Best Hot Hatch ever?

BrianD3

I see a few car magazines are raving about the new Renault Clio 182 Trophy. Some are hailing it as the best hot hatch ever. It's supposed to be a bit better than the already excellent Clio 182/182 Cup.

What do people here think is the best hot hatch of all time. Also, what constitutes a hot hatch. Is a Clio V6 a hot hatch. What about the Focus RS and Alfa 147 GTA. Are these hot hatches or are they something different because they're faster, more expensive, more complex than traditional hot hatches.

Alfasudcrazy

I think the definition of a 'Hot hatch' has become quite blurred and diluted in recent years. Im my opinion its not proper or realistic to compare a hot hatch supermini class car with lets say the Golf GTi. These are just like chalk and cheese.
Anyway a true hot hatch has to have some substance as in a Golf GTi to be 'in the club' Renault Clio's are not permitted as they are underage - ie; too small.
There are no nice hot hatches in current production today unfortunately - the Golf Gt1 is just too bland and anonymous to be even considered a good buy.

While the Alfa GT is available as a 3.2V6 - I am really waiting for a GTA version to be launched - then we can start talking Gti's in earnest. :cool:

HashSlinging

My Leon Cupra TDI

ciarsd

@ alfa - agreed. there seems to be a mixup as to whats/whats not a hot hatch. looks like everyone has tried jumping on the bandwagon.

for me a hot hatch is the likes of the MK2 GTi, 205 1.9 GTi etc etc raw drivers cars and none of this new no frills nonsence that we are seeing more and more both on tv and in the mags.

oh and they are all most certainly petrol engined cars

green-blood

rubbish

MK1 Golf
Pug 205 1.9 GTI
Lotus Sunbeam
Clio Williams

MercMad

Having owned and driven many of the above I believe that the original Clio 16V/Williams was/is the best. I havent driven the current version but there is NO car that offers the same steering feel and braking stability as the Clio !

Its an amazing car. Even the 205GTI doesn't get near it, and thats a fantastic car in itself ! The problem with most current cars is they have all put on weight, and no amount of electronic trickery can "add lightness"

The turn in, wet or dry, is outstanding and I think the French are the only manufacturers who captured it perfectly. Even Alfa were/are light years away from it !

Then theres the shear grunt of the 16V, which at 150BHP doesn't sound like much today but its the power delivery, instant, with zero torque steer that sets it apart.

Just BELT it through a wet bend on full throttle, into another hairpin under heavy braking and you'll know what I'm talking about. I tried the same in a Subaru Turbo and it got very scary..............possibly fractionally quicker but not as much fun!

BrianD3

I agree about the French hatches. They have gotten massive praise over the years in the car mags but Peugeot seem to have gone downhill a little in recent years. However this latest Clio Trophy really is being raved about even more so than the Clio Williams when it was introduced. The big thing about this Clio is supposed to be the dampers whcih have an extra reservoir each and cost 10 times as much as the dampers in a normal Clio 182.

Anyhow I disagree with Alfasud - the 182 is most definitely a hot hatch IMO.To me a hot hatch is Golf sized or smaller, relatively light, nimble, runs on petrol, front engined, front wheel drive. It shouldn't be overly expensive or overly powerful. It's hard to come up with an exact definition though.

Haven't driven that many hot hatches myself. The ones I've had a go in are the Mk II Golf, R19 16v, Citroen ZX Volcane. Of these I liked the Renault the most, the turn in and handling were "just right" with the ZX feeling a bit twitchy. Some would probably prefer this twitchiness.

Have driven cooking versions of the Pug 205, 309 and 306. Cars were great fun to drive even in diesel and 1.4 versions So I can see why the GTi versions are so highly regarded.

iregk

Personally, being a pug man (205gti to my current 306gti) I've big interest in the hot hatch class but as people say it has become distored in recent years.

For me the ultimate hot hatch was the V6 Clio, but most disreguard this car. So leaving that aside my list is as follows.

Pug 1.9 205GTI (awesome car)
Golf MK1
Reno 5 GT Turbo (the word overpowered go kart, complete brown trousers but great fun)

Joeface

The suzuki Swift 1.3Gti

it was very cheap, great fun to drive,and pretty quick.

anyway most of the modren hot hatchs are actually slower than there previous verisons and not half as much fun to drive

jayok

All seem to be missing the old reliable of hot-hatches here - the Civic Type-R. I am little biased here but I would actually see this as a hot hatch compared to say the current Golf GTi. With the new Golf you can get leather seats, cruise control, etc. That's not hatch stuff. The CTR on the other hand, you get nothing of those comforts, even A/C is optional!

To me a hot hatch is Golf sized or smaller, relatively light, nimble, runs on petrol, front engined, front wheel drive. It shouldn't be overly expensive or overly powerful. It's hard to come up with an exact definition though.

The CTR meets these requirements. The only thing is the tax in this country makes it expensive. Considering it's £16,000 new in the UK and €36,000 over here! :mad:

HashSlinging

Top gear done a comparison with the new golf, CTR, Cupra R and the megan 225, the CTR came a few milliseconds ahead of the Leon, the golf was a couple of seconds behind the Cupra R and the megan came last.

camarobill

205 gti,golf m2 gti 16v'8v,vr6 g60 ,old hot hatch,s can still pack a punch :cool:

milltown

Always had a soft spot for the Citroen AX GT myself! Pretty decent equipment level and proof positive that you don't need a big, powerful engine if you shed the weight (only 85 bhp if memory serves). An absolute hoot to drive and quicker mid range acceleration than a beemer 325i in it's day.

DoctorEdgeWild

Mk 1 Golf GTi,
205 GTi,
Renault 5 - Purely for the pleasure it has given to it's drivers.

Best looks wise has to be the Clio v6 - Unbelievable in the flesh!

Gatster

AX GTi...my old boss had one as a company car when I was 17 or 18, absolute total fun (I had a 1.0 AX at the time). But given the choice I'd get a Renault 5 Turbo 2 or a Clio V6

Mailman

XR2i

And my reasoning is as follows:
In it's time it was the best package available to a young man looking for a bit of Ooomph.
Dynamically it wasn't great but if you were a young male you could get your thrills at an affordable price. It offered cheap motoring and reliability with decent pace.

In it's heyday 1 out of every 20 new cars sold in the UK was an XR2i.

But if that offends your sensibilities then I'll retrench to the trusty 205 GTi 1.6.

unkel

milltown wrote:

quicker mid range acceleration than a beemer 325i in it's day.

Eh, not really. 109NM vs 245NM says all

Always liked the wee AX though

Ol skool hot hatch credit to Golf Mk1 and 205 but that was a long long time ago...

HashSlinging

Ford Escort RS Turbo, mad car...

Con9903

MK1 golf GTI imo. like previous people have said, it offers a raw driving experience, punchy 1.6 engine (Later 1.8) and sticks to the road.
In the golfs the spirit of the GTI was lost with the demise of the mark 2.

the magician

ford fiesta rs turbo or the mark II golf gti are great hot hatches. We have 2 of those golf's and the fiesta and man are they fun to drive.

TUTS

The 106 Rallye 1.3 & 1.6 Series 1 & 2's
106 XSI 1.4 & 1.6
Punto (the turbo one)
Mk1 Golf 8 valve GTI
Charade GTI - rocket
205 GTI

and
even the GTI 106 (great package)

There's a good few more.

fdisk

Sorry, but you would have to go back a bit further than the Renault Clio. Even the Golf GTi has to bow down before the Lancia Delta HF Integrale. Took ever rally championship going before the advent of the 4 wheel drive Quattro, and can still leave many a 'supercar' at the lights.

http://www.hf-integrale.co.uk/

S2000

I am a big Civic Type R fan.... aparently they are nearly as quick as the S2000.... which is pretty quick!

jayok

Civic 0-60 in 6.6s
S2000 0-60 in 6.2s

Oh the joy

S2000

When I bought my S2000 I read 5.7seconds ..... but most articles differ.... I think 6.5 is closer.... great fun though!

milltown

unkel wrote:

Eh, not really. 109NM vs 245NM says all

Always liked the wee AX though

Ol skool hot hatch credit to Golf Mk1 and 205 but that was a long long time ago...

Eh, who said anything about torque figures? Power to weight ratio and the right gearing is what it was about. I'm not suggesting that either side of that 50 - 70 the AX wouldn't have been whipped but that was the range that was commonly timed as an indication of B road overtaking ability.

ambro25

fdisk wrote:

Sorry, but you would have to go back a bit further than the Renault Clio. Even the Golf GTi has to bow down before the Lancia Delta HF Integrale. Took ever rally championship going before the advent of the 4 wheel drive Quattro, and can still leave many a 'supercar' at the lights.

http://www.hf-integrale.co.uk/

I've had an Delta Integrale, but would not have classed it as a hot hatch in the sense of this thread. It's a hatchback, sure and boy was it hot - but too big to qualify IMO.

Having had a 3-door AX 1.4 TZS [which was the exact same car (engine-wise) as the GT but the bourgeois version with electric windows and nice cloth trimming] I can vouch for Milltown's opinions, having myself left a few 3- and 5-series Beemers and even once a 190 E16 (that right? The one with the funny panels and ridiculously big aerofoil on back) a few times in my wake when I used to commute Metz-Soissons by Nationale (with all the overtaking that supposes ). Also used to leave 205 1.6 GTI standing at lights (but got caught up pretty quick, granted).

Mine would have to be the Pug 205 1.9 GTI, preferably the 'Griffe' edition (was my "dream-accessible" car for a long time as a kid). Or a 205 T16 if allowed, given it's size

Only alternative would be (as a toy) a non-hatch, though comparable size-wise, a (very limited series, but official) 1.6 Turbo MX-5 by BRG.

iregk

Id agree i wouldn't class the Integrale as a hot hatch. It had a hatch boot alright but size wise it was way to big. The engine bay alone was bigger than a reno 5!!!

I remember watching top gear a few years back (were going way back here) and Clarkson was at some car show and had a mini where the chap has done a reno v6 job on it and put a 2L v6 engine into the back seats!!! As JC was ripping around in it he had to wear military standard ear plugs and his ears still bled!!!! The chap put no sound profing in what so ever so a 2L V6 12 inch from your ear... It was an absolute rocket....