Touts

bullock

I might as well tell you I hate them. I believe if you have a spare ticket for a gig your better off keeping it and losing out. I see on another post that some guy sold a spare Oasis ticket to the tout with one leg. I hat that prick and if I see him again he'll have no leg .... dick head!!!

Nidge

I completely agree, the only way i got into oxegen was by paying a tout €250 for a band for the whole weekend. I was absolutely robbed, i still consider it to have been worth it but i also really hate these people. They have no interest in the events themselves and no doubt are feeding some drug habit.
I think moves should be made to make it illegal. Now I know the Gardai have better things to be doing than raiding suspected tout's houses but i think if you are at a gig and the Gardai are around (like at oxegen) you should be able to alert them to touts and have them escorted off the premises and their tickets confiscated.

paconnors

But ye are the fools for paying the Extraordinary prices to them!!
I Have no sympathy, if you miss out on a ticket at shops then thats your hard luck

Nidge

Here i know well that i missed out but don't call me the fool. I knew what i was getting into i'm just saying it really should be stopped. I didn't really intend to go to oxegen it was after the tickets were sold out and i realised how much i wanted to see certain bands that i decided to get there by any means possible. That's the first and last time i will ever buy from a tout. What i'm saying is if they were scared off the people who actually wanted to go to the concerts would get the tickets and they could only be sold on for face value if people were unable to use them. Although i really think this is as unstoppable as drugs in Ireland.

bullock

I think people are worse for selling their spares to touts. I'd have more satisfaction selling it to a punter who'd enjoy the show for even less than face value.

lordgoat

Nidge wrote:

Here i know well that i missed out but don't call me the fool. I knew what i was getting into i'm just saying it really should be stopped. I didn't really intend to go to oxegen it was after the tickets were sold out and i realised how much i wanted to see certain bands that i decided to get there by any means possible. That's the first and last time i will ever buy from a tout. What i'm saying is if they were scared off the people who actually wanted to go to the concerts would get the tickets and they could only be sold on for face value if people were unable to use them. Although i really think this is as unstoppable as drugs in Ireland.

oxegen were selling camping tickets for face value(150??) all saturday... would you not go and check them first, piece of advice for you - always try the box office/stalls enterance for tickets.

oh and for the record all touts are scum...

Kingsize

the tout with the one leg is class did you know he was actually punished in saudi for kicking a holy man up the arse.

what about the tout who looks like matthew kelly anyone ever seen him!!??
bright yellow shirt & stars (or dollar signs) in his eyes
in my opinion Touts are scum but in reality they are just an extension of ticketmaster's (scum also) system of creating a false demand/staggering ticket releases to hype up the event.
which causes people with no interest in the event to buy tickets just to sell em at a profit.
i.e. touts are only doing what a lot of folks are doing but in a more organised way.

the jew

Why does everyone get all high and mighty about ticket touts? I mean why draw the line there, what about cúnts that buy a house, rent it for a few years and sell it at a profit, or someone that runs a shop and buys goods at a cheaper price than what they sell it for. If i had a ticket for some band and somebody said they'd give me 5 times the price i paid for it, i'd be thinking nice one (plus i'd think the person that gave me that much money for one concert is a stupid waster).

GerryManderer

Stop yer bleating!! If you miss the first round offer of gig tickets when they're released, then you're sh*t out of luck generally speaking. At least with the touts, you have the opportunity of getting to see something you originally thought you'd have no chance of seeing. Not everything in life is fair you big babies. Wake up!!! Moany gets.

Nidge

lordgoat wrote:

oxegen were selling camping tickets for face value(150??) all saturday... would you not go and check them first, piece of advice for you - always try the box office/stalls enterance for tickets.

oh and for the record all touts are scum...

I heard about this afterwards but i mean i rang up ticketmaster they said there were NONE left of any sort this makes me think that all normal methods of getting tickets are gone. I've never heard of a concert being officially sold out but then it being possible to the people, who are meant to be taking your feckin ticket!, and asking them do they have any spare. Either way i've learnt my lesson and i will endeavour to buy tickets before they are sold out but as i said already GerryManderer if there weren't all these touts buying all these tickets to make an enormous profit maybe there wouldn't be so many poor unfortunates having to try and buy tickets off them!

Toast

the jew wrote:

Why does everyone get all high and mighty about ticket touts? I mean why draw the line there, what about cúnts that buy a house, rent it for a few years and sell it at a profit, or someone that runs a shop and buys goods at a cheaper price than what they sell it for.

Someone always makes this point when this argument comes up but its not a good parallel. Touts dont add anything other than expense. They dont provide a service. They effectively create their own market. People who buy houses are actually doing something with them as they have to mantain them. People who run shops are providing a service in bringing the goods to you. All touts are doing is sucking up tickets and selling them off for more. They are totally unneccesary. Yes theoretically they are working within the same principles of capitilism as the examples you mentioned however they are abusing it and making a mockery of the spirit of it. You can be sure they dont pay taxes either.

GerryManderer wrote:

If you miss the first round offer of gig tickets when they're released, then you're sh*t out of luck generally speaking. At least with the touts, you have the opportunity of getting to see something you originally thought you'd have no chance of seeing.

You mean the same tickets youd have been able to buy from the source if they hadnt been bought by touts? Touts dont make extra tickets (well some do but thats another point). The same amount is always there.. the fact the tickets are going through a pointless middleman whose holding on to them for a lazier richer person than might of got them is not something that should be lauded.

randombassist

Someone always makes this point when this argument comes up but its not a good parallel. Touts dont add anything other than expense. They dont provide a service. They effectively create their own market. People who buy houses are actually doing something with them as they have to mantain them. People who run shops are providing a service in bringing the goods to you. All touts are doing is sucking up tickets and selling them off for more. They are totally unneccesary. Yes theoretically they are working within the same principles of capitilism as the examples you mentioned however they are abusing it and making a mockery of the spirit of it.

I'm not a fan of touts in the slightest, but they do service a market. And inspite of what you've said there about house prices etc, there are many paralells in every day life where people buy things, do not add any value themselves to it, and then end up selling for profit. Share/ Bond buying revolves around that very principle, and that's one of the most fundamental tennants of a capitalist society, so it's a bit premature to say that they are 'abusing' that capitalist ethos. They've spotted a potentially good product, bought through a speculative motive and received a return in profit. This is the very essence of capitalism, making as much money as you can with as little work as possible!

honru

I love the touts. I take advantage of them all the time.

See, when there's a gig that's not sold out but warrents the touts' presence, and I'm not too pushed to pay the exordinate ticket price, I'll just head down to the venue and usually get them to haggle down to as much as half the price. And there's no guilt involved.

Hey, recouping your losses is better than nothing.

bullock

Lucky you.

smackbunnybaby

i hate touts too.
if i had a spare ticket and couldnt give it to someone (ie a fan outside) id prefer to wipe my arse with it then sell it to a tout.

as a matter of interest has anyone else ever bought from a tout cus they really wanted to go to a concert?
i have always wanted to know there mark up on tickets
what was face value and waht did you end up paying?
no mocking anyone, i am just curious

rubadub

heres an old thread I started on dealing with the scum that are touts

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=129624

smackbunnybaby

that is excellent rubadub , thanks for that.
touts really get on my nerves, and if you go to a lot of gigis its the same guys week in week out.

Bottle_of_Smoke

randombassist wrote:

Share/ Bond buying revolves around that very principle, and that's one of the most fundamental tennants of a capitalist society, so it's a bit premature to say that they are 'abusing' that capitalist ethos. They've spotted a potentially good product, bought through a speculative motive and received a return in profit. This is the very essence of capitalism, making as much money as you can with as little work as possible!

Are you actually this stupid?

Your last sentence applies very well to child porn, what's your stance on that?

Touts are indirectly stealing, they've done nothing to deserve a profit from the shows, all someone elses hard work.

Your enlightening comparison with shares and bonds... Ever stop to think that when you buy shares you might actually be investing in a firm that needs capital? and they'd be grateful for you talking a risk so they wouldn't mind you selling the the shares for a profit?

You post is the most ignorant thing I've read in ages, well except for that Born Again Christian theory on rock music I read a few minutes ago.

randombassist

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Are you actually this stupid?

Your last sentence applies very well to child porn, what's your stance on that?

Touts are indirectly stealing, they've done nothing to deserve a profit from the shows, all someone elses hard work.

Your enlightening comparison with shares and bonds... Ever stop to think that when you buy shares you might actually be investing in a firm that needs capital? and they'd be grateful for you talking a risk so they wouldn't mind you selling the the shares for a profit?

You post is the most ignorant thing I've read in ages, well except for that Born Again Christian theory on rock music I read a few minutes ago.

of course I'm not in favour of child porn, though I find it rather entertaining that instead of dealing with my argument, you instead try and force me into the most absurd postition possible, as a form of arguing ad- hominem, and side stepping the logical part of my argument almost entirely. Not very big. Not very clever.

All I was trying to do was to point out that however much you might not like them, touts are operating WITHIN THE LAW (hence the ludicrous nature of child porn comparison) and providing a service that people want.

As for your vague attempt at shooting down the shares/ bonds comparison you've obviously ignored the second part of my argument, where I said that touts were providing for a market and demand. How very clever to ignore one part of an argument that you can't deal with, again in an attempt to make yourself look big and clever, while really dodging the issue.

You simply try to put it down by saying did it ever occur to me that companies MIGHT require the capital? Well I'll answer that by showing you how direct my comparison is. Did it ever occur to you that touts are selling to people who MIGHT really want to go to a gig that's sold out?

I don't mind having a sensible discussion with you about this issue. But for future reference, arguing ad-hominem and misapropriating my arguments do nothing to add to serious discussion.

mmm_cheese

i couldnt agree more with ye......i hate touts .......but the thing that annoys me most is that they get all the tickets first and then go on the likes of ebay and let people bid for tickets!!!!! its disgusting

Gross Halfwit

I have mixed feelings on Touts. Yes they are scum for buying up a lot of tickets for an event and then selling them on for a well marked up price! And basically ****ing over the people that actually want to see the gig/event but In saying that they are handy when it comes to off loading a ticket. I know that probably makes me as bad as them but Id rather be bad than out €50.

McFiddler

I think anyone that says they hate touts and then goes and buys tickets from them is a hypocrite. I dislike how touts minipulate the fans and therefore I would never buy tickets from them out of principle. The simple fact is if nobody bought from touts there would be no touts. No demand no market. So for those of you who have bought from touts, no matter how much you hate them, It's all your fault that they even exist!

Toast

randombassist wrote:

Did it ever occur to you that touts are selling to people who MIGHT really want to go to a gig that's sold out?

As Ive already said in this thread touts dont magically make extra tickets. The fact the touts exist and buy up tickets is the reason you have to buy the tickets from the touts. Your claim that they are satisfying a market is true but the fact is its a market that exists because of their actions.

Thing is tickets are probably the only luxury in our (ie first world citizens with expendable income) lives that regularly suffer from high demand low supply. Gigs / sporting events are peoples way of relaxing, having fun, escaping from the drudge of reality. To have ticketmaster milk us for them first is bad enough but if it wasnt for them there would be no event. To have a SECOND layer of purely unneccesary parasites is what gets my goat and Im sure others.

If you really want to make a parallel imagine buying up all the ice cream in a city on the hottest day of the year and selling it for 4 times as much. Thats exactly what a tout does.

Sure its legal, but its greedy, its immoral, its having no sympathy for the desires of your fellow citizens. You arent starving anyone, you are just denying them a luxury which they should be able to afford for less if you werent there.

We can argue this for hours but its purely a case of morals. There will always be those who feel that people have the right to profit no matter what but they certainly do not have the right to be spared the hatred that will go with exploiting the rest of us regular joes who just want to enjoy a concert or a match.

Oh and by the way dont forget you can bet the large scale touts are making thousands of euros tax free each month. Id like to know of any other "legal" way of doing the same because I for one am obviously in the wrong line of work.

okidoki987

There will always be touts because there will always be a demand for them.
Events sell out that is a fact so there will always be people looking for tickets who couldn't or didn't get them first time around.
The promoters don't care as they will sell out the event anyway and they know for the following year, there will an even bigger demand so they will sell out again (at higher prices!).
Ticketmaster don't care as they get their fees who ever buys the tickets, touts or fans.
Touts love Ebay as they don't even have to get out of their beds now to sell the tickets and of course Ebay don't care who sells what on the site.

One way to get rid of touts is for Ticketmaster to sell a small % to the agents and the bigest % to phone and I/net purchasers but ONLY send the tickets out a maximum of a week beforehand. Okay there will be a huge demand a week before the gig but at least the touts then wouldn't have a huge amount of time to sell all their tickets. Also have a more realistic limit for the number of tickets allowed per person.So for U2 or others they know will be HUGE demand for, only allow 2 p.p. a concert, having a maximum of 8 (Oasis) or 6 (U2) is absurd.
If you have 5 mates then let them look after themselves.

grumpytrousers

okidoki987 wrote:

There will always be touts because there will always be a demand for them.
Events sell out that is a fact so there will always be people looking for tickets who couldn't or didn't get them first time around.
The promoters don't care as they will sell out the event anyway and they know for the following year, there will an even bigger demand so they will sell out again (at higher prices!).
Ticketmaster don't care as they get their fees who ever buys the tickets, touts or fans.
Touts love Ebay as they don't even have to get out of their beds now to sell the tickets and of course Ebay don't care who sells what on the site.

One way to get rid of touts is for Ticketmaster to sell a small % to the agents and the bigest % to phone and I/net purchasers but ONLY send the tickets out a maximum of a week beforehand. Okay there will be a huge demand a week before the gig but at least the touts then wouldn't have a huge amount of time to sell all their tickets. Also have a more realistic limit for the number of tickets allowed per person.So for U2 or others they know will be HUGE demand for, only allow 2 p.p. a concert, having a maximum of 8 (Oasis) or 6 (U2) is absurd.
If you have 5 mates then let them look after themselves.

One way to get rid of touts is for Ticketmaster to sell a small % to the agents and the bigest % to phone and I/net purchasers

I'd disagree. While there's probably nothing wrong with having a significant % available solely to phone purchasers, it's fairer all around if more tickets go to those who queue up. They tend to be limited to x tickets per person and then if they (the tout) wishes to buy more they will have to go back to the end of the queue.

Using t'internet site, there's NO limit to the amount of windows a tout can have open and thus no limit to the amount of tickets they can get their hands on. Also, as internet purchasing requires no 'getting your arse out of bed and down to the shops' there's no difficulty in amateur touts engaging in all this as well; something they mightn't be up for doing if they actually had to go to the hassle of hopping on a bus to make it to the outlet!

Kingsize

security systems are already in place that could eliminate touts overnight
ticketmaster just dont give a fook,

Dellgirl

the tout with the one leg is class did you know he was actually punished in saudi for kicking a holy man up the arse.

Where are you getting your information??!

shuushh

no sympathy for idiots who pay the price a tout demands

grumpytrousers

Jesus - this gets my goat - the sanctimonious 'no sympathy if you pay a tout prices'

it's not like the 'old days' where the only way to get tickets was to queue up and you nailed your colours to a bands mast by sleeping out the night before so you could see, I dunno, Neil Young in Slane.

Nowadays, the means by which tickets are distributed mean that ultimately those with NO interest in going to a gig can get their hands on tickets AS easy as somebody who wants to go desperately; sometimes easier. Not only that, those who have no interest in going are in a position to completely distort the market...

Thus, for instance, a U2 fan who does NOT live near a ticketmaster outlet and is unforunate enough to live in an area where broadband internet is unavailable is at an immediate disadvantage; he can only get his tickets by phone.

Compare with a tout based in a more urban area; the tout has the option of scoring tickets by phone, on the net (and with enough windows open, a good connection, luck on his side and a decent credit limit on the credit card he'll get plenty) or in person.

Now, the fact of the matter is that there are plenty of people who can use/abuse the system as outlined in the above paragraph - it's people like that who ensure that there will HAVE to be a stream of people ticketless and FORCED to pay tout prices. And bear in mind, concerts and matches are events that can't be quantified in pure economic terms like, I dunno, guns or butter.

If, say, Bob Dylan announces a gig and the touts spring into action snapping up x% of the tickets, then it's not 'laziness of fans who didn't bother' that forces a significant amount to go to the touts - rather it's the concerted efforts of well organised touts causing this to happen. The fans?, they're fans of the musician, they want to see the show and while the long term an 'if you don't pay tout prices they'll go away' policy might work in the long term, it certainly won't make a Bob Dylan ticket easier to come by for that gig.

And thus, especially with acts of an older vintage where the risk of 'em snuffing it is more significant, people think 'it's either this or nothing', suck it down and pay the price.

HOWEVER, and this is my point; if there were foolproof ways of ensuring that concerted ticket buying could be stamped out, the problem would certainly be diminished.

I realise I offer no solutions here, but to be honest, the best place to start fixing solution is at the source.

But then ticketmaster are as big a shower of cnuts as the touts.

okidoki987

it's fairer all around if more tickets go to those who queue up. They tend to be limited to x tickets per person and then if they (the tout) wishes to buy more they will have to go back to the end of the queue.

What the touts do is PAY people to Q for them so they can get the maximum number each time X the number of people q'ing for them.

Using t'internet site, there's NO limit to the amount of windows a tout can have open and thus no limit to the amount of tickets they can get their hands on. Also, as internet purchasing requires no 'getting your arse out of bed and down to the shops' there's no difficulty in amateur touts engaging in all this as well; something they mightn't be up for doing if they actually had to go to the hassle of hopping on a bus to make it to the outlet!

But what Ticketmaster should/could do is
Allow a smaller number to be bought on the I/net or over the phone per person and then (to avoid multiple) only allow that number of tickets for ONE Credit Card. So then it doesn't matter how many windows you have open, when Ticketmaster check the purchases, they can limit the number per Credit Card. So if the maximum number is 2 per person that only allow 2 per CC or per person at same address. Most people have no more then 2 or 3 Credit Cards. They could do this easily enough if they didn't send out the tickets until a week before the gig.
Okay it's more work for Ticketmaster but they'd have to check the CC's anyway for stolen cards etc

grumpytrousers

okidoki987 wrote:

What the touts do is PAY people to Q for them so they can get the maximum number each time X the number of people q'ing for them.



But what Ticketmaster should/could do is
Allow a smaller number to be bought on the I/net or over the phone per person and then (to avoid multiple) only allow that number of tickets for ONE Credit Card. So then it doesn't matter how many windows you have open, when Ticketmaster check the purchases, they can limit the number per Credit Card. So if the maximum number is 2 per person that only allow 2 per CC or per person at same address. Most people have no more then 2 or 3 Credit Cards. They could do this easily enough if they didn't send out the tickets until a week before the gig.
Okay it's more work for Ticketmaster but they'd have to check the CC's anyway for stolen cards etc

Yup - Agree totally mate - my 'rant' above was basically railing at the fact that the people who *should* control the supply of tickets
a) don't control the supply
b) don't care about controlling the supply

and thus the supply is, de facto, in the hands of well organised touts who, you say, pay local oiks to queue and pay for cash. (meself, I live rural and have to go to my local outlet where we don't *do* touts )

perhaps a change to that ticketmaster-petition-sticky needed! I'd HAPPILY pay a service charge for that!

28064212

okidoki987 wrote:

But what Ticketmaster should/could do is
Allow a smaller number to be bought on the I/net or over the phone per person and then (to avoid multiple) only allow that number of tickets for ONE Credit Card.

Don't ticketmaster already do this? When it says a maximum of 6 per person, I presumed that meant per credit card. It doesn't make much sense otherwise.

grumpytrousers

28064212 wrote:

Don't ticketmaster already do this? When it says a maximum of 6 per person, I presumed that meant per credit card. It doesn't make much sense otherwise.

Per transaction, I think...

oleras

personally, i dont really see anything wrong in say, somebody buying 6 tickets, they only need 2 and selling the other 4 for 50% profit, you end up getting yours free....after all, you either queued, phoned or used your credit card online....no big markup either, i wouldent mind, and have paid €75 for a €50 ticket..... simple economics really...supply and demand
Someone else mentioned an "ice-cream"analagy..... buy all the ice cream on a hot day and sell it on for a profit.....(4 times profit was mentioned, cant see anyone paying €200 for a €50 ticket, but anyways) WHY NOT? this is what car dealers do, personal experience scuba equiptment, if there is a demand there will be supply, at a mark up.

Toast

Because its greedy and immoral to want others to pay more to cover you. Just because other people do it doesnt mean you should.

All you hear day in and day out is people complaining about the sort of people who make this country one of the most expensive places to live in Europe. Why then are the same people who complain trying to defend being a tout? If you are a tout then YOU are Eircom, You are Ticketmaster, You are a car salesman, or a scuba gear salesman or a landlord or whatever.

If you dont see why thats "wrong" then well you've to accept you arent going to be liked.. but sure you'll see your gig for free.

rubadub

oleras wrote:

personally, i dont really see anything wrong in say, somebody buying 6 tickets, they only need 2 and selling the other 4 for 50% profit, you end up getting yours free....after all, you either queued, phoned or used your credit card online....no big markup either, i wouldent mind, and have paid €75 for a €50 ticket..... simple economics really...supply and demand
Someone else mentioned an "ice-cream"analagy..... buy all the ice cream on a hot day and sell it on for a profit.....(4 times profit was mentioned, cant see anyone paying €200 for a €50 ticket, but anyways) WHY NOT? this is what car dealers do, personal experience scuba equiptment, if there is a demand there will be supply, at a mark up.

There is not a limited supply of cars that are bought up by a groups of dealers.
from google. You dont mind paying the extra, because you are probably breaking even since you are a tout yourself, like pyramid schemes, somebody has to lose.

A person who applied unsolicited pressures on individuals to buy some high-prices commodity in short supply. The term is frequently applied to those who obtain tickets for a popular event and then seek to resell the tickets to others at inflated prices.

The guy who buys up all the ice cream is a prick, just like the touts.

oleras

Toast wrote:

Because its greedy and immoral to want others to pay more to cover you. Just because other people do it doesnt mean you should.

All you hear day in and day out is people complaining about the sort of people who make this country one of the most expensive places to live in Europe. Why then are the same people who complain trying to defend being a tout? If you are a tout then YOU are Eircom, You are Ticketmaster, You are a car salesman, or a scuba gear salesman or a landlord or whatever.

If you dont see why thats "wrong" then well you've to accept you arent going to be liked.. but sure you'll see your gig for free.

Where does morality come into this ? please explain.......

people complain because "basic" consumables are expensive, you have to have a landline, you have to buy petrol, you have to have a roof over your head...... you dont have to go to a concert......that is a luxury, like ice cream !!

Toast

I was the guy who made the ice cream analogy. I've already said why I feel this is immoral and greedy.

toast wrote:

You arent starving anyone, you are just denying them a luxury which they should be able to afford for less if you werent there.

Also internet access, scuba gear and cars are hardly neccesary for life.

lordgoat

oleras wrote:

Where does morality come into this ? please explain.......

people complain because "basic" consumables are expensive, you have to have a landline, you have to buy petrol, you have to have a roof over your head...... you dont have to go to a concert......that is a luxury, like ice cream !!

are you a lawyer or banker???

grumpytrousers

lordgoat wrote:

are you a lawyer or banker???

No Personal Abuse!

oleras

lordgoat wrote:

are you a lawyer or banker???

im sure that was meant as banker with a "b"....lol.....

Neither.....i am somebody has an openion, like everybody else...... take it or leave it,hell lets even debate it..... but no need for insults....

Toast:"You arent starving anyone, you are just denying them a luxury which they should be able to afford for less if you werent there"

The definition of luxury.......Something inessential but conducive to pleasure and comfort. Inessential is the key word here, internet access ? scuba gear ? concert/sporting tickets ? ice cream ? i would have no worries living without them, so somebody who inflates the price in my eyes are not comiting any "moral" sin....Greed? maybe, but we do live in a capitalist society, and that by definition is based on greed and profit.

grumpytrousers

oleras wrote:

im sure that was meant as banker with a "b"....lol.....

Neither.....i am somebody has an openion, like everybody else...... take it or leave it,hell lets even debate it..... but no need for insults....

Toast:"You arent starving anyone, you are just denying them a luxury which they should be able to afford for less if you werent there"

The definition of luxury.......Something inessential but conducive to pleasure and comfort. Inessential is the key word here, internet access ? scuba gear ? concert/sporting tickets ? ice cream ? i would have no worries living without them, so somebody who inflates the price in my eyes are not comiting any "moral" sin....Greed? maybe, but we do live in a capitalist society, and that by definition is based on greed and profit.

Last time i looked, greed was one of the seven deadly sins though...so that's pretty close to immoral, innit...

oleras

grumpytrousers wrote:

Last time i looked, greed was one of the seven deadly sins though...so that's pretty close to immoral, innit...

well, as some gezer once said "let him without sin....." you know the rest....lol

grumpytrousers

oleras wrote:

well, as some gezer once said "let him without sin....." you know the rest....lol

Okay. Let's run with your assumption that I am not without sin. What then eh?

Whilst that may mean that my ability to criticise the motives of a tout are, indeed, compromised, you still haven't demonstrated an argument to show an objective viewpoint that states what they do is right/moral/not 'sinful'.

Now, a quick gander at your post count implies that you're either new to this whole place, or maybe you're just somebody banned who has come back under a different guise.

Either way, in the absense of a decent argument, anything further you have to say on this subject will, by me at least, be ignored. No more poking at me thru the bars of the cage, Newbie...

oleras

grumpytrousers wrote:

Okay. Let's run with your assumption that I am not without sin. What then eh?

Whilst that may mean that my ability to criticise the motives of a tout are, indeed, compromised, you still haven't demonstrated an argument to show an objective viewpoint that states what they do is right/moral/not 'sinful'.

Now, a quick gander at your post count implies that you're either new to this whole place, or maybe you're just somebody banned who has come back under a different guise.

Either way, in the absense of a decent argument, anything further you have to say on this subject will, by me at least, be ignored. No more poking at me thru the bars of the cage, Newbie...

Newbie ? LMAO.......(do you use that word in from of your mates, or just here )

look back a few posts, remember what i said about insults...... typical !

i take it you take a lot of emphasis from a persons"post count" rather then the substance of their posts, trust me, i have been on enough BB's in my time to take nothing from the amount of time a person replies to get their count up, its what they say i have an interest in, now if you want to throw your toys out of the pram, call me a troll, get in a huff, fine with me. But this holyer than you attitude really makes me laugh......OH, TOUTS..SCUM OF THE EARTH..... have you ever gone over the irish sea to watch a football match ? hanging around on the friday night PRAYING a tout will come in to the pub so you can give him £60 for a £30 ticket ? because you could not get one ? that guy is making a few pounds, providing a service...... i think the term tout is automatically seen as a negative, maybe we should start calling them "ticket re-sellers"

one more thing..... how many people on here log on from work ? i suppose you wouldent call that stealing either.....climb down from that high horse folks... hehe

grumpytrousers

oleras wrote:

Newbie ? LMAO.......(do you use that word in from of your mates, or just here )

look back a few posts, remember what i said about insults...... typical !

i take it you take a lot of emphasis from a persons"post count" rather then the substance of their posts, trust me, i have been on enough BB's in my time to take nothing from the amount of time a person replies to get their count up, its what they say i have an interest in, now if you want to throw your toys out of the pram, call me a troll, get in a huff, fine with me. But this holyer than you attitude really makes me laugh......OH, TOUTS..SCUM OF THE EARTH..... have you ever gone over the irish sea to watch a football match ? hanging around on the friday night PRAYING a tout will come in to the pub so you can give him £60 for a £30 ticket ? because you could not get one ? that guy is making a few pounds, providing a service...... i think the term tout is automatically seen as a negative, maybe we should start calling them "ticket re-sellers"

one more thing..... how many people on here log on from work ? i suppose you wouldent call that stealing either.....climb down from that high horse folks... hehe

As you've at least gone back to the subject matter in hand - i'll reply.

It's an interesting point you make about the tout in the pub; the point being made here and in countless other threads is it all depends on what you call a 'service'. You're quite right - somebody who walks into a pub with a spare ticket which he is willing to part with is providing a service. Somebody who walks into a pub with a spare ticket which he bought with the sole reason of selling at an over-inflated price is also, as you say, providing a 'service'. One of these is, to this writers mind, taking advantage...

So do crack-dealers and providers of child-pornography provide a service - and just cos it's a 'service' and there's a 'demand' doesn't make what they do (the selling and exploitation) right. Capitalist market or not.

Of course with touting it's a different kind of 'exploitation'. Crack addicts aren't the same as die-hard U2 fans. Or at least not all of 'em.

If touts SOLELY existed becuase people didn't have the wherewithall/determination to get tickets when they should I'd nearly agree 100% with what you say to be honest - but like I've said before, the touts of today (or professional purchasers and re-sellers, if you will) are so well organised that it's not 'laziness' on the part of the great unwashed that leaves them ticketless...

As long as promoters don't care and the touts manage to distort the (initial demand and) eventual supply, the problem won't go away. Adding price to a product without any added value (in this case buying a ticket and flogging it on just cos you KNOW it can't be bought elsewhere) is, and will remain in my eyes, wrong.

It's probably becuase of this that acts like the Stones and Bowie have started this fanclub/extortionate prices for tickets lark...if SOMEBODY is willing to pay $400 to see mick'n'keith etc then they reckon it might as well be them. And not the 're-seller'.

And now that i've taken my toys back into the pram, if you want to reason back at me, i'm all ears...

oleras

grumpytrousers wrote:

As you've at least gone back to the subject matter in hand - i'll reply.

It's an interesting point you make about the tout in the pub; the point being made here and in countless other threads is it all depends on what you call a 'service'. You're quite right - somebody who walks into a pub with a spare ticket which he is willing to part with is providing a service. Somebody who walks into a pub with a spare ticket which he bought with the sole reason of selling at an over-inflated price is also, as you say, providing a 'service'. One of these is, to this writers mind, taking advantage...

So do crack-dealers and providers of child-pornography provide a service - and just cos it's a 'service' and there's a 'demand' doesn't make what they do (the selling and exploitation) right. Capitalist market or not.

Of course with touting it's a different kind of 'exploitation'. Crack addicts aren't the same as die-hard U2 fans. Or at least not all of 'em.

If touts SOLELY existed becuase people didn't have the wherewithall/determination to get tickets when they should I'd nearly agree 100% with what you say to be honest - but like I've said before, the touts of today (or professional purchasers and re-sellers, if you will) are so well organised that it's not 'laziness' on the part of the great unwashed that leaves them ticketless...

As long as promoters don't care and the touts manage to distort the (initial demand and) eventual supply, the problem won't go away. Adding price to a product without any added value (in this case buying a ticket and flogging it on just cos you KNOW it can't be bought elsewhere) is, and will remain in my eyes, wrong.

It's probably becuase of this that acts like the Stones and Bowie have started this fanclub/extortionate prices for tickets lark...if SOMEBODY is willing to pay $400 to see mick'n'keith etc then they reckon it might as well be them. And not the 're-seller'.

And now that i've taken my toys back into the pram, if you want to reason back at me, i'm all ears...

As in any debate, one has to pick a side, i have picked the "re-sellers".... and to be honest, if somebody is pi33ed off because they paid €250 for a €50 ticket or likewise whats the point in moaning about it? you got screwed, (you as in the collective you....) build a bridge, get over it. IMO if you want a ticket, you have 2 choices, get it yourself or pay someone to get it for you i.e. the re-seller. But like everything in life it aint as cut and dry like that..... you might mention the "sell it on at any cost, drugs, porn etc" but thats illegal, buying 6 tickets anf flogging 4 to pay for yours isnt, its called "being enterprising...lol"..... the person that buys 10% of a concert on the other hand.... they do posess an unfair advantage.... what can be done? Ryanair have it sorted to a degree, to stop exactly the same thing, selling on at a profit, i cant book 20 cheap flights for say €20 each and sell them for €50 to strangers, why cant ticketmaster do the same. have an id policy.....that way the "scumbag tout" is screwed and the enterprising re-seller can escort his 4 "guests" in with him....... this is a very simple argument i know, its a friday evening and im still at work.....lmao ( re.my prev post....) But to be honest i still stand over the fact that re-selling a legal luxury piece of merchandise at a profit is fine in my book. And thank you for the reply, i thought i would have to wait till monday to finish this....

off topic: i also see your a lost fan, fantastic programe, should get my ass over to the lost form.....lol ( hope to get S2ep1 tonight from a "friend" lol)