Opinions on the 'international rules' series?

dSTAR

Interested to get some opinions from hardcore GAA fans on the code of 'international rules'.

Cheers!

Lemlin

I like it. Its a good way to award the country's best players by allowing them to represent their country.

It also allows for fully paid trips to Australia for players and helps to promote the GAA abroad.

Waylander

Apart from that it is a fastmoving action packed high scoring physical sport. I really enjoy watching these games when they are on.

Flukey

I've been at the last few series played here and I think it is great, except for that ridiculous mark rule. Getting a free for catching the ball is madness, plus it often takes the excitement out of what is often the most exciting parts of our game, like when a player gets a ball near the goal area. Instead of the excitement of a forward trying to get a score or a defender trying to get the ball clear, the whole game stops and a simple point or simple clearance is made.

Imposter

I dissagree Flukey. I think the mark encourages long kicking which is a skill that is severely lacking in football atm. Plus it can make for spectacular catches.

The most important and best rule imo is the defined tackle. It makes players get rid of the ball quicker instead of losing possession if tackled unlike in gaelic where a player tries to barge their way through (which is also against the rules but never/rarely enforced) opponents. Having a defined tackle takes a lot of the subjectivity out of refereeing as well which imo would be a good thing for gaelic football too.

Brian017

I think it rocks.

Waylander

I agree with Imposter, I have no problem with good fielding being rewarded by a mark. Also I do not think this slows down the game too much, as usually the resultant free are taken immediately.

Big Ears

and also if we took away the mark it would be a very unfair disadvantage to Australia making the games uncompetitive .

Flukey

Getting a free for catching a ball is a ridiculous concept. If you are going to do that, then why not give a free for doing other skills? We could have them for tipping the ball off the ground or for doing a solo run or even scoring a point from a free! Ridiculous? Absolutely, but no more so than giving a free for catching a ball. A free should be given for an infringement of the rules by the opposing team, not for carrying out a basic element of the game. A free should be given for executing a player, not executing a skill.

Also, as I said above, it robs the game of what are often its most exciting parts. After a fantastic move down the pitch there is a total anti-climax when a player goes up for a ball and then suddenly everything stops and a player calmly kicks the ball away. If a player does catch the ball he in effect does not have to compete beyond that to carry out the next phase of play, as happens in Gaelic Football. It was so frustrating watching the International Rules games when after a fast paced build-up of play, time and time again it just stopped because someone had caught the ball.

We have high fielding anyway without the mark, and even if it did encourage more of it, we would lose more if the play then immediately stops after a catch is made. It may encourage one particular skill, but we would lose something far more exciting. Look at the pace of games like yesterday's in Croke Park and imagine what we'd lose if the play stopped every time a player caught the ball.

Big Ears

Flukey wrote:

Getting a free for catching a ball is a ridiculous concept. If you are going to do that, then why not give a free for doing other skills? We could have them for tipping the ball off the ground or for doing a solo run or even scoring a point from a free! Ridiculous? Absolutely, but no more so than giving a free for catching a ball. A free should be given for an infringement of the rules by the opposing team, not for carrying out a basic element of the game. A free should be given for executing a player, not executing a skill.

Also, as I said above, it robs the game of what are often its most exciting parts. After a fantastic move down the pitch there is a total anti-climax when a player goes up for a ball and then suddenly everything stops and a player calmly kicks the ball away. If a player does catch the ball he in effect does not have to compete beyond that to carry out the next phase of play, as happens in Gaelic Football. It was so frustrating watching the International Rules games when after a fast paced build-up of play, time and time again it just stopped because someone had caught the ball.

We have high fielding anyway without the mark, and even if it did encourage more of it, we would lose more if the play then immediately stops after a catch is made. It may encourage one particular skill, but we would lose something far more exciting. Look at the pace of games like yesterday's in Croke Park and imagine what we'd lose if the play stopped every time a player caught the ball.

Flukey do you honestly beleive Austrailia could be competitive without the mark ? , every test would be a big win for Ireland without it

Imposter

Flukey wrote:

Look at the pace of games like yesterday's in Croke Park and imagine what we'd lose if the play stopped every time a player caught the ball.

I didn't see yeasterdays game but they'd have to kick the ball and kick it accurately. That's not something you see enough of in gaelic atm imo.

Flukey

Yes Big Ears, I do believe it would be no disadvantage to them. Why should it be? There is no reason why they couldn't catch a ball and kick it. After all, a lot of the time during the International Rules games, and even during their own games, when a mark could be called, it isn't and the play flows on. So they can do it.

GAA players have to kick the ball accurately to score and pass as it is Imposter, and as you say not always with great success. I don't think the mark would make a lot of difference in that regard though. In any case, the two main reasons I gave against it, the complete stupidity of giving a free for a skill and the way it would create a stop-start game still apply. You may not have seen yesterday's match, but you will have seen plenty of fast flowing games. You'll also have often seen those moments when a player catches the ball and has to keep things going, which are far more exciting than if he stopped and tamely kicked the ball away. So you know what I mean.

angeldelight

I like it but if it was a choice between watching a good aussie rules match and a good gaelic match id choose gaelic every time. Quite like the catches they try to get the mark but it does irritate me after a while.

Flukey

A good high catch is great to see, but the edge would be taken off it a bit if the play just stopped immediately after it. That is what happens in the Australian game, and in the International Rules games.

Flukey

The reward for a good high catch is posession of the ball, so there is no need to give them any additional benefit from doing so, like a free.

Brian017

Yeah, watching Aussie Rules and seeing them kicking around the ball around the centre of the oval and marking uncontested can become very tedious very quickly. But spectacular flying and climbing in the foward 50m arc and goal square are awesome and deserve to be rewarded, imo.

Brian017

Flukey wrote:

The reward for a good high catch is posession of the ball, so there is no need to give them any additional benefit from doing so, like a free.

But if they land on the ground it'll give the opposition time to mark the player and not let him get up or let him not have good possession.

Flukey

But if they land on the ground it'll give the opposition time to mark the player and not let him get up or let him not have good possession.

That is part of the game, part of the challenge. It is not meant to be easy. It is a sport. He then has to try and get the ball away and make good of the possession earned. His team mates have to try and give him options. The opposition have to try and stop him. If they do so illegally, then he should get a free, for an infringement of the rules, as all frees should be. If we just let players pass the ball to each other and stop all the time, it would become more like a game of chess than a field game.

dSTAR

Flukey wrote:

...I think it is great, except for that ridiculous mark rule. Getting a free for catching the ball is madness, plus it often takes the excitement out of what is often the most exciting parts of our game...

I disagree. GAA is a lot faster on the ground but no more excting in regard to marking. There is a fair degree of skill involved in getting a mark into an inside 50 and then squaring it up for a goal. Successful marks taken by forward players can look awesome especially when their opponent is used as leverage into the air.

Imposter

Flukey wrote:

That is part of the game, part of the challenge. It is not meant to be easy. It is a sport. He then has to try and get the ball away and make good of the possession earned. His team mates have to try and give him options. The opposition have to try and stop him. If they do so illegally, then he should get a free, for an infringement of the rules, as all frees should be. If we just let players pass the ball to each other and stop all the time, it would become more like a game of chess than a field game.

Compare to gaelic:
Get the ball, get near the goal, get a free, take easy point!
Ok that tactic is not the only one but it is used by most/all teams.

I'd prefer to see positive tactics get rewarded than negative tactics. Either that or bring in a defined tackle into gaelic so that players and referees know what is and isn't allowed and it might also encourage some positive play.

dSTAR

Big Ears wrote:

Flukey do you honestly beleive Australia could be competitive without the mark ? , every test would be a big win for Ireland without it

Thats a very big call. I would have to disagree with you on that one. Some of the AFL players who play in the international rules series would beat the Irish players hands down when it came to ruck work or hard ball gets. There are just too many good AFL players who are skilled in all areas of the game to make that assumption. Not to mention the size of some of the full forward players like Barry Hall from Sydney Swans who would chew up any GAA player and spit 'em out!

**Just need to make a point about taking a mark. When a player takes the mark, the umpire doesn't award a free kick! The mark is awarded and the player can take it or play on - a lot of the time the umpire will call 'play on' anyhow. Obviously the player has to take a clean mark without any touch on the ball before it is awarded. This is what makes contested marks so hard (and uncontested marks so infrequent) because the player has to be presenting within 50 metres of the goal area to be in range.

The whole of idea of the international rules is that the rules are actually compromised on both sides. Whereas the Irish side are at a disadvantage when it comes to marking; the Australian team are disadvantged in other areas such as the round ball and dribbling.

It will be interesting to see how Tadgh Kennelly plays for Ireland after playing for the Sydney Swans for so long. I love both GAA and AFL and it is easy to see how AFL is a derivative of GAA although a spectacular game in its own right.

Give me a stubby of Melbourne Bitter, meat pie and a Collingwood game and I'm in heaven!

:cool:

cournioni

Its ok because it sparks a bit of interest in a month where hardly anything is on domestically. Personally I don't really like how the game is played. The mark really annoys me, the stopping and starting really takes away from the game. I find it stupid the way you get a point for kicking the ball wide too.

Flukey

the Australian team are disadvantged in other areas such as the round ball

Contrary to popular belief, the round ball is one of the greatest advantages to the Australians, even though they like to pretend otherwise. We may be more used to the round ball than they are, which is why people think it is an advantage to us. However, think about it, the oval ball is a more difficult ball to judge, particularly on the bounce. It can go almost anywhere. Judging the bounce of a round ball is far easier.

The oval ball on the face of it, is easier to catch because it is elongated, but only if it comes at you vertically. If it is coming horizontally at you or indeed any way other than vertically, it can be much harder to catch. A round ball can be caught any way it comes at you, because it has uniform shape.

So the Australians deal with a more difficult ball than we do. Therefore if they can deal with a difficult ball, working with one that is easier to judge the bounce of and can be caught any way it comes at you, should be a doddle to them, and it is. I've never noticed that they have any problems with the round ball. They use it to cry wolf or to blame if they have a bad game. When they win, you never hear them complaining about the ball. They may not be used to it, but they adapt very easily. It is not a major adjustment. It would be much harder for us to adjust to an oval ball than for them to adjust to a round one, so it is an advantage to them. Something like not having a goalkeeper is far more of a disadvantage to them, because it is alien to them.

dSTAR

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Its ok because it sparks a bit of interest in a month where hardly anything is on domestically. Personally I don't really like how the game is played. The mark really annoys me, the stopping and starting really takes away from the game.

Its just different rules. I suppose its like comparing soccer or rugby to GAA. Although the purpose of the game is the same, the way it is achieved is different. No one really grumbles in rugby or grid iron when played is slowed.

PORNAPSTER wrote:

I find it stupid the way you get a point for kicking the ball wide too.

It is no more stupid getting a point for a behind than it is getting three points for kicking the ball over the crossbar. It doesn't take away from what is a very exciting game.

Not many AFL fans would question the validity of the mark or the scoring of a point for a behind. It just what you become accustomed to. It would be like saying that soccer is much better than GAA because in soccer they are not allowed to handle the ball or don't score for kicking over the crossbar.

Aside from that the international rules series has grown beyond belief with capacity crowds in both Ireland and Australia whenever the games are held. Its true what you said about it being a welcome diversion when both the All Ireland and Grand Final have been played.

cournioni

dSTAR wrote:

It is no more stupid getting a point for a behind than it is getting three points for kicking the ball over the crossbar. It doesn't take away from what is a very exciting game.

Not many AFL fans would question the validity of the mark or the scoring of a point for a behind. It just what you become accustomed to. It would be like saying that soccer is much better than GAA because in soccer they are not allowed to handle the ball or don't score for kicking over the crossbar.

Well tbh I was being sarcastic there, but I have to answer your point about kicking the ball over the crossbar from hand.

Soccer players would find it far harder than the GAA and AFL players at kicking the ball over the cross bar because of the technique involved, they might be able to do it while the ball is on the ground but I reckon they wouldn't be able to do it from hand. Also, I'd like to see soccer players solo the ball at speed or bounce an oval ball at speed. They wouldn't be able to do that either. It would be funny to watch though!

Imposter

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Soccer players would find it far harder than the GAA and AFL players at kicking the ball over the cross bar because of the technique involved, they might be able to do it while the ball is on the ground but I reckon they wouldn't be able to do it from hand. Also, I'd like to see soccer players solo the ball at speed or bounce an oval ball at speed. They wouldn't be able to do that either. It would be funny to watch though!

Is the Cavan team made up of soccer players?
Answers on a postcard.

cournioni

haha... Maybe... Looking at some of Larry Reilly's shooting recently!

dSTAR

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Well tbh I was being sarcastic there...

I thought as much...

Imposter wrote:

Is the Cavan team made up of soccer players?
Answers on a postcard.

Thats hilarious!

Brian017

You go for the Pies too,I see, dSTAR.

dSTAR

Brian017 wrote:

You go for the Pies too,I see, dSTAR.

Good old Collingwood forever,
we know how to play the game.
Side by side we stick together,
to uphold The Magpies name.
Hear the barrackers a shouting,
as all barrackers should,
Oh, the premiership's a cakewalk
For the good old Collingwood.

Lemlin

Actually one of the greatest advantages to the Irish team is being used to playing the ball along the ground like soccer players. The Aussies are only allowed to tackle when an Irish player has the ball in his hands, so if the player dribbles the ball on the ground they can't touch him.

Cavan's Cian Mackey used this to great advantage in the Schoolboys series earlier this year and finished player of the tournament. Brendan Devenney, who also played soccer for Finn Harps, also used it a few years ago.

At the moment I think the big disadvantage to the Australians is that alot of their best players aren't bothered to take part in the tournament. In the past few years, Australia have had as many as 17 players rejecting their call-ups. This especially tends to happen the year the Series is in Australia.

They used to like getting their trip to Ireland but that appears to be weaning now too as many of them weren't bothered coming over last year.