Good news on the horizon for Irish dsl users

Praetorian

A little birdy from Eircom has told me that there are plans in the pipeline to upgrade the upload rates accross the board on their dsl products. He was able to tell me that my own line was capable of 7.5 m/bit x 1 m/bit. I'm sure they won't be giving us this kind of speed, but an upgrade to 512 or 768 would be acceptable for the time being.

Another little bird has told me that sdsl also maybe in the pipeline too.

Smart should take note and I'm sure they will be able to match or beat this upgrade on their unbundled lines. Esat should do the same on theirs.

Chalk

was this little bird high on coke?
or has it been reliable in the past?
did the little bird give a timeframe or hint at pricing / caps ?

so many questions will follow for you

if this is true i will go back in time and +rep till the cows come home.

zuma

I remember back in March someone here was told by a "little bird" of possible download speed upgrades...was that you Praetorian??

If it was I believe you!!!...though 256k is more likely for upload than 512k..unless eircom are about to rollout VoIP themselves!

CyberGhost

sorry Praetorian, but I'll believe it when I see it

and even if it's true, it will be years before they do that.

KTRIC

If Eircon decided to give everyone in Dublin 10mb lines absolutly free I still wouldn't touch them. This just smells of propaganda to me.

damien

Praetorian, I think those two statements you made are one and the same. It is rumoured that they will be releasing a premium SDSL product. Available to anyone but only a business can afford it. The videoconferencing peeps will be happy. The rich ones anyway.

Sponge Bob

Eircom will introduce 512/512 SDSL for c.€499 a month and 1024/1024 SDSL for c.€999 a Month but have no plans to upgrade their ADSL packages .

Praetorian may be referring to their VDSL trial last year in South Dublin of which I have heard nothing bar that it worked .

CyberGhost

K-TRIC wrote:

If Eircon decided to give everyone in Dublin 10mb lines absolutly free I still wouldn't touch them. This just smells of propaganda to me.

I'd swallow my pride and gladly accept.

Praetorian

My little bird is not the head honcho, but he was told by the powers that be that increases are coming "accross the board". Now I would take that to mean all dsl packages.

The little bird mentioned that they were getting a few complaints from xbox live users in relation to only having 128 up. I reckon it's possible that the console is choking with such a tiny upload rate. Certainly 2 xboxes would definitely choke.

Of course time will tell. It would be great if Gombín could clarify Eircoms near future plans for us. Or perhaps Sponge Bob has?

Marcopolo85

Praetorian wrote:

A little birdy from Eircom has told me that there are plans in the pipeline to upgrade the upload rates accross the board on their dsl products. He was able to tell me that my own line was capable of 7.5 m/bit x 1 m/bit. I'm sure they won't be giving us this kind of speed, but an upgrade to 512 or 768 would be acceptable for the time being.

Another little bird has told me that sdsl also maybe in the pipeline too.

Smart should take note and I'm sure they will be able to match or beat this upgrade on their unbundled lines. Esat should do the same on theirs.

I stand corrected if I'm wrong, but I read on the Internet that SDSL's max speed is only 3MB. If that's right, how could conventional DSL offer up to 7MB?

Any ideas folks?

Mutant_Fruit

The little bird mentioned that they were getting a few complaints from xbox live users in relation to only having 128 up. I reckon it's possible that the console is choking with such a tiny upload rate. Certainly 2 xboxes would definitely choke.

Eircom would probably lose their status as "x-box live compatible" if they got enough complaints about laggy play. Thats probably one reason why they're thinking about upgrading.

Snaga

@Marcopolo

SDSL uses more of the spectrum (Think - "Your phonelines maximum bandwidth capability) for its own upload than ADSL.

For example....

If a full spectrum is like this...
|

---

|

Adsl would be like this....
|uuuudddddddddddd|

And SDSL would be like this...
|uuuuuuuudddddddd|

With 'u' denoting the spectrum used for upload and 'd' being the spectrum used for download. So you can see that while SDSL is capable of greater upload speeds, its maximum download speed is sacrificed for it.

zuma

DSL's max speed is about 8Mbit/1Mbit.

SDSL uses a lot more upload meaning that the maz download takes a hammering...so for SDSL 3Mbit/3Mbit probable is the best.

2M:256K would be nice but wishing any more is only wishfull thinking!!!

Sponge Bob

It will be whatever Gombín sez it will be if he chooses to enlighten us. SDSL is deffo this year.

gsand

dosnt matter if they upgrade, their caps are so restrictive and i doubt theyll change them-i hate eircom

Praetorian

They don't charge for going over caps.

OfflerCrocGod

I can't see them doing this, why should they - will they make money from it? No, they wont gain in any way so they wont do it. Maybe the year after the next we will get 256 up MAYBE but speeds like 512 are simply insane. €ircom would NEVER NEVER NEVER go out of their way to offer a proper broadband package and service to this country. They'd rather commit suicide.

Kare Bear

What big differences will bigger upload speeds make.

zuma

An increase in upload speed...nice...but not earth shattering for the average broadband user.
The numbers that ISP's use to attract customers to their service are cost and speed!

Leaving cost aside for now...am I the only person who has taken note of BT UK's intentions of offering 8Mbit/s over their dsl network???
Trials and such are either over or will be soon and customers can avail of this product in Novermber of this year...4months away!
Have eircom any intention of even offering residental customers 4Mbit at current 2Mbit prices?

When it comes down to it...upload speed increases will be favoured by a tiny portion of the customer base.
What is needed is an upload and download speed increase....doubling both speeds for current packages.

1M/128k -> 2M/256k
&
2M/128k -> 4M/256K

Also they should bring back the 512k service(further reach due to lower speeds) to replace those idiotic time products.
This can be easily done by giving the 1Mbit speeds but capping it to give 512k.

After reading about BT's 8Mbit November offerings I'm a bit steamed up!

causal

Kare Bear wrote:

What big differences will bigger upload speeds make.

The most significant atm is P2P - torrents and the like - a major reason why ISPs don't want to increase upload speeds.
VoIP will also benefit, as will
videoconferencing
sending large emails
uploading your website
etc.
causal

Marcopolo85

zuma wrote:

DSL's max speed is about 8Mbit/1Mbit.

SDSL uses a lot more upload meaning that the maz download takes a hammering...so for SDSL 3Mbit/3Mbit probable is the best.

2M:256K would be nice but wishing any more is only wishfull thinking!!!

Seems to be a theoretical max. Check this link:http://www.aspasia.net/html/broadband.html

This is an extract:

Maximum speed of ADSL is 8 Mbps downstream and around 1 Mbps upstream. However, because the speed varies with the length of the copper line, most DSL providers select a series of speeds that are smaller than the maximum so that more customers can obtain higher speeds.

Apparently even SDSL (accoring to the article) can only function to it's max within 300 metres of an exchane. :eek:

CuLT

I'm highly doubtful eircom will be doing any 1mb up DSL packages, most of the exchanges in the country have fairly old equipment and shoddy lines.
Unless you sleep in an exchange in the business district of a large town or city, you're probably not getting fancy DSL

Oh, I'd also heard that Eircom actually ARE planning to roll out VoIP at the end of the year, along with BT, etc.

axer

I think Eircom do realise that they need to get involved with VOIP or they will be left behind - that is enough reason to increase the upload speed.

TimTim

axer wrote:

I think Eircom do realise that they need to get involved with VOIP or they will be left behind - that is enough reason to increase the upload speed.

I'd say for whoever buys their VoIP package (At what cost?) will get the 256k upload, and those who don't get left behind in 128k land.

Gonzo

lets hope they do increae their upload right across the board, 128k upload is a complete joke and as an xbox live user it really makes it laggy most of the time, also if someone is using the computer to just browse the internet or play another game i.e. counterstrike and the other person plays xbox live, both the pc and xbox are choked to bits cause the 128k upload just cant handle 2 connections at once (even if it is just gaming or surfing). I hope eircom are treatened to lose their xbox live compatibility claim because realisticly any basic dsl offering for gaming is 256k upload+ and I dont know any other country that only offers 128k upload. Even if eircom only up it to 256k that will make a considerable difference to gamers across this land but this would still be the basic minimum in any other normal country.

Sponge Bob

if eirocm are offering 256k in conjunction with 'their' voip package we will get into interesting regulatory murk on the wholesale side , especially if eircom can suddenly port 'your' number over to the voip softswitches with surprising ease ....although with Comreg in charge I suspect that eircom will do what it wants regardless and will get tapped lightly with a small girly handbag every now and then .

causal

CuLT wrote:

Oh, I'd also heard that Eircom actually ARE planning to roll out VoIP at the end of the year, along with BT, etc.

Eircom already do business VoIP. They'll all roll out residential VoIP in one form or other - the question is what form will it take. Will it be a costly piece of hardware locked into one suuplier with relatively** cheap calls; or will you just sign up for a SIP account and pay-as-you-go using whichever and as many providers are you like = real choice; maybe signing up to one to keep your incoming calls.

No doubt the bigboys will try to stifle competition but blueface.ie and skytel.ie already making inroads in VoIP. The bigboys also know that the masses won't go out and get VoIP of their own volition. The masses will happily lemming along to the tune of the pied piper and drink from the poisoned pool of watered down VoIP.

causal
*pimps VoIP forum*


**relative to the current POTS ripoff prices

air

Any update on this from your birdy Praetorian?

Praetorian

No new news I'm afraid. I wish Gombín saw this thread

Chalk

was it not announced today?

they rejigged the caps on the lower packages and wiggled the pricing on the business packages?
id say thats about as close to a change as well see until next february

Zenith74

I also heard whispers of SDSL for December(2005)/January time from an Eircom business rep...

Serbian

From what I have heard, Eircom are stalling on increasing upload speeds as they don't want to eat into their leased line market. I know DSL doesn't have the reliability or the 'purity' of bandwidth that a leased line has, but I think some people would be tempted away from a leased line if they could get a decent upload speed on DSL.

zuma

Serbian wrote:

From what I have heard, Eircom are stalling on increasing upload speeds as they don't want to eat into their leased line market. I know DSL doesn't have the reliability or the 'purity' of bandwidth that a leased line has, but I think some people would be tempted away from a leased line if they could get a decent upload speed on DSL.

There must be something illegal about doing that???

Then again its not like we have a regulator who gives a damn....!!!

Praetorian

I think Eircom are probably within the law in this case, but Comreg should have defined broadband properly in the first place. They should have said 256 up, 128 up on dsl is slower than dual channel isdn!

zuma

Im not too bothered about the upload speed for most things...but to raise the download speeds above 2Mbit then a corresponding upload increase will be required.

2m/128k is absolutely stretching it at the moment 16:1!!!!!

bk

I certainly expect Eircom to launch SDSL products in urban areas.

Eircom is coming under increased pressure from Leaps SDSL products and IBB's SDSL like products. Also I expect both Smart and BT will start doing SDSL LLU. It is a very profitable area for competing telcos on LLU.

These products will be very expensive for consumers, however they will be very attractive to small to medium sized business who currently pay an arm and a leg for leased lines that they don't really need.

If Eircom don't offer SDSL they know they will get their lunch eaten by the other telcos who have a lot less to lose.

On VoIP, Eircom already offers VoIP to it's business customers. I don't understand why people are excited about VoIP across DSL, either way you will stay need to pay the line rental. You can currently get free call packages from UTV, BT and Eircom, so what is the big deal?

VoIP is only exciting across NTL's or IBB's network as then you don't need to pay line rental anymore.

The only reason I can think that Eircom would increase the upload speed on ADSL are:

1) problems with xbox users - this can be a surprisingly big problem.
2) increased competition from NTLs products which have higher upload speeds.
3) They are going to introduce a cheap 512k/128k product for around €20 and they want to increase the gap between it and their premium products 1m/256k, 2m/256k

zuma

IMHO a 512/128 BB package from eircom is only around the corner as a "replacement" for eircom Time!

The rest of your points are sound as well bk as VoIP is only of great use for DSL customers who make lots of calls outside Ireland.

AdMMM

I'd be a bit sceptical about this and even if it is true it will probably take an age to go through all the different departments in Eircom and the like!

air

bk wrote:

On VoIP, Eircom already offers VoIP to it's business customers. I didn't understand why people are excited about VoIP across DSL, either way you will stay need to pay the line rental. You can currently get free call packages from UTV, BT and Eircom, so what is the big deal?

VoIP is only exciting across NTL's or IBB's network as then you don't need to pay line rental anymore.

Not if you are currently paying line rental on multiple lines which you can then service through a single line with DSL and VOIP.
It mightnt mean much to home users with a single line, but to businesses it makes a whole lot of difference.

bk

air wrote:

Not if you are currently paying line rental on multiple lines which you can then service through a single line with DSL and VOIP.
It mightnt mean much to home users with a single line, but to businesses it makes a whole lot of difference.

Yes, that was my point. Eircom and almost all the other telcos and vendors are offering VoIP services and equipment already to drop into companies PABX systems. So yes it will save a business money, but it will have little effect on home users unless you make a lot of international calls.

causal

bk wrote:

So yes it will save a business money, but it will have little effect on home users unless you make a lot of international calls.

Yes, and that's true for those who must pay line rental anyway - as you quite rightly stated earlier.
But for those who don't pay line rental VoIP is most certainly King. For example:

I use blueface VoIP on NTL broadband.
My bi-monthly bill was typically with eircom €110 = line rental + calls
My bi-monthly bill is typically with blueface €22 = subscription + calls
That's an 80% saving this will be even higher since blueface new subscription options

So for anyone who doesn't have to pay line rental i.e. wireless, cable, or DSL with Smart, then VoIP is your new best friend.

causal