eircom SEC filing

bealtine

Well holy moley

The truth always hurts:

http://investorrelations.eircom.net/news/rns_49.htm

Form 20-F Print version

iano

bealtine wrote:

Well holy moley

The truth always hurts:

http://investorrelations.eircom.net/news/rns_49.htm

Form 20-F Print version

Its a return of over 400 pages. Wonderful. Have you a point to make?

dahamsta

Guess who didn't get laid last night.

viking

This SEC filing is always a fantastic read. Eircom cannot lie to the SEC or else it 's directors will being doing some 'bird'.

Seems as if ADSL is not commercially successful in Ireland:

ADSL and bitstream turnover increased significantly in the financial year ended 31 March 2005 and in the financial year ended 31 March 2004, as a result of increased customer demand following new special promotions introduced. By 31 March 2005, the number of ADSL and bitstream lines had increased to approximately 128,000 lines up from 39,000, in the financial year ended 31 March 2004. It should be noted, however, that since we write-off the cost of modems, connection costs and all the marketing costs of this business line as incurred, ADSL and bitstream made a very marginal contribution after direct costs. On a fully costed basis, after depreciation of direct assets such as line cards, the ADSL and bitstream business activity lost some €45 million in the last twelve months, a similar amount to the losses of the previous year.

:eek:

Capt'n Midnight

viking wrote:

This SEC filing is always a fantastic read. Eircom cannot lie to the SEC or else it 's directors will being doing some 'bird'.

Seems as if ADSL is not commercially successful in Ireland:
:eek:

Further down on Page the 128,000 becomes

As of 31 March 2005, we had approximately
1.5 million active PSTN lines, approximately 0.4 million ISDN channels and approximately 97,000
ADSL lines used by our retail customers.

damien

That's 97,000 retail customers compared to 128,000 bitstream connections I guess?

Sponge Bob

128000 total of which 97000 are direct and 31000 are wholesale.

I see that they have not provisioned any money for Deaf Biddies or included 1000's of Deaf Biddies in their Forward Looking Risk statement .

So they DID lie to the SEC after all

bealtine

viking wrote:

On a fully costed basis, after depreciation of direct assets such as line cards, the ADSL and bitstream business activity lost some €45 million in the last twelve months, a similar amount to the losses of the previous year.


:eek:

What a strange coincidence that the losses should almost equal the rental income from those 97000 customers : €38470200 and then add in the 31000 bitstream customers (and thats just the lowest rental).
Where did all the income go?

DonegalMan

From Page 56

As of 31 March 2005, we had 240 sites equipped with ADSL nodes, covering approximately 1.52 million working paths. Approximately 77% of paths (1.17 million) connected to these nodes would be capable of carrying ADSL at speeds from 1Mb to 4Mb. The total current capacity of our network is 2.29 million PSTN channels. The access network consists of approximately 3.7 million cable pairs.

If I'm reading this correctly, 1.52/2.29 = 66% of lines connected to Broadband enable exchanges and a 23% failure rate on those lines.

If my interpretation is right then they may not tell lies to SEC but they do to the media, David McRedmond on MorningIreland last September:

The rate is eight out of ten people, where broadband is available, can get it automatically. That two out of ten people cannot get it is a limit to the technology ....

... we say we’ll get the eight out of ten up to nine out of ten and that will be by the way the exact same as in Northern Ireland

Sponge Bob

Absolutely not 8 out of 10, less than half of all households in Ireland could get ADSL from Eircom today the 01 / 07 / 2005 .

bealtine

Sponge Bob wrote:

Absolutely not 8 out of 10, less than half of all households in Ireland could get ADSL from Eircom today the 01 / 07 / 2005 .

Didn't some eircom spokesman assure us that there was 80% coverage?
I wonder where this incredible 80% figure came from?

Amazing...

Blaster99

McRedmond said 8 out 10 on enabled exchanges, which is what effectively the SEC filing says too. Nationwide ADSL coverage was 51% using those figures.

DonegalMan

Blaster99 wrote:

McRedmond said 8 out 10 on enabled exchanges, which is what effectively the SEC filing says too.

But Redmond was speaking last September and he said things were improving, they would get to 90%.

Nine months later, it's slightly less than the figure he quoted then

DonegalMan

bealtine wrote:

Didn't some eircom spokesman assure us that there was 80% coverage?
I wonder where this incredible 80% figure came from?

Amazing...

One of the great unanswered questions.

eircomtribunal

DonegalMan wrote:

One of the great unanswered questions.

Eircom's 80% coverage claim is a lie.

1.52 million of Eircom's 2 million access channels (1.6 PTSN and .4 million ISDN access paths – not 2.29 million as you assumed) originate from bb enabled exchanges:
76% of working lines originate from enabled exchanges (that is not the figure for broadband coverage of lines, but that is the figure which Eircom falsely claims, conveniently rounded to 80%, as its dsl coverage figure, and which is aped by ComReg wherever they open their mouth in this regard to try to save there asses).
According to the SEC filing, of these 1.52 million lines 77% are capable of carrying broadband: .76x.77=58.5%
58.5% is the figure of dsl availability as a percentage of lines (that is how the line coverage figure is defined and measured by the OECD).

End-user dsl availability is again lower, as many multi path using customers (ie businesses) live in bb enabled areas and use up a bigger part of the 58.5% of bb lines then the single path using customers (ie the normal 1 telephone line household).

P.

bealtine

Blaster99 wrote:

McRedmond said 8 out 10 on enabled exchanges, which is what effectively the SEC filing says too. Nationwide ADSL coverage was 51% using those figures.

Did he? I could have sworn he said "80% coverage" but there you go.
It's 77% coverage at best and when you factor in the number of consumers
that are affected that's approx. 50000 or so ppl (give or take a few 1000)
That's equivalent to half the population of some of our larger provincial towns.

Anyway, Comreg say we have 80% DSL coverage, so obviously that's exactly
the same mistake repeated verbatim and there's no mention or qualification of
the figures to be only those of DSL enabled exchanges.
Using the correct figures that puts us on a par with our cousins in the Czech
republic and above the Slovak Republic. So we are 2nd last these days...

DonegalMan

eircomtribunal wrote:

76% of working lines originate from enabled exchanges

Thanks for clarifying that. I knew they were twisting figures ... just wasn't sure which ones they were twisting.

Agree totally with your 58.5%, I've been telling people all along that it's less than 60%.

Blaster99

bealtine wrote:

Did he? I could have sworn he said "80% coverage" but there you go.

I was using the quote from further up in the thread where McRedmond was quoted as saying "The rate is eight out of ten people, where broadband is available, can get it automatically." I don't know other than that.

I don't know where you guys get 58% coverage from. All you have to do is take the number of working enabled lines (1.17m) and divide by total number of lines (2.29m). And you get 51%.

Sponge Bob

One does not DSL enable a channel . One DSL enables a path .

One Tests a Path not a channel for suitability to carry ADSL

Path = Line

ISDN line = 1 Path and = 2 channels

ASDL FULLY ENABLED LINE = 1 Path and 2 Channels too 1 x data and 1 x voice

Blaster99

So the assumption is that there are 2.00m paths? Where did that figure come from?

eircomtribunal

Blaster99 wrote:

So the assumption is that there are 2.00m paths? Where did that figure come from?

That came from falsely counting the ISDN channels as paths – thanks
for for the clarification Sponge Bob.

We have to recalculate the SEC figures:

1.6 million PTSN paths + 0.2 million ISDN paths
(This assumes that two ISDN channels count as one path and it also assumes that this is the correct calculation for the multiple channel ISDN connections, ie a 16 channel ISDN line would count as 8 paths.
From the SEC: We provide access through PSTN, ISDN and ADSL lines. Each PSTN telephone line provides a
single access channel and is connected to our fixed-line network through our local digital exchanges.
Each ISDN line provides up to 30 channels over a single physical connection. We offer two levels of
ISDN service: basic rate access, which is provided over our copper access loop, consists of two access
channels and is mainly used by residential customers and small businesses; and primary full or
fractional rate access, which is provided over a fibre or radio connection, consists of between 16 and 30
access channels and is primarily used by larger businesses. As of 31 March 2005, we had approximately
1.5 million active PSTN lines, approximately 0.4 million ISDN channels and approximately 97,000
ADSL lines used by our retail customers.

Eircom state they have 1.52 million paths originating from dsl enabled exchanges:
1.52 million out of 1.8 million paths = 84.4% (but that is not dsl line coverage)
Eircom state that out of these 1.52 million lines 1.17 million lines (or 77%) are capable of carrying dsl.
This gives us a figure of 65% for Eircom's current dsl line coverage; which is slightly more than the 58.5% previously arrived at.

P.

Sponge Bob

There aren't 2m paths

Page 33 of 411

http://investorrelations.eircom.net/pdf/eircom_20f_2005.pdf

1.49 Million PSTN Lines (one channel)
0.13 Million DSL (they were PSTN) (was one channel now two ..128k DSL lines )

thats 1.52 Million Paths (Lines)

and then Eircom confused the SEC by switching to channels

0.36k ISDN Channels , if they were all Basic ISDN that would be max 0.18 Paths but PRI lines with up to 30 channels are chucked in there too.

1.52M + 0.18M = 1.7 Million Paths (LINES) at the absolute most .

Eircom then counted wholesale ISDN channels and pstn lines over which they have no control but they can run DSL tests on them . They arrived at a figure in that of 120,000 .....lines they suddenly say here but it could be channels and lines mixed up for effect . Either way the table on page 33 is supposed to deliberately confuse the SEC and Eircoms investors as much as it has confused you Blaster99

I would assume that the number of paths , paths = lines , is about 1.8 Million between Retail Eircom Paths and Wholesale Eircom Paths but its not up to me to write an accurate SEC report for Eircom is it . I must invoice the fat One for my input

eircomtribunal

Sponge Bob wrote:

There aren't 2m paths
0.36k ISDN Channels , if they were all Basic ISDN that would be max 0.18 Paths but PRI lines with up to 30 channels are chucked in there too.

As far as I am aware Eircom delivers Primary Rate ISDN with 30 channels simply over 15 copper pairs, and it would thus be correct to assume 15 access paths for those 30 channels. Or in other words, we can simply divide the number of ISDN access channel into half the access paths.

P

Sponge Bob

Oh god no, 2 pairs max but there arent a huge number of PRI lines in Ireland and most are fractional (only 16 out of 30 channels enabled and billed for)

bealtine

eircomtribunal wrote:

1.6 million PTSN paths + 0.2 million ISDN paths

According to Comreg,as of Q1 2005, we have a touch
over 2million "Direct and Indirect narrowband Access Paths".

Direct = 1.628299
Indirect = 404284
Total Paths = 2032583

So as a guesstimate we have 1628299 + 202142 = 1830441
So 1.8 million is a fair give or take a bit figure IMHO.

Blaster99

Has anyone per chance done a tally of the schools broadband rollout to get the percentage of satellite bb being used? That's a fairly good indication of real availability of broadband in Ireland I would have thought.

Sponge Bob

I'd say some 40% will be VSAT , Smart and Digiweb will make extensive use of VSAT on their contracts . IBB (maybe) , Last Mile and HS data will use Wireless. BT will use DSL .

Digiweb - 1,655 schools
Smart Telecom - 1,033 schools
Irish Broadband - 588 schools
BT (formerly ESAT BT) - 341 schools
Last Mile Wireless- 214 schools
HS Data (Wireless provider) - 94 schools

http://www.ncte.ie/Broadband/CurrentStatus/

and

http://www.ncte.ie/Broadband/FAQs/#Q13

zuma

Would it be possible, given the latency of satellites, to setup web cam conferences to other schools???

Urban Weigl

zuma wrote:

Would it be possible, given the latency of satellites, to setup web cam conferences to other schools???

I have tried it, and would not recommend it unless you are feeling suicidal. Basically, it works, but barely. Even basic VoIP has major issues due to the latency, and don't forget that the upstream speed is usually very limited as well. Lastly, since data is sent in bursts, this also causes interactive protocols to suffer.

Short answer: No.