaul of all BB packages to 2mb. Shows the direction the Irish market will be heading soon don't you think?

EDIT:

jor el wrote:

If you are an Imagine employee dublinmonk, then well done on listening to peoples comments and fixing up the website....

yeh, suspected his motives from the start but you're right, fair play for listening to the people!

AdMMM

very very sneaky company. The prospect of €9.99 for the 20 hours does seem to be good, but then you see the T&C's which are ridiculous to be honest. If I was in the market for the time package, I would actually go for Eircom, despite my loathing for their overpricing of their Time product and their overly-aggressive marketing campaign to sell it!

OFDM

1GB upload cap says it all really.

Moriarty

Advertising bad, mkay?