2012 Olympics go to ...

Sparks

London!
(Which is rather surprising, as I thought for sure Paris was going to be the winner).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/front_page/4655555.stm

It's going to be interesting to see the legal ramifications for the English pistol shooters (the olympic charter is highly specific on this point - any olympic bid country must allow everyone to train equally!)

Rovi

National pride and pious aspirations for ‘sports campuses’ (and leaky swimming pools!) aside, this is as close as any of us here in Ireland are likely to get in our lifetime to a ‘Home Olympics.’
As such, I think we need to make the most of it. I’ve already heard noises about training facilities and accommodation for visiting teams for the lead up and during the 2012 Summer Games.

Amendments to the Firearms Acts permitting, I’d sincerely hope that the various clubs and governing bodies here would see this as a once in a lifetime opportunity to promote the shooting sports, and a superb argument when approaching the various bodies who control the funding that would go a long way to improving and extending shooting facilities and ranges in this country.

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demonloop

Is holding the pistol shooting 'Up Norf' an option?

Away Team

Sparks wrote:

London!
It's going to be interesting to see the legal ramifications for the English pistol shooters (the olympic charter is highly specific on this point - any olympic bid country must allow everyone to train equally!)

Isn't it just!


A number of us are going to apply for permits for .22 handguns stating that very point… and if we are refused we will lodge a complaint with the IOC!

Should be an 'interesting' application… I'm not sure whether I want a Kimber Rimfire Match or a SIG Mosquito… but I'm tending towards the SIG.

Jimbo

chem

demonloop wrote:

Is holding the pistol shooting 'Up Norf' an option?


It could be a sneeky way out for the goverment alright :mad:

Im sure the british reps, would have had to prove to the judges, that all events could be held in the UK, before they said yes. I did hear on BBC radio 4 that different events would be held all over the UK, and not for it to be a London thing only.

mr_angry

I was at the DTL shotgun event in Sydney. Very impressive. Michael Diamond won it, which went down well with the locals.

Sparks

The shooting events are already scheduled to be happening in London demonloop, the IOC wouldn't accept them being held in another city, let alone another island.

TrapperJohn

mr_angry wrote:

I was at the DTL shotgun event in Sydney. Very impressive. Michael Diamond won it, which went down well with the locals.

im sure all the dtl shooters in the icpsa would like to think that dtl is an olympic shooting sport, somewhat keeping with the mystical importance attached to it here on these islands, however it is not and never will be, we will never reach our ful olympic potential here while shotgun shooting is largely confined to sporting and dtl. while i do not shoot any of the olympic shotgun events i must say that the performances of derek burnett and david malone over the years look all the more impressive for it in my opinion.

demonloop

Sparks wrote:

The shooting events are already scheduled to be happening in London demonloop, the IOC wouldn't accept them being held in another city, let alone another island.

I wonder how they can allow for it, with handguns being banned in the mainland. There will have to be an ammndment of some sort to the current legislation, or the Home Secretary can grant temporary licenses to competitors I suppose.

How priviledged will the English guys feel, getting to shoot their pistols in their own country!

Sparks

The thing is, DL, that by winning the bid, the UK government has signed a legally binding contract that requires them to make it possible for all competitors to train equally. So the NSRA could take them to court (as they did to get back the longarm pistols) to have the law changed.

demonloop

So could the NRA (in theory) take them to court to get fullbore pistols off the 'can't have' list?

In other words by getting the 2012 games has the British Govt put themselves in the position that the handgun ban will have to be reversed?

Sparks

I'd say the NSRA, rather than the NRA, since it's the NSRA that's the olympic body in the UK. Or has that switched over to the GBTSF? Either way, the ISSF-recognised body would be the logical choice for a case that revolves around contract law and a contract signed with the IOC. (And contract law has teeth, don't forget).

And they've certainly put themselves in the place where the ban can be very seriously challanged, if it's done right.

Away Team

Well, yes the Government HAS got itself in a jam, but…………

As usual our 'wonderful' shooting organizations, (I often wonder if the NRA is pro shooting! ), are doing and saying nothing…'sounds like the 'dignified silence' again!

I've already asked for a pistol permit quoting the IOC charter, as have a number of others, so far no response. If they say 'no' then it's off to the IOC I go.

I suspect the Government is relying on the few contesting them running out of money to challenge them seriously without any backing from the shooting organisations.


Jimbo

Sparks

Entirely possible Jimbo, especially given the NSRA's financial position at the moment. But this really is the best opportunity you're going to see in the foreseeable future to get pistols back in the UK, even if you have to camelnose it by first getting the .22 stuff, and then the fullbores off the back of that.

Away Team

'Financial positions' I can live with, but absolutely zero comment from the NSRA and NRA does make me wonder.

I have had a fairly harsh argument with an NRA official who feels the 'precipitate action' by people who want handguns back could 'damage the sport'. I took that to mean 'we like prone rifle shooting with 'proper' rifles being the centre of attention'.

It is a fact that many in the NRA were very happy to see handguns banned, and as the NRA is the 'senior' shooting organization, the only one the Government actually talks too, having them basically cold shoulder us does not help.

However, if the 'independent' efforts get a result I am sure they will both magically step up to the plate!

Jimbo

Sparks

I have had a fairly harsh argument with an NRA official who feels the 'precipitate action' by people who want handguns back could 'damage the sport'. I took that to mean 'we like prone rifle shooting with 'proper' rifles being the centre of attention'.

I can see where he's coming from (having thought so myself about over here on more than one occasion), but I think he's wildly overreacting at this stage. "Precipitate action" before the post-dunblane ban might have done more harm than good, depending on the specifics of the action involved; but at this stage, bridges are beyond burnt, and a test case in the courts under contract law does appear to be one of the only resorts left open to the NSRA. I still think the NRA isn't the appropriate body though, purely because the NSRA is the olympic body and the suit would be on the basis of the olympic contract.

Away Team

There is no mention even of the Olympics on the NSRA site…

This does not inspire confidence! However, I will write to them again and ask them what they are doing with regards to teh IOC Contract.

Jimbo

Sparks

The NSRA website is somewhat infamous for updates Jimbo
But yes, good idea to write to them on this. If people don't tell head office how they think on an issue, head office has no idea how those people want to be represented, after all.

Rovi

<ressurect thread>

Doesn't look great for using the Olympics as a lever to change UK handgun laws -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/olympics_2012/4162498.stm

Shooters seek handgun law change
By Andrew Fraser
BBC Sport

The government has been urged to relax gun laws which make it illegal for Britain's top pistol shooters to train in England, Scotland and Wales.

Home Secretary Charles Clarke has given special permission for pistol events to be staged at the London 2012 Olympics.

But British team members face having to do all their 2012 preparations abroad.

"It would be fantastic if they were given the ability to compete on a level playing field," said British shooting's performance chief John Leighton-Dyson.

"I would like to think reasonable people will be able to have reasonable discussions and come to reasonable conclusions about this."

Laws banning most types of handguns were introduced after gun enthusiast Thomas Hamilton killed 16 schoolchildren and their teacher at Dunblane Primary School in March 1996.

As a result, British shooters who compete in the rapid fire, 50m pistol men and 25m pistol women Olympic events can only train in Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands or Isle of Man.

Team members currently spend about 20 to 30 days a year training in Switzerland, and receive no funding because their events are illegal in the UK.

The Home Office agreed to relax the law so the three events can be staged in 2012, as it did for the 2002 Commonwealth Games events, although stringent security measures will still be required.

But the government's current stance is that there will be no further concessions for training in the build-up to the Games.

Japan, which has similar gun laws to Britain, gives its elite pistol shooters a special exemption.

And Leighton-Dyson is keen to set up talks with the government, the British Olympic Association and London's organising committee in an attempt to broker a similar compromise.

"It is very difficult for us to get young people to come into a sport they can't practise domestically," he told BBC Sport.

"The British team in 2012 will be the biggest we can possibly put out because we are playing at home.

"We must be allowed to train and prepare on the same level as other athletes if we are to have a reasonable chance of competing effectively."

The International Olympic Committee has received letters from various parties since London won hosting rights for 2012 asking it to push for changes in Britain's gun laws.

But IOC spokeswoman Giselle Davies said: "We are totally comfortable with what has been put in place for Games time."

A Home Office spokesperson said the laws had been voted in by an "overwhelming majority" of MPs.

"The banning of handguns wasn't a matter of eroding personal freedoms, it was a matter of ensuring that what had been shown to be a terrible, if statistically small, risk was removed," she said.

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Sparks

Early days yet Rovi.