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No Limits - Make a complaint
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30-04-2001 12:17pm#1
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I just rang esat. Had a nice old rant to the girl on the phone about the nasty letter I received this morning, and I don't think she was too happy when I started calling their claims of "violating the spirit of the nolimits service" utter bull****
She claimed that they've sent "the letter" (tm) to the 10% of their customers with the highest usage - she says this is about 2600 people. She went on to blame eircom/the odtr for the problem (yeah they may have a point) and then went on about how they were the only company offering such a service, blah blah blah - which, I explained was why i was so angry at being "kicked" from the service as I can't afford to pay per-minute. When i started giving out about the cheek of them offering me IOL Gold instead she (unconvincingly) started explaning why that was better for me... Yeah right!!
Lets form an angry mob
- Munch0 -
2 things:
If your going to resign to the fact that they are going to cancel your account then abuse it as much as possible till May 31st.
If not go ahead and write a letter to the above address registering your disappointment, just don't go offering any excuses as to why you need to be connected at 3:30 in the morning to porn sites.
I personally will be doing both 0 -
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Munch what was it your letter said??
(Sorry I'm an lpb swine with no up to date info about hpbness)
That said I was planning on getting Eshat SNL into the gaff week after next....
If the bottom falls out of your world, drink Andrews and the world will fall out of your bottom!!
games?0 -
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Well I got the dreaded letter this morning...
My only regret now is that I didn't scrèw them by staying connected while I slept while downloading a few gigs of pr0n.
I think it's pretty funny that they advertise their IOL Gold crap after just kicking you off their already crap SNL service.
The fking cheek of that... like I'd want anything to do with eshat after seeing how crap SNL is and how they like to f*ck people around.<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
...you stand to save up to 20% per month...*
* This percentage saving is based only on internet call costs and does not include subscription costs.</font>
I think it's very unfair that they didn't just mail us and say - "hey, can ye keep your usage below X hours please? ta."
It's not like I was using SNL more than I was with my previous indigo/eircom dialup ffs.
Oh well, at least I'll be free from the usual fag9t 300ms IOL ping... but I can see things getting very quiet around here come May 31st
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I use a gold account and let me just say, you get fu*k all for your money.
I get nothing but busy tones, laggy games, **** downloads and bad connection speeds...
I also rang up sometime last week to complain about busy tones and bad connection speeds and they guy gave me a local dublin number to dial up to and that the 1890 number only connects me to the server, i then said "But whats the point of the gold account then? is the point not to dial up to a 1890 number and get cheaper call rates? So what good is your account if i have to connect to a local number at a local rate?" he just said something like "ehhh look im sorry thats what has to be done, bye"
My last phone bill was over 800 quid and thats mainly from dialling up with eircom due to the bad connections of iol.
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ESAT r **** head ****ers :
"if you continue with that tone sir i would no longer like to continue this conversation".....emmm ffs ye are costing us about 300 quid or more each and you act like ye are the vicims...esat is only leaving people who never use there service but have the direct debit going none the less this is a scam and there has to be something illegal about it. 0 -
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Ok your right in some ways but yesterday I contacted my Dads solicitors (yes he needs several ) and they're case was that yes at any time Esat can cut you off from the service as long as they're not discriminating in any way against a specific group of users. E.G. If the letter said "On the 30th of May you are being disconnected from the service as we have a right to do according to our terms of service." End of letter. But because they said "You are being cut off for excessive usage" they are immediately discriminating against a certain portion of their customer base even if it is these people that are causing them to make a loss they cannot state that in the letter.
And it was recommended that we contact the ombudsman immediately.
.logic.0 -
Just a foot note to your comments:<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Am I making sense here? How did people get so naive and spoiled? Internet access is a service that companies are free to provide at what ever price they want. </font>
Not true. The price isn't regulated by the ISPs and their not free to chgarge whatever they want. The ODTR and various customer rights organisations have a say in what is a fair price and ISPs can regulate depending on the standards set down. If they charge hugely over this price they're not going to get sanctioned to start trading by the fair trade commitee.<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The customer is free to choose between the various offerings. When you signed up for the service you agreed to Esat's right to terminate the service for any reason.</font>
Again not exactly true. The agreement stated they have a right to change the service for commercial or technical reasons and they can disconnect you if given 30 days notice. This doesn't mean they can disconnect for any reason as discrimination would come into play as it has done. For example they can't say "I don't like you. You smell so we're disconnecting you". However they can at any time withdraw the service from you if you are given 30 days notice. You will see that this isn't cutting you of at any time for any reason they choose.<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Protesting, simply because you are not getting what you want, is childish, unless you can establish that you have a right to that something. You have no more a right to cheap Internet services than you have to cheap flights to America (substitute something else you might want here).</font>
I'm afraid I also have a problem with this statement. I don't see any body protesting because we're not getting what we want. People are generally disgruntled because of the state of the Telecoms and Internet market in Ireland and this is basically the straw that broke the camels back. We were given a "nolimits" service and it remains to this day a nolimits service as I established with the marketing director yesterday as they have never released a change in policy to the general public. If they had brought in the 3 hour cut off that would be considered a change in policy and hence an altered service agreement but they did not enforce this 3 hour cut off hence the service remained nolimits.
Then this service was withdrawn from us stating that we had overused it. This in itself is ludicrous and unless we do stand up for ourselves in some form that over priced (and yes it is overpriced) internet access will stay the norm.
I believe it is only because of the amount of complaints lodged against eircom that Ethain Doyle introduced two new number, one exclusively for flat rate access and on the 30th of last month set a £10:99 per month charge rate on this number for ISP usage. This I solely believe is due to people like us standing up for ourselves and demanding Ireland move into the new millenium and draw an end to huge monopolies and money making engines and we can have some real competition and fair pricing structures as most of the rest of europe have. I've worked in the Internet and namely ISP business with the past 2 years and so I would consider myself extremly familiar with europes pricing structure and schemes and I can tell you Ireland is one of the worst at the moment sow hen you give out to people and call them whingers and babies please take a minute to realise what your saying and think about what these people you fob off as moaners are trying to dow ith the telecommunications market in Ireland. I find it empowering that so many young people do want to stand up and make a point and be heard (also some old people like dev and regi.. yeah regius ancient... )
So in finishing I would like to ruin my whole polite argument by saying "Get a ****ing clue."
.logic. (edited cause I ****ed up my tags.. grr)
[This message has been edited by logic1 (edited 02-05-2001).]0 -
I did not know that ISPs were regulated by the ODTR and I stand corrected on that. However, if the ODTR state exactly what price ISPs can offer their services at, you are not going to find may ISPs competing for your custom.<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by logic1:
Just a foot note to your comments:
Not true. The price isn't regulated by the ISPs and their not free to chgarge whatever they want. The ODTR and various customer rights organisations have a say in what is a fair price and ISPs can regulate depending on the standards set down. If they charge hugely over this price they're not going to get sanctioned to start trading by the fair trade commitee.</font>
OK, so you would have been happy if they changed the reason for the termination? Maybe we can get them to change the text of the letter. Like I said, I don't agree with the way they went about terminating the service. Would you be happy if they simply stopped the service for everyone?<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Again not exactly true. The agreement stated they have a right to change the service for commercial or technical reasons and they can disconnect you if given 30 days notice. This doesn't mean they can disconnect for any reason as discrimination would come into play as it has done. For example they can't say "I don't like you. You smell so we're disconnecting you". However they can at any time withdraw the service from you if you are given 30 days notice. You will see that this isn't cutting you of at any time for any reason they choose.
</font><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
I'm afraid I also have a problem with this statement. I don't see any body protesting because we're not getting what we want.
</font>
Really?
I have no problem with this. It does not go against my original point.<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
People are generally disgruntled because of the state of the Telecoms and Internet market in Ireland and this is basically the straw that broke the camels back.
</font>
I agree that the way they terminated the service was wrong. See my earlier post.<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
We were given a "nolimits" service and it remains to this day a nolimits service as I established with the marketing director yesterday as they have never released a change in policy to the general public. If they had brought in the 3 hour cut off that would be considered a change in policy and hence an altered service agreement but they did not enforce this 3 hour cut off hence the service remained nolimits.
Then this service was withdrawn from us stating that we had overused it. This in itself is ludicrous and unless we do stand up for ourselves in some form that over priced (and yes it is overpriced) internet access will stay the norm. </font>
The people I am fobbing off as moaners are those that are attacking Esat without examining the underlying telecommunications situation. Whingers and babies, these are your words for them, however.<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
I believe it is only because of the amount of complaints lodged against eircom that Ethain Doyle introduced two new number, one exclusively for flat rate access and on the 30th of last month set a £10:99 per month charge rate on this number for ISP usage. This I solely believe is due to people like us standing up for ourselves and demanding Ireland move into the new millenium and draw an end to huge monopolies and money making engines and we can have some real competition and fair pricing structures as most of the rest of europe have. I've worked in the Internet and namely ISP business with the past 2 years and so I would consider myself extremly familiar with europes pricing structure and schemes and I can tell you Ireland is one of the worst at the moment sow hen you give out to people and call them whingers and babies please take a minute to realise what your saying and think about what these people you fob off as moaners are trying to dow ith the telecommunications market in Ireland.
</font>
If Esat are to be blamed for the telecommunications mess in this country, then so are Clubie, Utvinternet etc. Maybe they should all be kicked out and then we would get some decent service
I have no problem with the above. Eircom's network was built up over generations at the taxpayers expense. They are now hogging it and providing obsolete services over it at expensive rates. Eircom are a monopoly and should be regulated. My problem is people complaining about one particular company (not a monopoly). I have no connection with Esat; I'm not connected with them in any way, not even as a customer. But it is clear to me that they are not responsible for the state of Irish telecommunications and Internet access.<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> I find it empowering that so many young people do want to stand up and make a point and be heard (also some old people like dev and regi.. yeah regius ancient... )
</font>
Even protesting against Eircom will do little good. They already know they provide an inadaquate service but continue to do so because they have a stanglehold over the local loop infrastructure.
I think people should be protesting against the Governemt and their quango, the ODTR.
[This message has been edited by Skeptic1 (edited 02-05-2001).]0 -
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I have got the letter now aswell.
I have been in college since september,away from monday to friday every week.At the weekends I would use it fairly heavily,probably 20 hours total. I have had about 3 overnight d/l's in the last few months.My 20 hours (roughly) that I spend online at weekends translates to an average of less than 3 hours a day,I don't need to tell you geniuses that.
This is supposed to constitute "over-use" of an unmetered off-peak deal?
If this amount of usage puts me in the top 10%(my c0ck it does) then i think its fair to say that a very large pecentage of users are wasting their time with Esat,as they must use it so little they'd be better off with a different ISP charging them by the minute,and it wouldn't be sub-standard either.0 -
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I say we get as many people as possible, Ringing them and complaining, repeadidly, if we ring them hundreds and hundreds of times,
and keep asking to talk to their manager till u get the head boy, and complain to him
If we get LOADS of ppl doing this, it will **** them off
Also if possible, get the mobile number of a high executive in ESAT, then put their number in the buy and sell,
8 bedroom house, Dalkey Area, £50,000
(ha ha)
RentZ
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ya them *****es at esat!!!!!!
**** sake no one ****tted me more than them this year!!!
o btw i use eircom and got isdn ye should try it and they bring a new thing out like esat! so hurry up and sign for it so i wont have to pay as muuch! thnx
- Da_cOmRaDe_MiKe<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> Man causes all problems. No man, no problems. - Stalin </font>0 -
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by takeesattocourt:
Hi everybody!!
I hope people are still checking up on this topic.I have been searching the internet for other people that have had promblems with no limits.
I was on tv3 if any of you saw that.I have been in contact with consumer affairs who are dragging their feet on the issue,they are saying it is an issue for the director of telecommunications who in turn say it is a consumer affairs issue.What crap,burecrats gone mad,the ombundsman will tell you all they can do is to get these deparpments to actually listen to you and respond not much else.
There are laws in place that cover false and misleading statements and false advertising,I would imagine this falls under tose categories,but the office of consumer affairs is not doing anything as far as I can see,lets put pressure on them,earn their money!
Also the director of telecommunications office doesn't seem to want to do anything about it either,equally lets keep puting pressure on them.
I agree with other people that say we have been discriminated against,imagine an all you can eat dinner advertised for £20,oh but fat people are not allowed!!
Lets stop acting like sheep and take esat to court only by speaking up will anything ever change in this country!!
Forget the excuses and arguments amongst yourselves it is a buisness transaction,esat gladly took your our money,whether they made money out of the service or not doesn't matter,they make millions anyway,no one in esat is going to starve because no limits didn't work out the way they wanted it to,but I bet a lot of you like me are spending extra money now!!
It's buisness to them,thats all,they tried with the letter to put the guilt trip on people bulls**t,does anyone actually think they care about you or I?
Almost every other country has block access,if esat can't make money from it then tough,don't offer it in the first place.
I am definetly not letting go of this issue,I am intent on getting them into court on the discrimination issue and I would love to hear from others by email martinhayes1@ireland.com nor do i have any intention of leaving the burecrats get away with doing nothing!
If anyone else is interested in getting involved please contact me,this country needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into the real world and companies like esat made accountable.
Remember : you or I would be fined very fast for having no car tax or something stupid like that!
Stop felling sorry for them its just buisness.
regards
Martin Hayes</font>
HOLY SH!T!! im not gonna read all that, but i presume the bottom line is that you're ****ed off with esat, (i used my powers of deduction when i saw your red face at top of post)
Renton has the right idea, cause the only reason they want a letter instead of call or Email is that you cant throw a call or email in the bin the second it arrives ,i say kid nap mary robinson and hold the ex-president for ransom, or just call and call and call and call and call and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
and call
untill they get so p!ssed off, that they compensate you somehow, and go public with it ,make fewls out of them
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