Not allowed to carry enough hours to next month

snappieT

Hi all, just looking for suggestions on how to tackle the following.

I've recently started back working in my Summer Job, and I'm on a clock-in system (which I wasn't last year). My standard is 7 hours per day, with 1.83 days off per month paid.
Normally there are 7 people on this helpdesk, but the numbers are low at the moment due to holidays and sickness. As of tomorrow, I will be permanantly on the phone as opposed to the call queue because they are down to just 2 phone answerers otherwise.
Over the last few days, I have effectively been forced into working longer hours due to the high workload... today I did 10 hours, yesterday was not far off. I only found out today, but only 10 of my additional hours can transfer from month to month. Already (in the last week) I have built up these 10 hours. Once I go on the phones, my hours will only become worse, having to stay back until 6.30 some days to ensure that everyone has finished OK.
I can't take the days off this month, 2 people manning the phones in a company with >800 employees simply isn't possible, and since I am a temporary worker, it is HR that pay for me, not IT. They aren't willing to let me get overtime (which is meant to be time and a half after my basic 7 hours)

How can I tackle this? I don't get paid, I can't take the day off now, and I can't transfer so my summer holidays are paid rather than unpaid (they're in August)

Thanks in advance

Plastic Scouser

Have you asked your manager about carrying over your hours?

Where I used to work we had a flexi system where you were only allowed to carry over 8 hours but I know that at certain times of the year people had to work long hours and there was no chance of time off (nor overtime pay) so the managers were able to make an exception and let people carry over more hours than they would normally be able to.

leeroybrown

Plastic Scouser wrote:

Have you asked your manager about carrying over your hours?

Without wanting to sound too cynical, my instant reaction would be that they'll probably be equally understaffed next month too. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if whatever discretionary hours they might possibly offer would disappear due to a busy centre next month.

Easily_Irritated

Do you have a contract?

RicardoSmith

They should be able to make an exception if you are willing to help out like that. If not, then become suitably inflexible, and create some other commitment outside of work that you have to attend instead of working for free. Of course you don't have to give them a reason for taking time off, or not working for free.

Give them a chance to use common sense before doing it though.

nesf

RicardoSmith wrote:

If not, then become suitably inflexible, and create some other commitment outside of work that you have to attend instead of working for free. Of course you don't have to give them a reason for taking time off, or not working for free.

From how I read his post, it looked like he was being paid normal wages for his overtime as opposed to being paid time and a half.

I could be wrong here though.

If you are not being paid for your overtime..... Hmmm. I've done it in the past, where I liked the job or needed a good reference from there. But I normally wouldn't even consider it.

iirc (and I could be wrong here) you are not entitled to time and a half unless you are a full time employee (ie working 40 hours a week normally). I'd look it up, except I don't have that much time before work and I've other stuff that I need to get done.

yossarin

leeroybrown wrote:

Without wanting to sound too cynical, my instant reaction would be that they'll probably be equally understaffed next month too.

agree completly. sounds like they're scamming you mate. They know if you give them any trouble they can just fire you. also, manages will never change somthing where its working for them and they are gaining somthing for free.

push back, but be the model of politeness and reasonableness. What you want to do is to change the situation so they have to pay for those extra hours - have other commitments, etc. make your time a premium. I'll bet that if you can do that then other staff will magicly come back.

do what RicardoSmith said though: it may just be an 'oversight' by your manager. given them the chance to make it right.

pickarooney

Rather than carrying the hours over, can you exchange them for a day in lieu at a less busy time (or is that essentially the same thing)?

snappieT

Thanks very much for all the responses, I'm going to deal with them one at a time.

Have you asked your manager about carrying over your hours?

Yes, and it seems that only 10 hours can be transferred, though talking to HR may resolve this.

they'll probably be equally understaffed next month too

No, 2 people who were on the phones are on holidays for a month and 3 weeks respectively. Next month there won't really be the extra demand on myself to be on the phones.

Do you have a contract?

Yes, and it says that either party can cancel with a week's notice, and that there is no overtime attatched to the position

From how I read his post, it looked like he was being paid normal wages for his overtime as opposed to being paid time and a half.
I could be wrong here though.

I'm afraid you are wrong nesf. My extra hours are going unpaid. I'd be chuffed to get paid at the same rate, let alone time and a half!

Rather than carrying the hours over, can you exchange them for a day in lieu at a less busy time (or is that essentially the same thing)?

No, that is effectively the same thing.


So you see that I'm in a bit of a cul-de-sac. Doing my basic 7 hours is unfair on my co-workers, who have taken time to help me with queries I have had whilst on the phones. I can't get overtime (it seems) and I can only carry over 10 hours (it seems).

Ultimately I need to transfer this month's hours over to August 5th, when I'm off on holidays, taking 7 work days off. I already get 3 off as part of my standard time off, and at the rate I'm going, accumulating the extra 28 hours should be no problem, thereby making my time off fully paid. But asking for an extra 180% of the normal limit on hours transfer is pushing it a bit...

Any more suggestions

secret_squirrel

snappieT wrote:

Doing my basic 7 hours is unfair on my co-workers

Not true - its the company that is being unfair not you. Only by being firm with the company will you and you're co-workers be treated fairly.

Unless the company is willing to compromise - I would do the same and only do your contracted hours.

RicardoSmith

You have to ask yourself why do you feel guilty for working for free. Would you dig my garden or paint my house for free? Because thats what you are doing. Your collegues aren't getting the benefit of those extra hours. The owner/boss is. You need to be more aware of what you should and shouldn't be doing.

While you don't need to make a fuss, you can quietly stand your ground. No one respects a doormat. Be smart about and do it quietly. The reason this has occured is through poor planning and managment. With a good manager this simply wouldn't happen.

A good way to deal with this kinka of stuff is to be late back from holidays or days off. They can't prove you are doing it deliberately, but it makes your point. Missed my flight is my favorite excuse, or need to deal with personal issues. Make it vague enough so they'd be too embrassed to ask.

In one job I was in we used to be always held back for an hour by the manager. Who claimed that under 2 hours wasn't real overtime. So I said I had a class after work that I had to attend, but could make up 5 hours on a sat or sun, if the work needed to be done. But I would have to get a taxi to and from work and would have to get time or overtime back for it. Since the manager hated not supervising us, this wasn't very attractive, so they stopped asking us to do it.

Its a sign of a bad manager. Nothing else.

dancin

This company aren't very good, unless you are planning in staying with them beyond the end of the summer holidays, you shouldn't feel much loyalty towards them, and so should only do your 7 hours a day and then go home.

You have a contract which lays out the working conditions : 7 hour day, no paid overtime, no time in lieu, but can carry up to 10 hours into next month. They are sticking to the contract by restricting you to carrying only 10 hours into next month, and not paying overtime. SO you should stick to it too.

The management are either really bad (letting too many people go on holiday at the same time, and relying on the newly hired summer help), or they don't care about the workers.

How long have you been there? And they are already putting you on the phones full time.

Either way, unless you are making this your career, you should just do your 7 hours a day and then get out of there in the evening. You think it's hard on your co-workers, as they've helped you out. Sure you should help them out, it's being polite and friendly (as they were to you).

Take a look around though, you'll probably find that the older people (most likely married with kids) are going home on time, and the younger people stay later - at least that's the case in any company I've ever worked in.
Arguably the older people should stay longer, because they are probably being paid more, are usually more experienced and may have been with the company longer, but they tend to leave on time. They probably have places to go and people to see, or kids to put to bed. But they've realised that there are only small returns for working overtime, so they avoid it when they can.

It's unlikely that the company can fire you for working your contract hour's and then going home. So just go home. Nothing's that important that it can't wait until tomorrow morning, and if it is, they are not paying you enough...

parsi

This would seem to be an ideal case for a Union but then again the prevailing Boards ethos is that they are a bad idea ;-)

WhiteWashMan

parsi wrote:

This would seem to be an ideal case for a Union but then again the prevailing Boards ethos is that they are a bad idea ;-)

thats not true in the slightest.

my personal opinion is that i dont like unions, however, i have stated inthe past, that i see a need for them in certain situations, but not in any situations i will ever be in.

my opinion is certainly not the ethos for these boards. i should hope not. there are many prevailing thoughts on these boards that i stronly disagree with. freedom of speech being one of them

i could agree that this is a case for a union, however, i think its more a case of the OP getting his act together and getting HR and his manager to sit down and disucss this issue and work out what is happening to these unpaid free hours he is giving away.
he is not obliged to work them. they are obliged to pay him.
he needs to figure out either how to get them to do that, or leave.

or continue to work for free....

snappieT

Once again, one at a time:

"Doing my basic 7 hours is unfair on my co-workers"

Not true - its the company that is being unfair not you. Only by being firm with the company will you and you're co-workers be treated fairly.
Unless the company is willing to compromise - I would do the same and only do your contracted hours.

But it is unfair on my co-workers. They are full timers and their contract stipulates that if they are short staffed, they have to work... hours that they really don't want to do. 2 people have to do the late each evening, and one person has to do the early. If I stuck to my 7 hours rigidly, one of them would have to work from 8 until 8 every Thursday.

You have to ask yourself why do you feel guilty for working for free.

Because this is the job of my dreams. I'm only 17, the next oldest person on our team is 26. They went out on a limb to hire me, I want to show them I am worth it. It's also my first job, so references are very important.

unless you are planning in staying with them beyond the end of the summer holidays

I am, probably Saturdays and maybe the late on a Thursday, until 8.

How long have you been there? And they are already putting you on the phones full time.

I have now been there for 7 working days, although I did do 3 months (not really on the phones) during last Summer, and a Saturday each week until December (though I was on the phones a total of 3 days there). I've had to pick up the systems for the phones. It's a bank I'm working it, so the branch problems are very different to the HO problems. I'm a tech guy, not a banker. Learning the banking terms was tough enough!

It's unlikely that the company can fire you for working your contract hour's and then going home. So just go home. Nothing's that important that it can't wait until tomorrow morning, and if it is, they are not paying you enough...

They can't fire me, but they can give me my no-reason 1 week notice at any time.

Take a look around though, you'll probably find that the older people (most likely married with kids) are going home on time, and the younger people stay later

Only of of the 8 in the team is married, and she works from home anyway. The rest are either divorced, widowed or single.

This would seem to be an ideal case for a Union but then again the prevailing Boards ethos is that they are a bad idea ;-)

Firstly, there is no breach of contract, how can the Union get involved?
Second, summer temp=nonunion. Damn.



Once again, thanks for the responses, I'm working up a way to tackle this now, but keep them coming!

Supercell

:
You have to ask yourself why do you feel guilty for working for free.

Because this is the job of my dreams. I'm only 17, the next oldest person on our team is 26. They went out on a limb to hire me, I want to show them I am worth it. It's also my first job, so references are very important.

If it really is the job of your dreams and your first job (mine would be pr0n star, astronaut, king, pilot in that order ) then its surely something you would do for free as it gives you great pleasure.

If not, you are being taken advantage of..

evilhomer

snappieT wrote:

The rest are either divorced, widowed or single.

So it seems only people with no one to go home to do this job?

You have to remember that a job is just a job(especially when they want you to work for free!)

your personal life should be just as important as your work life (more so in my opinion)

as for the overtime, you have to make sure they will allow you to carry over more hours to next month(since this is a special case) or you have to just do the 10 hours stipulated in the contract. Talking to HR is a good start, they can't fire you for not working for free! Imagine them going to court and saying "but He wouldn't work for free you honour! thats why we fired him!"

In my experience if you let someone walk all over you they tend to keep doing it, but if they know from the start that you won't be taken advantage of they won't ask you to do it.

How could any company let so many employees go on holidays at the same time and not see this problem coming? thats just very poor resource management

RicardoSmith

...its a bank... then they've no excuse. That said if you are 17, you've not much to complain about. We've all done extra hours in our youth. When you get older and wiser you'll realise theres no point in the long run.

WexCan

If you really love the job (and I mean seriously want to be shackled to it forever) go and tell them that and explain your situation.

I'm working for Dell and have an HR-related dilema on my hands. I took some time off and still haven't done my Leaving - I'm going to HR in the next few weeks, I'm going to tell them that I love the job (I do), the team, the manager, the overall maturity of the workplace compared to some of the sh*tholes I've worked in before. If they tell me that they can sort something for me - possibly give me weekend work during the year or so on so that I can remain a Dell employee etc etc, then I'll know that this is a place I'd like to work long term.

It's sort of a similar situation to yours - if they simply brush me off (which I doubt they will - they're nice people) I'd really have to reconsider if I'd want to return to the company. If they don't sort something out for you, you'd really have to do the same thing. First jobs don't seem to matter to employers - I've worked in four places within the last year, from fast food to my current job - my salary has actually doubled over the year (though I admit that my first job didn't exactly have a stellar salary). And despite my record of job hopping, Dell took me on. And if it's any comfort - most large organisations don't give proper references any more - they simply confirm how long the person was there, and in some cases the reason for leaving etc etc.

But enough of the gloominess, go talk to HR. Most HR people are great, though you do get the odd Catbert amongst them.

Good luck