Creative Zen or iRiver h10

Draupnir

So Im gonna buy one of these, most likely the Creative, can someone give me a tip off as to wear to buy them, preferably in one of the M50 shopping centres:

JoeKelly

Hmmm you'd be better off buying it over the internet from amazon or somewhere like that they tend to be terribly over priced in this greedy country! Go for the creative...is it the zen micro?

Draupnir

yeah, thats the one, the micro. I only want 5/6 gigs and a decent battery life. id buy it off the internet, but really, when i spend that kinda money, i dont like waiting to play with the gizmo, plus i doubt the price difference will be more than 20 quid anyway.

anyone know of shops in Blanch, Pavilions or even Dundrum/Liffey Valley where I could get my mits on both and see which I like best?

T-b0n3

Aint exactly sure where is best to get them but i'd have to suggest you get a H10 instead, much better , ive had both. Between me and my mates we've had 4 micro's and they've all had the same problem, audio jack gets loose and you have to hold it in palce to listen properly, which is a joke. Looks cooler too, but is a bit more pricey afaik.

my 2 cents anyway

Adam

hopeful

Draupnir wrote:

yeah, thats the one, the micro. I only want 5/6 gigs and a decent battery life. id buy it off the internet, but really, when i spend that kinda money, i dont like waiting to play with the gizmo, plus i doubt the price difference will be more than 20 quid anyway.

anyone know of shops in Blanch, Pavilions or even Dundrum/Liffey Valley where I could get my mits on both and see which I like best?

Bcool in Pavillions have the H10. Not sure if they have the Creative.

Draupnir

I shall have a wander out there tomorrow, thanks for the tip off mate.

Addlcove

if you do get the headphone thing with creative just call them and they swap the player. had a mate that had it, didn't take more than 5-7 days after he mailed it to them and he had the replacement.

magic roundabou

i have the creative zen and think its brillent , i decided to get that one rather than the ipod mainly for the radio which i some times prefer to listen to, and that you have an option to record the radio is a great bonus as well, the only thing i would have against it is that it does not have a long battrie life , only about 5ish hours. i got the 6 gig one and at the moment i have 1300 songs and still have about 30% of the memorty left , so for me that loads of space , dont know what i would do with the 20k!!

Addlcove

There's a way to check the battery life on your player

rip one song in 128kbps - set it to play on repeat at volume 10 with EQ and "smartvolume" turned off.

you should get at least 8 hours worth of battery from that.

RicardoSmith

Draupnir wrote:

yeah, thats the one, the micro. I only want 5/6 gigs and a decent battery life. id buy it off the internet, but really, when i spend that kinda money, i dont like waiting to play with the gizmo, plus i doubt the price difference will be more than 20 quid anyway.

anyone know of shops in Blanch, Pavilions or even Dundrum/Liffey Valley where I could get my mits on both and see which I like best?

Dixons, and Tommy's Toyland in Blanch. The camera shop might do them aswell. Check out the Rio Carbon in the 3G store. €209 for 5GB's. Meant to have longer battery life. Nicer looking IMO, but less features.

Bard

Harvey Norman do them also.

Creative Zen Micro 5GB: €229.
iRiver H10 5GB: €239.

I know which one I'd buy (the iRiver).

I work in HN and we get more Zen Micro's back for repairs than any other MP3 player.

RicardoSmith

Bard wrote:

Harvey Norman do them also.

Creative Zen Micro 5GB: €229.
iRiver H10 5GB: €239.

I know which one I'd buy (the iRiver).

I work in HN and we get more Zen Micro's back for repairs than any other MP3 player.

Thats a very good point. Wich has the best warranty? or are they all much the same? Is the iPod Mini any better for warranty?

Draupnir

Im now the proud owner of a h10, bought in the wonderful Harvey Norman, Airside. Cheers Bard. It was 279 though.

Thats a great shop though, my first trip out there, and I was like a kid in a sweet shop. Its gadget heaven.

Bard

Draupnir wrote:

Im now the proud owner of a h10, bought in the wonderful Harvey Norman, Airside. Cheers Bard. It was 279 though.

Thats a great shop though, my first trip out there, and I was like a kid in a sweet shop. Its gadget heaven.

Should have come to me in Harvey Norman in Dundalk then. We're generally ahead of the Swords branch with the price drops. They did go down to 239. ... and yeah, they're good stores.

To answer the warranty question - the iRiver has the best one - with a 2 year warranty as standard.

quad_red

the iRiver.

Without a doubt. The Zen was fine but the lack of USB 1 compatibility (a problem for me) and the inferior sound and build quality would leave me rooting for the superb iRiver every time.

RicardoSmith

quad_red wrote:

the iRiver.

Without a doubt. The Zen was fine but the lack of USB 1 compatibility (a problem for me) and the inferior sound and build quality would leave me rooting for the superb iRiver every time.

Anything that supports USB2 by default supports USB1.

So what do you mean by "lack of USB 1 compatibility" ???

Bard

RicardoSmith wrote:

Anything that supports USB2 by default supports USB1.

Not true. Many USB2.0 devices specifically require the faster speed that USB2.0 provides - e.g.: CD/DVD Burners, External Hard Drives, and yes - some MP3 players - and so simply won't work on a USB1.1 port.

Drapper

Bard wrote:

Not true. Many USB2.0 devices specifically require the faster speed that USB2.0 provides - e.g.: CD/DVD Burners, External Hard Drives, and yes - some MP3 players - and so simply won't work on a USB1.1 port.

I've the iriver H10 and its fantastic ! long life, portable and actually kinda cool design, got it on Komplett in Feb.

You can get as Bard said!

quad_red

the understanding that it was fully USB1 compatible (silly me for believing shop assistants and not confirming it myself).

It CAN be used as a data drive over USB1 but you cannot transfer music to use on the player unless you have USB2.

And I echo all praise for the iRiver H10 - got one myself recently and its a beauty. (didn't know you could use it with Windows Media Player though - the guy in Peats said you couldn't!?!? - although that's not saying much)

Bard

Actually, using the H10 with Windows Media Player makes a lot more sense than using it with the awkward iRiver Plus software that comes with it. One of the first things I tell people who buy it from me is not to bother with the bundled software at all and just use Media Player with it. That way I get them coming back with problems far less often.

Drapper

Bard wrote:

Actually, using the H10 with Windows Media Player makes a lot more sense than using it with the awkward iRiver Plus software that comes with it. One of the first things I tell people who buy it from me is not to bother with the bundled software at all and just use Media Player with it. That way I get them coming back with problems far less often.

Iriver Plus sucks big time and if it update once its updates every blooming day !!!

only thing is that when you wanna upgrade the H10 you may need to have iriver plus installed if you not able to manually update the HD :-)

Blondie86Star

DO NOT GET THE CREATIVE

Mines fcuked after 6 weeks
How much is it 2 get repaired, HN guy?

hopeful

quad_red wrote:

the understanding that it was fully USB1 compatible (silly me for believing shop assistants and not confirming it myself).

It CAN be used as a data drive over USB1 but you cannot transfer music to use on the player unless you have USB2.

Just to be a pain I have the IAudio X5L which has separate USB 2.0 and 1 ports (and of course black goes with anything)

Scubadevils

hopeful wrote:

Just to be a pain I have the IAudio X5L which has separate USB 2.0 and 1 ports (and of course black goes with anything)

Here here, and its the dogs....

Draupnir

except it has that ridiculous slogan written along the screen and also, that hump on the back puts me off too.

iRiver Plus aint that bad if you use it ONLY to transfer music to the iRiver. Ive been ripping mp3's from cd using a separate lame encoder and the just transferring them drag and drop.

then I use that software from misticriver to create the database. much better than iRiver Plus.

hopeful

Draupnir wrote:

except it has that ridiculous slogan written along the screen and also, that hump on the back puts me off too.

Oddly coincidental 'cause I also have a hump on my back...no slogan tho

Scubadevils

Draupnir wrote:

except it has that ridiculous slogan written along the screen and also, that hump on the back puts me off too.
QUOTE]
'
When you use one believe me the slogan will not come into things at all. The hump is to the front and it actually gives a nice feel to it.

RicardoSmith

Bard wrote:

Not true. Many USB2.0 devices specifically require the faster speed that USB2.0 provides - e.g.: CD/DVD Burners, External Hard Drives, and yes - some MP3 players - and so simply won't work on a USB1.1 port.

How then do you explain that they all work on serial and parallel ports which are even slower than USB 1.1.

Bard

Blondie86Star wrote:

DO NOT GET THE CREATIVE

Mines fcuked after 6 weeks
How much is it 2 get repaired, HN guy?

If it's failed after 6 weeks through no fault of your own, then bring it back to the store you bought it from and it should be repaired or replaced for free under the standard 12 month manufacturers warranty that comes with it. You'd be surprised how few people make use of that warranty. Go back to the store!

RicardoSmith wrote:

How then do you explain that they all work on serial and parallel ports which are even slower than USB 1.1.

Er, I don't explain that they do that - because they don't. As an example, I sell a particular brand of external DVD burner which will work on nothing but USB2. I warn customers of this before they buy it - that they should be sure that it is USB2 and not USB1.1 that they have in their PC. The same goes for a number of other products.

RicardoSmith

Bard wrote:

Er, I don't explain that they do that - because they don't. As an example, I sell a particular brand of external DVD burner which will work on nothing but USB2. I warn customers of this before they buy it - that they should be sure that it is USB2 and not USB1.1 that they have in their PC. The same goes for a number of other products.

You said the reason they won't work is because USB 1.1 is too slow. I'm pointing out that serial and parallel are slower and HDs and optical burners and MP3s players work with that, even though its slower. A DVD burner might not work at 16x but it would work a 1x or 0.5x. Did a HD. They'll all work with USB1.1 they'll just be slower. Other then speed theres no difference. The only place where you NEED USB2 speed is encoding live video, or audio.

Have you acutally tried a HD and MP3 player where they've not worked with USB 1.1 ? Becaus I don't believe that to be true at all.

Bard

RicardoSmith wrote:

You said the reason they won't work is because USB 1.1 is too slow.

I said that SOME USB2 devices won't work with USB1.1. I concede that most WILL work (but will be 40 or so times slower) but SOME simply won't work at all. This I stand over as it is perfectly true. Case in point being an external Iomega USB2 DVD burner that I've sold plenty of. It does not work with USB1.1 at all. Your statement that "Anything that supports USB2 by default supports USB1" is slightly flawed.

I'm pointing out that serial and parallel are slower and HDs and optical burners and MP3s players work with that, even though its slower.

Some - not all of them - will work with the slower interfaces.

Have you acutally tried a HD and MP3 player where they've not worked with USB 1.1 ? Becaus I don't believe that to be true at all.

Yes, actually, I have. Certain Creative players would work only on a USB2 port for me. I concede that you are correct about USB2 Hard Drives, but I do insist that not all USB2 devices will work on a USB1.1 port - the Iomega "Super DVD Burner" being a case in point.

This is, however, entirely off the topic in question, that being the seemingly ever-recurring question of "which is best? Zen or H10?" - and the ever-recurring answer of "iRiver - hands down - every time."

RicardoSmith

USB 2 is backward compatible. So I'm very curious which devices don't adhere to that standard. Which creative MP3 player doesn't work, whats the model ditto the DVD burner. Ditto the HD. Its a related topic to MP3 players which are all USB standard.

Bard

USB2 being backward compatible doesn't mean that USB2 devices will work on USB1 ports. It means the opposite - USB1 devices will work on USB2 ports - it's what's called 'legacy support'.

The 30Gb Creative Zen Xtra wouldn't work for me on a standard USB1.1 port and only worked on a USB2 port, although I'm sure this could have been a fluke. That aside, I am sure that there are some MP3 players that require the faster speed and won't work with the slower one.

If you actually read the 2nd last paragraph of my last post you'd see me say that while I concede you may be correct about external hard drives, the Iomega "Super DVD Burner" requires USB2 and will not work on the slower interface.

That was the second time I mentioned it as a device that wouldn't work with USB1.1 but would with USB2... so why are you still asking for an example?

quad_red

the zen micro is not USB 1 compatible in relation to transferring music (you can transfer data over USB 1 but you need USB 2 transfer music to play).

I bought a zen in January and it quickly failed ( I think the HD was corrupted or something). The shop took it back and replaced it immediately.

Saying that though my flatmate bought a H10 on Tuesday which had to return yesterday (it looked like a similiar HD problem).

So it seems quite common now. I suppose lower prices mean less quality control?!!?

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Ive seen an Iriver H320 on teamdigital.net, which, with postage and packaging etc included comes to about €321, realistically, this is probably the best price i'm gonna get but does anyone know of anywhere that they can be acquired for cheaper

Bard

sean_keevey wrote:

Ive seen an Iriver H320 on teamdigital.net, which, with postage and packaging etc included comes to about €321, realistically, this is probably the best price i'm gonna get but does anyone know of anywhere that they can be acquired for cheaper

If any retail outlets have them still in stock (which most don't - they're gone "end of life" some time now), they should be selling them for no more than €299. Where I work, we're sold out of them a while now, but we sold them out at that price.

The 5GB H10 is now going end of life and stocks from suppliers of it are quite low. It's being replaced in a few weeks with a 6GB model (with FM tuner) and a 5GB version (without FM tuner). The 20GB version of the H10 has been delayed until September at the earliest.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

By end of life do you mean that they've stopped making them altogether?

Bard

sean_keevey wrote:

By end of life do you mean that they've stopped making them altogether?

It is the end of that products life. In other words ... yes. What you said.

RicardoSmith

Because I've never seen a device that works with USB2 and not USB1.1 According to Iomega site (and other reviews) the Super DVD Burner is backward compatible with USB 1.1 (they specifically mention that it limits drive speed to 4x4x6x6x). Ditto the creative site, and other reviews. The Creative Zen Xtra and Zen Micro both work with USB 1.1 (just slowly). :cool: However theres lots of reports of people having problems with their USB. So its not that the devices don't support it, but that theres often configuration issues on the PC side.

Those iRivers don't stay in production too long do they. I'd prefer if they fixed the firmware instead of releasing more models. One of the reasons I didn't buy a H300 player was because I thought they never fix the firmware issues. I think the Cowon players get updated more often, which would be a major plus point in my mind.

RicardoSmith

hopeful wrote:

Just to be a pain I have the IAudio X5L which has separate USB 2.0 and 1 ports (and of course black goes with anything)

Seems to be the best player. Where did you get yours and for how much?

Draupnir

I'd say he bought it in uglycrapsloganonscreenville.

hopeful

Draupnir wrote:

I'd say he bought it in uglycrapsloganonscreenville.

And I thought I was the only person to be aware of that place...great minds think alike I guess

cosgrove80

Was thinking of getting the iRiver h10 6GB when it comes out but I read on engadget that the Creative Zen Sleek is up for preorders on the Creative site.

http://uk.europe.creative.com/shop/product.asp?prod=958&page=1

It's only slightly bigger than the h10 but it's 20GB.

Could be an option

1huge1

Bard wrote:

Not true. Many USB2.0 devices specifically require the faster speed that USB2.0 provides - e.g.: CD/DVD Burners, External Hard Drives, and yes - some MP3 players - and so simply won't work on a USB1.1 port.

thats new info to me
i used my h10 on my computer which is usb 1.1 and my laptop which is usb 2.0 and the both worked perfectly aside from the fact that the computer was well slower

Urban Weigl

Based on my own experience, get either the iRiver (gee, real original name guys) or iPod. Both are good tbh, whereas the Creative Zen just isn't very zenny...

Bard

1huge1 wrote:

thats new info to me
i used my h10 on my computer which is usb 1.1 and my laptop which is usb 2.0 and the both worked perfectly aside from the fact that the computer was well slower

Good for you. Nice player. Glad it's working well for you.

I didn't say the H10 wouldn't work with USB1.1. I said that SOME MP3 players (and other USB2 devices) wouldn't.

RicardoSmith

That doesn't make sense. USB2 includes USB1.1.

quad_red

You can use both the H10 and the Micro Zen as data drives with USB 1 and USB 2.

You can transfer music onto the H10 using USB 1 and USB 2.

You HAVE TO HAVE USB 2 to transfer music onto the Micro Zen. :cool: I don't know the exact reason why but you must. Full stop. You cannot use USB 1 to transfer music onto the Micro Zen.

RicardoSmith

quad_red wrote:

....You HAVE TO HAVE USB 2 to transfer music onto the Micro Zen. :cool: I don't know the exact reason why but you must. Full stop. You cannot use USB 1 to transfer music onto the Micro Zen.

Well I can't find anything on that anywhere on the web. In fact I found a few reviews were people were using USB1.1 with no problems.

I know of only one issues with the USB on the Zen Micro.

If the Zen is connected via USB1.1 then it will play the audio via MediaSource through its lineout. If it is connected via Firewire/USB2 (with higher bandwidth) it will buffer and play the audio on the PC.

I'm wondering are you confusing it with MTP issue?

v2 firmware updates the Zen Micro also has Media Transfer Protocol (MTP) support. MTP support allows driverless transfer, but only on systems with Windows XP and Windows Media Player 10. The player will appear as a device (*not* a drive letter) in Windows Explorer, and both audio and data files can be dragged and dropped to the player. The device can also be used for management of audio files with Windows Media Player 10. There has been a press release from Creative, part of which says that there will be a firmware release in Q1 2005 for the Zen Touch and Xtra that will allow MTP support also. The older Zens do not have drive letter or MTP support, and no future firmware updates have been announced.

Neither of these things prevent you transfering data or music via USB1.1 In fact every review specifically mentions its compatible with 1.1. Maybe the're all wrong.

quad_red

I don't know where you read that but I was wholly unsuccessful in getting the Zen to transfer music under USB1 and I've met other people with similiar problems.