Greg Bear / Iain m Banks

growler

Just finished Darwin's Radio by Greg Bear an interesting read though probably makes more sense if you had studied evolutionary biology or had a masters in genetics, often tough going with complex science involved throughout, thought it was a good plot but could have been a better book imo.

Now I've always avoided Iain M Banks ever since I read the Wasp Factory, which wasn't to my tastes , but a few mates have recommended his SF books, the Algebraist being one currently touted as worth a read. Anyone read this or his other SF stuff , and comments? I've run out of Fantasy books now so must move on to the Science part :-)

pwd

Some of Iain M Banks Sci fi is excellent and some of it is not toop great.

The culture novels are pretty fantastic. Read those.

Have a few books of his for sale in the books books boks thread in the general for sale forum.

Iain Banks writes in a couple of different styles, to the extent that it is like a completely different auther (maybe it is wouldn;t be the first time someone let someone else sell books from their established name)

ixoy

I'm a fan of Bear's stuff, so I'd recommend you check out the 'Eon'/'Eternity'/'Legacy' series in particular. 'Moving Mar's is a great one off and, if you feel like something a bit more cyberpunk, check out the 'Queen of Angels'/'Slant' series.

Also, ya know he's got "Darwin's Children" out? It's the sequel to "Darwin's Radio". I've not read it yet but I do agree that "Darwin's Radio" was very heavy on the biology, so much so that I saw scientists criticize it for that (not that it was inaccurate).

Iain M. Banks is good, but he's a lot less "sciencey" than Bear would be. The Culture novels, as said, are worth reading: 'Consider Phleabas', 'The Player of Games', 'The Use of Weapons'...

Also in accessible sci-fi, I've got to recommend Peter F. Hamilton. The Night's Dawn trilogy is terrific sci-fi on a large scale, although the one-off novel 'Fallen Dragon' is perhaps better written. His earlier Mindstar stuff is good too.

One of the best sci-fi series is Stephen Donaldson's Gap series - intricately plotted, not too science heavy, with some memorable characters. Five books to it, although the first is very short.

Finally, if you're really wanting to tackle something a bit weightier, try and get David Zindell's 'Neverness' and the subsequent 'A Requiem for Homo Sapiens' trilogy. Beautiful, lyrical, and philosophical works that actually make you think.

growler

just went out and bought Darwins children as they didn't have The Algebraist in stock , also got the new Robin Hobb one in hardback "shamans crossing".

Tried Donaldson many times, couldn't ever get into his characters though, may be time for a revisit.

pwd

I didn't like The Gap series except for the first book, although i did like Anghus Thermopylae a lot. This was a surprise because I love Donaldson's fantasy books.

Sci fi authors i like most are Arthur C Clarke, Asimov (although he gets a but predictable after a while), Gibson and Frank Herbert.

Read Dune by Frank Herbert. It is one of the best books I have ever read.

Nevyn

The likes of the wasp factory are pulished under Iain Banks by one publisher
and his scifi works are published as Iain M Banks by a differnet publisher.
Fitting as they are totally differnt in style and content.
The scifi is well worth reading.

ixoy

pwd wrote:

Read Dune by Frank Herbert. It is one of the best books I have ever read.

And the subsequent five books. It was the inspiration my boards username - it must be good!

monkeyfudge

ixoy wrote:

Iain M. Banks is good, but he's a lot less "sciencey" than Bear would be. The Culture novels, as said, are worth reading: 'Consider Phleabas', 'The Player of Games', 'The Use of Weapons'...

I really enjoyed Consider Phleabas. It's probably one of the most action packed books I've ever read... it's just one breathtaking scene after another and the whole book feels very cinematic. It's not really much of a Science Fiction book, more Star Wars than Star Trek really... but some of the alien species are very well realised.

madrab

monkeyfudge wrote:

I really enjoyed Consider Phleabas. It's probably one of the most action packed books I've ever read... it's just one breathtaking scene after another and the whole book feels very cinematic. It's not really much of a Science Fiction book, more Star Wars than Star Trek really... but some of the alien species are very well realised.

i agree, consider phleabas really has a bit of everything in it, one of my favourite books, but i think use of weapons hits you harder (even though its written in a wierd way)

CiDeRmAn

Never read an Iain M banks book I didn't like, the Algebraist is his latest novel outside the Culture sequence and one of his best, however his books as Iain Banks are of a more variable quality, thought The Bridge was fantastic but The Business was terrible.
His mate Ken McLeod writes some great stuff too, Stone Canal, The Cassini Division

The Lopper

I couln't get into Consider Phleblas, maybe i just didn't give it enough of a chance, however i read a non S/F book of Bank's, Dead Air, which i thought was marvellous.

pwd

i disliked dead air and the business, and thought the bridge was ok, but that malibu stork nightmares handled a similar premise better (by welsh)
The crow road, espedair street, complicity and whit are probably his most entertaining non sci-fi books in my opinion.
His sci-fi books are also vaired in quality I think. I don't remember which one was which oddly though. But all the culture ones were deadly

CiDeRmAn

Yes, and the names of the various ships in the culture series are fantastic.
A warship called "A Frank Exchange Of Views", one woild give the revolution a second thought seeing that particular vessel hove into orbit.
Not to mention the one that liked to mess with peoples heads, "Meat F***er" I think it is.
He has also written a rather excellent book on Scotch, nice!
And there was a compilation of music that shared the cover styles of his non-scifi books, he selected the tracks I believe.
Use of Weapons is one of the best SciFi books I have had the honour of reading, a true classic with such depth and scope to make much of the current product of this much maligned genre appear shallow and trivial.

Must get one of those chairs!

madrab

CiDeRmAn wrote:

Must get one of those chairs!

indeed

one of the bes moments in a book i have ever read

CiDeRmAn

But is it true that there will be no more Culture novels?
What a crime,
These books are worth at least 10 of every other title in my collection.

Everyone should have a drone, the more psychotic the better, again refer to use of weapons, fight in a bar, if my memory is right, pretty much one sided too, very sweet!

We know that Inversions is a Culture novel right!
I mean, I have had a couple of arguments about this and it is ok!

mcgovern

Use of Weapons was ok, didnt like Consider Phelbas at all.
I do like Greg Bear though, currently reading Anvil of Stars, follow up to Forge of God.
Not as good as the 1st one but still worth the read and better than any Banks I've read.

Karl Hungus

You know, I've read Iain Banks, loved the Wasp Factory, but I've never actually read any Iain M. Banks.

CiDeRmAn

Well then, get to it, if you like it dark, set aside some time and read Use of Weapons, simple as that. It should sort out any questions you may have about the authors scifi quality, heck the book is Literature as far as I'm concerned, reckon all who have read it would be in agreement there.

ixoy

CiDeRmAn wrote:

Well then, get to it, if you like it dark, set aside some time and read Use of Weapons, simple as that. It should sort out any questions you may have about the authors scifi quality, heck the book is Literature as far as I'm concerned, reckon all who have read it would be in agreement there.

I'd agree. You can definetely tell he's actually a good writer, and not just good with sci-fi. It comes across in the wit and sharp characters. It's more noticable because sci-fi is usually bereft of such things: most authors are good on concept, grandoise ideas, etc. - but sci-fi rarely lends itself to sharp humour or good characters. For example, I'm reading "Redemption Ark" right now - nice ideas in it, like them a lot, but the dialog is prettty darned wonky.

CiDeRmAn

Totally, all the greats in the field have had some trouble with characters, with only a couple of notable exceptions, micheal marshall smith, philip k dick.
The likes of asimov and clarke wrote of fanatastical places but were really rubbish at populating them!

CiDeRmAn

And no where is this more noticable than in tv sci-fi, awful stuff, when compared to its printed brethren, but thats another thread altogether I guess, I can see the trek fanboys now getting into a lather when you call there beloved show low brow!

Fenster

Inversions:

How many other people copped on that its actually a Culture novel?

stagolee

might not be a popular choice here but i have to say my favourite banks book was feersum enjine it was a nice mix of fairytale and sci-fi

CiDeRmAn

Paricularly when it sets in that it is a space elevator, a very very large space elevator.

Though a mate who is as big a fan of Banks reckons its his worst, takes allsorts I guess.

mcgovern

ixoy wrote:

For example, I'm reading "Redemption Ark" right now - nice ideas in it, like them a lot, but the dialog is prettty darned wonky.

Ah but you've got to love Reynolds! Far better than Banks imo and better than Bear too.

CiDeRmAn

Diamond Dogs/Turquoise Days was great but found his stuff a little hard going, anyone out there care to explain cryptonomicon to me? Tried to read it but reckon I have jus found the limits of my brain, Wow, come to think of it, it is rather cramped in here.

mcgovern

CiDeRmAn wrote:

Diamond Dogs/Turquoise Days was great but found his stuff a little hard going, anyone out there care to explain cryptonomicon to me? Tried to read it but reckon I have jus found the limits of my brain, Wow, come to think of it, it is rather cramped in here.

Thats Donalsdsons new book right?
Reading Snow Crash right now, good but not living upto its hype yet. I suppose if you take into account when it was written its impressive.

CiDeRmAn

Yeah, its a pretty recent one, but 100 pages in and I am trying to figure out why its in the Sci-fi section, or as easons call it, the fantasy next to the adult fiction section, just to keep all the embarrassing customers in one place!

ixoy

mcgovern wrote:

Thats Donalsdsons new book right?
Reading Snow Crash right now, good but not living upto its hype yet. I suppose if you take into account when it was written its impressive.

It's not Donaldson - it's Neal Stephenson! And it's not Neal Stephenson's newest either - that'd be the Baroque Cycle, a trilogy that's a loose prequel to 'Cryptonomicon'.

CiDeRmAn

So. could you tell me what cryptonomicon is supposed to be about, please ixoy?

mcgovern

ixoy wrote:

It's not Donaldson - it's Neal Stephenson! And it's not Neal Stephenson's newest either - that'd be the Baroque Cycle, a trilogy that's a loose prequel to 'Cryptonomicon'.

*goes red with embarrassment*

Thats what I get for posting in a hurry in work I suppose

Johnny Storm

CiDeRmAn wrote:

Yes, and the names of the various ships in the culture series are fantastic...

Yeah, they're great is there a full list of his ship names anywhere , do you know?
In the Algebraist there's an alien warship called the Mannlicher-Carcano LOL.
Obviously named in honour of Earth's most accurate, most rapid-firing weapon.

growler

CiDeRmAn wrote:

So. could you tell me what cryptonomicon is supposed to be about, please ixoy?

cryptology

ixoy

CiDeRmAn wrote:

So. could you tell me what cryptonomicon is supposed to be about, please ixoy?

Two storylines - one contemporary, the other in the 1940s. The '40s one deals mostly with cryptography and events in WW2, such as Bletchley Park. The modern one deals with a quest to find stuff There's overlap of course...

That's a VERY rough description. Read it for yerself

Fenster

ixoy wrote:

Two storylines - one contemporary, the other in the 1940s. The '40s one deals mostly with cryptography and events in WW2, such as Bletchley Park. The modern one deals with a quest to find stuff There's overlap of course...

That's a VERY rough description. Read it for yerself

Lets not forget the Hobbit dinner party scene.

ixoy

Fenster wrote:

Lets not forget the Hobbit dinner party scene.

I personally dug the exploding monitor description that took pages

madrab

if your really looking for an "interesting" read

try "house of leaves" by Mark Z. Danielewski



real interesting

Johnny Storm

Johnny Storm wrote:

Yeah, they're great is there a full list of his ship names anywhere , do you know?
In the Algebraist there's an alien warship called the Mannlicher-Carcano LOL.
Obviously named in honour of Earth's most accurate, most rapid-firing weapon.

Well to answer my own question, here's the list Iain M Banks ship names

madrab

Johnny Storm wrote:

Well to answer my own question, here's the list Iain M Banks ship names

i always loved the names of the ships, and especially the conversations between some of the ships in excession (that is when i figured out how to read them )

CiDeRmAn

Yup, some of those guys are just plain nasty, especially meat f**ker, but I reckon that drone in Use of Weapons takes the biscuit, what a psycho!

madrab

yep, especially,

how he plainly deniad that he enjoyed doing any of it, also his full disection & reapir of the main characters brain at the end was brilliant

Mantel

madrab wrote:

i always loved the names of the ships, and especially the conversations between some of the ships in excession (that is when i figured out how to read them )

The conversations between them in Excession where great, not one of his greatest but those conversations where great. Took a minute or two to get my head around the first one.

The name Meat ****er was great, the way the others talked of it with a certin disgust.

I've found the books by Alastair Reynolds are another good read, the first one was great, paints a picture of an advanced city twisted in to an organic, gothic nightmare in the parts where a plague has infected the buildings and any nano technology it comes in contact with. The story continues on a bit in Chasm City and both books link togehter in Redemption Ark (a hefty read!) but I found it worth it.

His last book, Century Rain, is a bit different. Not set in the far future but still a bit ahead I actually found this better than Iain Banks The Algerbrist. It was a good book but found it didn't really have anything new from him in it and that it just seemed to end. Some good plots in it but when I finished I just felt it went "oh yeah that's it, it's over, your done."

Johnny Storm

I agree with your comments on Alastair Reynolds (although I havent read century city)
A few chapters into the first one Revelation Space I was thinking "Wow! this is one of the best SF books I have ever read". Unfortunately he didn't quite sustain that very high level of achievement but he's still one of the best at the moment. IMHO Each suceeding book has been very slightly disappointing I'm sorry to say. But I would still 100% recommend Revelation Space for anyone who likes SF

protos

Alistair Reynolds is my favorite SF author - I like some of Ian M Banks stuff, and Greg Bear can be very hit and miss. I thought Darwins Radio was excellent, but didn't get mileage at all out of Darwins Children.

There was a long thread here before about peoples favorite SF authors that seems to have disappeared. Is there any way to get it back ? I need some fresh material.

protos

CiDeRmAn wrote:

Yeah, its a pretty recent one, but 100 pages in and I am trying to figure out why its in the Sci-fi section, or as easons call it, the fantasy next to the adult fiction section, just to keep all the embarrassing customers in one place!

Both Cryptonomicon and Snow Crash were written by Neal Stephenson.

I thought Cryptonomicon was one of the best books I ever read - definately wouldn't classify it as SF though. Not sure what you'd classify it as to be honest - geek fiction ? Although the WW2 sections are based on real events.
Snow Crash is a bit older and not as tightly written, but enjoyable.
If you enjoy those two - see if you can find Zodiac. Shorter and much easier to read than the above two. Hardcore environmental activists going after large dirty corporations - set in the very near future.

CiDeRmAn

I really enjoyed Eon and its sequels, also Forge of God and Anvil of the Stars, excellent stuff. Persuaded a mate to buy a 2nd hand copy of John Varleys Steel Beach, probably the best sf book I have ever read, really, get some of his stuff its excellent.

ixoy

CiDeRmAn wrote:

I really enjoyed Eon and its sequels, also Forge of God and Anvil of the Stars, excellent stuff

Well technically one's a sequel and one's a prequel but anyway

Did you try Bear's "Moving Mars"? I really enjoyed that one. "Queen of Angels" and "Slant" are interesting cyberpunk affairs.

I'm currently on "Absolution Gap" by Alstair Reynolds. Really enjoyed the other 3 of his I read (I got "Chasm City" in there). The scrimshaw suit is a work of perverted evil genius People seem quite passionate about him - my boss at work recognised the cover from her husband's collection and some guy on the DART saw me reading it and felt compelled to strike up a conversation about him..

Next on my authors to try is Richard Morgan and "Altered Carbon". That's once I can read the rest from my current authors..

protos

Moving Mars was brilliant.
Must try John Varley. I don't remember ever seeing his books in bookshops though - is he easy to find ?

CiDeRmAn

Not really easy to find I'm afraid, pressure on shelf space in a bookstore is enormous, all of those bloody epic fantasy crap take up so much room, the older books get pushed out, but if you look on Amazon or Ebay you should find some, honestly it is great stuff, must recommend everyone to dig back into the 60's and 70's for Sci-FI, there is so much stuff with outlooks based on the prevailing politics and contra-goverment movements, very good, few of it dates at all, try Fall of Moondust by Arthur C Clarke, really good, a disaster movie in space, before there were disaster movies at all, should be available in 2nd hand bookshops everywhere and well worth a read. Also look for anything by James White, his Sector General books are great and He is Irish! Thet were written over the last few decades and are very entertaining.

madrab

just read inversions, thought it was so so, not really sci fi,

CiDeRmAn

Wel, I guess you have to read Inversion in context with the rest of his Culture novels, seeing the high and lofty society that the two protagonists have left to live in the medieval society, both with radically different outlooks on their adopted homeland.
I liked it, its not my favorite of his but no where near as terrible as some writers of note have produced recently, Stephen Baxter are you listening?