The old and Best Trek is Back is This Tuesday's Episode/In a Mirror, Darkly

del.hse

To all star trek fanatics, this Tuesday's episode on sky one at 9 o'Clock is the first of a two parter, called in a mirror,Darkly, and then mirror,Darkly II
where Aracher will be seen wearing the old uniform that kirk..did...

should be good...
in a mirror,Darkly II

niall06/2005

yeah, I'm looking forward to Tuesday's episode, hope it's as good as the US review's SAY...

niall06/2005

I saw it tonight, it was the 700th episode in the saga, and it was great, really great.
I loved seeing a different side to the crew and the way the history had evolved differently.
showing a the earth and its people as a war driven race type.
cant wait to see part two next Tuesday.

jolene blalock

Gone West

yep this is a very decent episode !

enterprise

Very good. Can't wait until part two.

toiletduck

yeah, really enjoyed it. i loved the alternate first contact!

qwertz

If the whole series would have been like yesterdays episode then we would have been able to look forward to another couple of seasons. Hopefully they will keep this level till the end.

CiDeRmAn

It only makes one even more frustrated as to why they were not making this standard of stuff with some degree of consistency over the last few years. I mean just watched a repeat of the Visitor the other day from DS9 and couldn't believe that Enterprise in 4 years on the air never managed this level of depth, they really shot themselves in the foot this time. But I guess we can thank ourselves lucky that its ending on a high with the best of the show being kept for the final series.

Here's to the future of Trek, whatever form it takes.

Stark

qwertz wrote:

Hopefully they will keep this level till the end.

Well the next episode "Bound" is pretty poor. The two eps after that - "Demons" and "Terra Prime" are pretty good. Then the finale is awful, terrible, attrocious etc.

bizmark

Bound was the episode before in a mirror darkly (1) the next episode is in a mirror darkly 2

bazz26

I heard that Riker and Troy are supposed to appear in the final episode. Is this true?

bizmark

bazz26 wrote:

I heard that Riker and Troy are supposed to appear in the final episode. Is this true?

Yes and its god awful final few seconds are nice though

Stabshauptmann

Those were possibly the two best episodes of trek ever. You knew kinda what *had* to happen but God Almighty that was class

bizmark

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Those were possibly the two best episodes of trek ever. You knew kinda what *had* to happen but God Almighty that was class

That’s going a bit far tbh.Yesterdays enterprise , Year old hell 1,2 , Way of the warrior 1,2 , In a pale moonlight , The Defector , Best of Both Worlds , Trials and Tribble-ations , For the Uniform , Call to Arms and any number of other Tng/Ds9 episodes are all far better and lets not forget the best star trek episode of all time imho which pisses all over anything enterprise could manage Ds9 season 4 The Visitor pure class.

I think people are confusing good for enterprise to good for star trek as a whole. I was guilty of this when i first seen in a mirror darkly 1,2 but then you re-watch it and relies just how truly sh*t the acting was and the illogical stupidity of having races you consider slave's and sub human being part of the crew includeing xo's! on your starships more so when these same race's are rebeling against you. Earth conquering Vulcan makes no sense either they where clearly hundreds of years ahead of us in most way they even had the same bloody warships as the normal universe which a number of times where pointed out as being vastly more powerful/faster than Earths most powerful ship and lastly (i cant be arse going on) earth must of conquered Vulcan pretty quickly and early in starfleets life when earth couldn’t of had many nx class ships makeing it even more stupid it just wouldn’t of happen.

Its pritty crap really 2/10

MrPinK

bizmark wrote:

Earth conquering Vulcan makes no sense either they where clearly hundreds of years ahead of us in most way they even had the same bloody warships as the normal universe which a number of times where pointed out as being vastly more powerful/faster than Earths most powerful ship and lastly (i cant be arse going on) earth must of conquered Vulcan pretty quickly and early in starfleets life when earth couldn’t of had many nx class ships makeing it even more stupid it just wouldn’t of happen.

That part only doesn't make sense if you buy into the theory that the Mirror Earth's history was the exact same up until first contact. Earth might not have suffered WWIII in that universe and been a lot stronger at the time of first contact.

bizmark

MrPinK wrote:

That part only doesn't make sense if you buy into the theory that the Mirror Earth's history was the exact same up until first contact. Earth might not have suffered WWIII in that universe and been a lot stronger at the time of first contact.

Well with Zefram Cochrane dressed in rags in the same old ramshackle missile base as first contact and they being apparently more war like than we are and even fighting the same or very similar wars going from the intro up to present day i cant see ww3 not of happening.

Ironic if they left out the part most fans applauded it would have made more sense.

MrPinK

bizmark wrote:

Well with Zefram Cochrane dressed in rags in the same old ramshackle missile base as first contact and they being apparently more war like than we are and even fighting the same or very similar wars going from the intro up to present day i cant see ww3 not of happening.

The intro really complicates things. It replaces the original moon landing with a shot of the Terran Empire flag being planted on the moon, and this appears before the first warp flight. If all of Earth was under a single militaristic empire from the 1960's (the Nazi's could have one WWII for example), then there probably would't have been another major world war. With all the world's resources available to them, they could have advanced a lot more in terms of weaponry and defence.

bizmark

Ya it appears before the warp flight but using a modern enterprise era space suit maybe the terran empire flew there soon after ww3 and planted the flag as a moral boost for the people /me shrugs i think with Zefram Cochrane being in the same missile base instead of an well equipped lab points towards ww3 happening unless America was just left devastated after which ever country(s) created the terran empire came a knocking assuming it wasn’t America.

_Kaiser_

The irony is that the 60 second teaser and the intro sequence is the most talked about part of the episode

As I said in the other thread on this, I personally believed that things were identical in both universes until First Contact (something also the two Spock's conclude in Shatner's - has he had a face lift in those new ads?? - books). However, Archer's speech on Avenger in part II, where he mentions that the Empire has endured for centuries kinda threw that off

The funny thing is that the characters are still relatively decent (in comparison with "our" universe's counterparts in TOS's Mirror Mirror and the DS9 episodes - eg: Forrest sacrificing himself to give his crew a chance.. would Mirror Kirk have done that? Not a chance! )

This wouldn't really fit in with the idea that they've been butchering each other for centuries at that stage... makes more sense that they've "progressed" to that by TOS.

Plus it explains why their technology isn't more advanced by the time of First Contact, or even in "In a Mirror, Darkly".. capturing the Vulcan ship in First Contact - who remember were totally unprepared - jump started things for the Empire, who would have stripped the ship bare and retrofitted the Terran fleet, just as was planned with the Defiant, as well as providing a rallying cry to go out into space and plunder before they themselves were invaded.

I think that line in part II was a gaffe, and the point of showing us the alternate first contact in the prequel series was to show us how the universes split, and was a result of Cochrane's/Lilly's experiences with the Borg (also alluded to in the episode "Regeneration" remember).

That's my theory anyway...

MrVestek

Yes but there was no Enterprise-E in the Mirror Universe, and I'm assuming Q didn't go to both Picards at the exact same time in both universes and show them the Borg, so I'm guessing the Borg aren't aware of the Terran Empire in the mirror universe so they never showed up. In the mirror universe the whole borg attack resulting in time travel never happened, we went over this before in a previous In A Mirror, Darkly thread (use the search function people.)

Ohh and by the way, I saw this episode before college ended (start of June). You guys are SOOOO behind the times. Besides I'm sure Sky One have cut bits out of it to make room for more ads as they've done in the past anyways. Ohh and in regards to 'To Boldly Go...' which is the last ep, I actually quite enjoyed it... the

Different Enterprises montage at the end is brilliant, real tear jerker... a kind of 'Farewell to Trek For Now' kind of thing.

Boo ya.

Pigman II

bazz26 wrote:

I heard that Riker and Troy are supposed to appear in the final episode. Is this true?

It's a crap ep. Sirtis keeps slipping back into her cockney accent and Frakes looks about 4 stone overweight - even tho the ep is supposed to be set during (I think?) TNG season 7. The whole ep is wrong! It's as tho TNG hijacked Ents farewell show.

_Kaiser_

Achilles wrote:

Yes but there was no Enterprise-E in the Mirror Universe, and I'm assuming Q didn't go to both Picards at the exact same time in both universes and show them the Borg, so I'm guessing the Borg aren't aware of the Terran Empire in the mirror universe so they never showed up. In the mirror universe the whole borg attack resulting in time travel never happened, we went over this before in a previous In A Mirror, Darkly thread (use the search function people.)

Ok.. as I see it...

The Borg attack Earth in our universe in the late 24th century (FC) resulting in the Enterprise-E following them back through time and putting everything right ...

But...
Cochrane kills the Vulcan thus creating the Mirror Universe from that point onwards. (The Enterprise-E intervention from our universe has already occured, thus there's no need for a Mirror Enterprise-E. The only stumbling block to this theory is Picard and crew stuck around for this first meeting from what I recall, but this didn't appear in "In a Mirror, Darkly" most likely due to image rights etc - boring real-world reasons )

The Terrans strip the Vulcan ship bare and create a new fleet of starships based on the technology and go out into space to conquer. However by the time of TOS, Vulcans have become equal partners in the Empire as opposed to the slaves Archer considers them to be in his era.

A possible explaination for this is Cochrane's speech (mentioned in Regeneration) where he talks about his experiences with the Borg. The Empire recognizes this as a greater threat, thus the member races unite under a common cause - it's thus also possible those two Borg corpses are still frozen in the (Ant)arctic as the Empire doesn't seem to be too interested in pure scientific research ).

MrVestek

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Ok.. as I see it...

The Borg attack Earth in our universe in the late 24th century (FC) resulting in the Enterprise-E following them back through time and putting everything right ...

But...
Cochrane kills the Vulcan thus creating the Mirror Universe from that point onwards. (The Enterprise-E intervention from our universe has already occured, thus there's no need for a Mirror Enterprise-E. The only stumbling block to this theory is Picard and crew stuck around for this first meeting from what I recall, but this didn't appear in "In a Mirror, Darkly" most likely due to image rights etc - boring real-world reasons )

The Terrans strip the Vulcan ship bare and create a new fleet of starships based on the technology and go out into space to conquer. However by the time of TOS, Vulcans have become equal partners in the Empire as opposed to the slaves Archer considers them to be in his era.

A possible explaination for this is Cochrane's speech (mentioned in Regeneration) where he talks about his experiences with the Borg. The Empire recognizes this as a greater threat, thus the member races unite under a common cause - it's thus also possible those two Borg corpses are still frozen in the (Ant)arctic as the Empire doesn't seem to be too interested in pure scientific research ).

Two flaws in that argument. 1) You just admitted that the Enterprise didn't have to exist in the Mirror Universe and 2) If this were true, the Mirror Universe knows nothing of the Borg seeing as it was the Enterprise that first encountered the Borg, thanks to Q. There are no 'other dimensional' versions of the Q seeing as they spand the whole Multiverse, so I hardly think Q introduced two crews to the Borg at the exact same time.

Case in point, the Borg attack on Earth in the Mirror Universe never happened.
[end geek rant]

_Kaiser_

It's not a flaw though because the Enterprise-E from our universe travels back in time to a point BEFORE the Mirror Universe is created (in my opinion by the act of Cochrane shooting the Vulcan at FC).

(Where'd Doc Brown when you need him ) ie:

- Universes the same until FC

- Enterprise-E intervention

= 2 outcomes:
(a) Cochrane establishes peaceful contact with Vulans (Federation later formed)
(b) Cochrane kills the Vulcan (Terran Empire formed/Mirror Universe created)


Because the universes are the same until that incident, there is no need for a Mirror Enterprise-E

I agree that the Mirror Universe has never encountered the Q though and that they (by the 24th century anyway) haven't had the same Borg incidents that the Federation has.

However, given the fact that the setting for FC is identical regardless of the outcome and the fact that it was this incident which is shown on screen to highlight the differences, I'd argue the intention was to show that the history was one and the same until this critical point.

We'll never really know unless B&B or Manny Coto came out and explained one way or another

MrVestek

You're right man and that's the point I was making in the first place :P Albeit in a probably more inarticulate way :P

CiDeRmAn

Then again, there are so many different configurations of alternate universes, every possible arrangement of every particle in the whole universe in fact that there are almost an infinite no. of "Dark" and "Light" universes, and then every shade inbetween, perhaps a place where the seperation of the Romulans never happened, a place where the Borg became enlighteners rather than conquerors, a Lighter version of the standard trek lore perhaps.

MrVestek

Case in point though, since TOS or well now since ENT, there has always been one particular universe that has been linked to our own for some unknown reason (was explained in Shatner's books as something to do with the Obelisks) but as of yet, it's not canon.