Any Catholics left in Ireland?

axtradub12

Nobody goes to mass anymore. Have we become too secular in our outlook on life in Ireland and is our culture and heritage doomed?

Citizen_Erased

I think one of the priest at my local church might , just might be. Not sure :rolleyes:
Pretty true though , its dying out with the older generation.
Nice though , it will stop the church medeling with politics.
Shouldnt this thread be elsewhere?

Tar.Aldarion

i think it's because i have my own religion.

axtradub12

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

i think it's because i have my own religion.

hmm, what would that be?

chillywilly

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

i think it's because i have my own religion.

Aldarionism?

i could just imagine people practicing the religion of chillywillyism

1huge1

axtradub12 wrote:

Nobody goes to mass anymore. Have we become too secular in our outlook on life in Ireland and is our culture and heritage doomed?

or maybe we just got relaistic
that my opinion and most of the people my age would agree (15)

whats the point in going
wont do you any good

Citizen_Erased

Unless blue rinse and rosary beeds turns you on

Guy:Incognito

Bout time people copped on. The less the church has to do with the country the better.

4Xcut

I do see a large number of young people at mass every week.

Citizen_Erased

You think they want to be there?!?

alleepally

axtradub12 wrote:

Nobody goes to mass anymore. Have we become too secular in our outlook on life in Ireland and is our culture and heritage doomed?

Get some statistics on the actual numbers before making a statement "nobody goes to mass anymore".....

Yes, we have become too secular and we do live in a "me me" culture. Are we doomed? No. Is the life and culture of the nation poorer and less rich than it once was, yes.

Tar.Aldarion

axtradub12 wrote:

hmm, what would that be?

it would be a loose variation on catholic beliefs.i believe some of their beliefs and interpret the rest in my own way.while i would not be considered catholic it is the closest to what i believe.'aldarionism' indeed ^^
all the bible is is interpretations and if you choose to believe everything than god sure likes to kill.i do not believe in the church/pope system much at all.

Ray777

A bit of a flawed question, I think. Does the fact that you don't go to mass automatically mean you're not a Catholic?

The car park outside my local church is always full between 10 and 11 on a Sunday morning, so I'm pretty sure that there is still a reasonably healthy attendance at mass. The trouble is though, most of the cars in the car park are Starlets and Micras, which would suggest that there's an awful lot of grey hair and the sound of boiled sweets clashing off dentures inside the church.

I find it sad really, that the tradition of going to mass is being replaced with the stinking new tradition of going to vile shopping centres, spending obscene amounts of money and generally behaving like over-privileged c*nts.

If it's a choice between an Ireland ruled by the Catholic Church and an Ireland ruled by consumerism and selfishness, I think I'd pick the former.

Tar.Aldarion

chillywilly wrote:

Aldarionism?

i could just imagine people practicing the religion of chillywillyism

we want chilly willy!

alleepally

Stekelly wrote:

Bout time people copped on. The less the church has to do with the country the better.

Expand please with examples from last couple of years where the influence of the church in Ireland has had a blind bit of difference to either you, your peers or anyone else for that matter.

Thanks.

alleepally

Ray777 wrote:

If it's a choice between an Ireland ruled by the Catholic Church and an Ireland ruled by consumerism and selfishness, I think I'd pick the former.

I don't think anyone wants to go back to the fire and brimstone days, but I agree with you in the sentiment of the complete and utter vacuousness of materialism being the new religion in Ireland. It really does make me want to puke.

1huge1

4Xcut wrote:

I do see a large number of young people at mass every week.

probably forced
i wont lie my mother made me go till i was 11 (now 15) and well i hated it never listened or anything like that

i have no time for religion
its about time ireland lost its reputation for being really holy and stuff like that

axtradub12

Ray777 wrote:

A bit of a flawed question, I think. Does the fact that you don't go to mass automatically mean you're not a Catholic?

The car park outside my local church is always full between 10 and 11 on a Sunday morning, so I'm pretty sure that there is still a reasonably healthy attendance at mass. The trouble is though, most of the cars in the car park are Starlets and Micras, which would suggest that there's an awful lot of grey hair and the sound of boiled sweets clashing off dentures inside the church.

I find it sad really, that the tradition of going to mass is being replaced with the stinking new tradition of going to vile shopping centres, spending obscene amounts of money and generally behaving like over-privileged c*nts.

If it's a choice between an Ireland ruled by the Catholic Church and an Ireland ruled by consumerism and selfishness, I think I'd pick the former.

hmmm. Not ruled. Just being a good christian in 2005.

Tar.Aldarion

Ray777 wrote:

A bit of a flawed question, I think. Does the fact that you don't go to mass automatically mean you're not a Catholic?

i think it means you do not believe some of the stupider enforced traditions.mass was not meant to be a suffering more a celebration

alleepally

1huge1 wrote:

i have no time for religion
its about time ireland lost its reputation for being really holy and stuff like that

The only rep Ireland has in the world right now is the rep for Alcohol consumption. Would you be more proud of that, or if we were known as a country of spiritual, giving and loving people?

Ray777

1huge1 wrote:

its about time ireland lost its reputation for being really holy and stuff like that

Why?

What should we replace that reputation with?

axtradub12

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

i think it means you do not believe some of the stupider enforced traditions.mass was not meant to be a suffering more a celebration

Thank you Tar Aldarion :cool:

1huge1

alleepally wrote:

The only rep Ireland has in the world right now is the rep for Alcohol consumption. Would you be more proud of that, or if we were known as a country of spiritual, giving and loving people?

good point but the reputation i usually see is the one were we all go to church and think is church is always right and live very strict lives

axtradub12

1huge1 wrote:

good point but the reputation i usually see is the one were we all go to church and think is church is always right and live very strict lives

Strict?

Citizen_Erased

I think alcohol and fighting/brawling seems to be the kinda stereotype I run into.

Ray777

1huge1 wrote:

good point but the reputation i usually see is the one were we all go to church and think is church is always right and live very strict lives

You know, I'd sooner have that, than the usual sea of vomit and piss on our streets on a Friday, Saturday and Sunday night :cool:

alleepally

Ray777 wrote:

You know, I'd sooner have that, than the usual sea of vomit and piss on our streets on a Friday, Saturday and Sunday night :cool:

Hear, hear. I second that.... not to mention the drink driving, battered wives, violence on the streets,m a&e in turmoil etc etc all due to alcohol.

Tar.Aldarion

then go to mass at those times tbh if thats what you believe

1huge1

axtradub12 wrote:

Strict?

i suppose an example of the strict lives we used to live can be seen in angales ashes (wrong spelling i know)

alleepally

1huge1 wrote:

i suppose an example of the strict lives we used to live can be seen in angales ashes (wrong spelling i know)

The operative word is "used to". Not anymore. THose days are gone.

Pet

The only rep Ireland has in the world right now is the rep for Alcohol consumption. Would you be more proud of that, or if we were known as a country of spiritual, giving and loving people?

But that wasn't what it was like back in the 50's and 60's. It was a theocracy, basically. There was no contraception, no unmarried sex, we had the Magdalen laundries and paedophile priests getting away with child abuse, people still lived in fear of what the neighbours and the parish would think if they made any transgressions. Or that they would be, god forbid, excommunicated. It was a backwards, shameful time, and people are eager to put it all behind them, and I don't blame them.

But I do think we've gone a bit TOO far..

axtradub12

Pet wrote:

But that wasn't what it was like back in the 50's and 60's. It was a theocracy, basically. There was no contraception, no unmarried sex, we had the Magdalen laundries and paedophile priests getting away with child abuse, people still lived in fear of what the neighbours and the parish would think if they made any transgressions. Or that they would be, god forbid, excommunicated. It was a backwards, shameful time, and people are eager to put it all behind them, and I don't blame them.

But I do think we've gone a bit TOO far..

No unmarried Sex? Wrong. There was more of that in 1950s/60s. We started it all.Make Love Not War. And kiddo I was there.

Ray777

I have this theory that in the future, this era will be viewed with the same derision and shame as the 1940s and '50s. People look back on that Ireland as being a 'theocracy'. I think today's Ireland will be viewed as a 'cuntocracy'. There won't always be this amount of money around the place. We'll be brought back down to earth and everything will level off.

I really hope so, anyway

alleepally

Pet wrote:

But that wasn't what it was like back in the 50's and 60's. It was a theocracy, basically. There was no contraception, no unmarried sex, we had the Magdalen laundries and paedophile priests getting away with child abuse, people still lived in fear of what the neighbours and the parish would think if they made any transgressions. Or that they would be, god forbid, excommunicated. It was a backwards, shameful time, and people are eager to put it all behind them, and I don't blame them.

Everyone knows that but there comes a time when these harking back to the bad old days as some sort of reason for why people are anti-catholic, or why people don't go to mass is a nonsense.

OLDYELLAR

I go to mass and proud of it too.

Sarsfield

I agree with Pet that we've gone a bit too far in our rebellion against the old ways. But it's not a surprise really, as the changes have happened very quickly. Basically, modern Ireland is an adolescent nation.

When we've had a bit longer to mature hopefully we'll have settled down and realise that it's OK, and not embarrassing, to have a spiritual side too.

Tar.Aldarion

and how do you pick which spiritual beliefs to have then?

axtradub12

Ray777 wrote:

I have this theory that in the future, this era will be viewed with the same derision and shame as the 1940s and '50s. People look back on that Ireland as being a 'theocracy'. I think today's Ireland will be viewed as a 'cuntocracy'. There won't always be this amount of money around the place. We'll be brought back down to earth and everything will level off.

I really hope so, anyway

And so do I. We have become to much 'Lovers of ourselves, I want,I want and must have it by any costs syndrome.

Flukey

There are still a lot of people going to mass and following religious teachings. As has been said, it is better than what we see on our streets at night and the little respect people have for others, property, the environment and themselves. The were a lot of bad things in the 50s and 60s, but people had a lot more respect for each other. We commonly see threads in here about what some thug or other has done. Wouldn't it be a lot better if people like those had a bit more respect and behave themselves, instead of not giving a damn about anyone or anything?

Pet

Everyone knows that but there comes a time when these harking back to the bad old days as some sort of reason for why people are anti-catholic, or why people don't go to mass is a nonsense.

I know, I don't like Ireland's complete spiritual void either, but it's a necessary part of a cycle. We had our religious days, and we need to rebel before we can come back to the middle ground.
It will happen; it's already happened in America [and they tend to be a good few years ahead of us (economically speaking!)], and the current upsurge in "Christian principles" is good evidence of this. I just hope we don't take it as far as they have.

axtradub12

Many stopped attending Mass or church just because it was cool not to attend their local church. And many others did not attend due to stories they had heard from relations who were in schools,orphanages and institutions of the 1940s/1960s. Not all children that were in these institutions were abused. Many left and done very well for themselves. And not all Christian brothers,priests and nuns abused children in their care. A good many religious people done a great deal for Ireland during that time.

Pet

Many stopped attending Mass or church just because it was cool not to attend their local church.

No, people stopped attending because they didn't want to get up early on a Sunday morning to spend an hour listening to some geriatric shout at them about how they're all going to hell, in some dark, musty building with crap music. You'll find that in the churches that actually involve the younger section of the population in the proceedings - ie the choir, readings, etc, there is a much better family attendance.

And on a wider scale, people don't like the church telling them that contraception and homosexuality and unmarried sex and "lust" are wrong, because it stirs that guilty voice inside them that they've been trying to recover from for years. And the church is never going to change its policy, so it's a catch (not quite a catch 22, but almost).

axtradub12

Pet wrote:

No, people stopped attending because they didn't want to get up early on a Sunday morning to spend an hour listening to some geriatric shout at them about how they're all going to hell, in some dark, musty building with crap music. You'll find that in the churches that actually involve the younger section of the population in the proceedings - ie the choir, readings, etc, there is a much better family attendance.

And on a wider scale, people don't like the church telling them that contraception and homosexuality and unmarried sex and "lust" are wrong, because it stirs that guilty voice inside them that they've been trying to recover from for years. And the church is never going to change its policy, so it's a catch (not quite a catch 22, but almost).

Well get your local group/band to help kill the musty building. Let in some fresh air :cool:

Right_Side

I'm Catholic. Just because I don't believe what the pope et al spouts out of them doesnt mean I dont believe in God.

Watching Live 8 has further confirmed to me that the last pope and the majority of the church have the blood of millions on their hands. Geldof quoted that 50% of Africa's population is under 16. This is an unsustainable dependency ratio. Also millions upon millions have AIDS. Africa will never get out the mess its in until condoms and contraception are used and this wont happen without the ok from the church. The last pope says that condoms prevent life etc what about the millions dying from AIDS, poverty, hunger etc. due to the non-use of condoms.

Also, the state should be secular and not be influenced by the church in any way. Ireland is still sweeping thousands of abortions a year under the carpet to the UK. The morning after pill can't be bought over the counter. 21% VAT on condoms! = second highest teen fertility rate in europe.

Tar.Aldarion

Right_Side wrote:

I'm Catholic. Just because I don't believe what the pope et al spouts out of them doesnt mean I dont believe in God.

if you follow catholic teachings then you have to believe him as he is god's representative on earth :P

Right_Side

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

if you follow catholic teachings then you have to believe him as he is god's representative on earth :P

Did God specifically say this?

airetam_storm

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

if you follow catholic teachings then you have to believe him as he is god's representative on earth :P

Not quite, i'd call myself catholic yet i would see the pope as a man asspiring to be the holiest man he an possible be, not a godsend.

I dont go to church except on Easter crimbo etc. but i really admire those who do go reguraly, i havent got the resolve

Tar.Aldarion

Right_Side wrote:

Did God specifically say this?

that being my point,he did not.i said earlier i am not catholic exactly because you are not catholic if you don't follow your 'divine' leaders :P
so not catholic but close is what i am.i don't believe a lot of the crapola...

axtradub12

Right_Side wrote:

Did God specifically say this?

Who is God in your words?

airetam_storm

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

that being my point,he did not.i said earlier i am not catholic exactly because you are not catholic if you don't follow your 'divine' leaders :P
so not catholic but close is what i am.i don't believe a lot of the crapola...

Yet catholisism is your closest religion therefore you would be considered catholic even tho the pope condemns self-interpretation of the bible

Right_Side

axtradub12 wrote:

Who is God in your words?

Thats the 64 million dollar question. He/She is not somebody who thinks gay people are "evil" or that condoms are for sinners. The person has love and respect for everyone and every thing and people will be judged by their actions in life when the arrive in heaven.