The cost of Grading in Martial Arts!!!

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 12:06pm #1

Hi All,
I was just wondering how much it costs to grade in your style and what happens to the fees, where do they go?

Shouldnt grading be purely on achievement and merit, what if you cant afford to grade does that mean you are stuck on a belt???

columok · 30-06-2005 12:25pm

My fifth degree black belt in Muay Thai/MMA cost me €35,000. It was good value though as I've really noticed the difference in how badass I am since getting it. :rolleyes:

When I did Aikido gradings used to be very cheap. Maybe €15 up to Black belt. AFAIK blackbelt gradings involved certification from Japan so they cost a good bit more (Maybe a few hundred?)

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 12:29pm

columok wrote:

My fifth degree black belt in Muay Thai/MMA cost me €35,000. It was good value though as I've really noticed the difference in how badass I am since getting it. :rolleyes:

When I did Aikido gradings used to be very cheap. Maybe €15 up to Black belt. AFAIK blackbelt gradings involved certification from Japan so they cost a good bit more (Maybe a few hundred?)

I dont know about MMA but there are no belts in Muay Thai only class as in A,B and C class, as for certs they are pieces of paper why hundreds?

dudara · 30-06-2005 12:30pm

The grading itself is E20 for INTA TKD down here in Cork. Considering that you might grade at most twice a year, that's grand by me.

I don't know where it goes, maybe towards hall hire and the rest to club funds. Maybe some goes to the INTA as well.

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 12:32pm

dudara wrote:

The grading itself is E20 for INTA TKD down here in Cork. Considering that you might grade at most twice a year, that's grand by me.

I don't know where it goes, maybe towards hall hire and the rest to club funds. Maybe some goes to the INTA as well.

But surely the session fee pays for halls, insurance, equipment etc not to mention membership fees!!

Tim_Murphy · 30-06-2005 12:36pm

When I was running a TKD club the cost was €20. That was split pretty evenly between the instructor, the examiner and the the associations account.
The last time I did a Dan grading it cost €130, don't know what way that was split but most likely the majority of it went to the examiner and some to the association.

columok · 30-06-2005 12:36pm

I dont know about MMA but there are no belts in Muay Thai only class as in A,B and C class, as for certs they are pieces of paper why hundreds?

There are no belts or grades in MMA. BJJ has belts from white, blue, purple, brown, black. Think its €40 euro a pop as at the moment only Matt Thornton from the US is grading peeps.

Why do people charge for grades? Its a source of revenue. Most people want a blackbelt so they aren't exactly gonna argue with it. I think it can only be justified by being a source of revenue.

I've heard some crazy (up to a grand) prices for some high TKD grades. Dunno how consistent they are.

dudara · 30-06-2005 12:36pm

RedRaven wrote:

But surely the session fee pays for halls, insurance, equipment etc not to mention membership fees!!

I'm not sure I quite get you. Our gradings are generally done at extra times to the regular class times, so I'd assume that they have to pay extra for the hall.

Membership fees to the INTA are paid once a year at the start of the year.

If the grading money is kept in the club and used to buy equipment, hire buses for tournaments, etc then that's fine by me. We've just finished a fund-raiser for our club, and it's hard enough to keep the money coming in for equipment. Insurance and hall-hire eats up most of the regular class fees, from what I understand.

dudara · 30-06-2005 12:38pm

columok wrote:

I've heard some crazy (up to a grand) prices for some high TKD grades. Dunno how consistent they are.

I think the gradings themselves can be relatively cheap, a couple of hundred euro, but it's all the extra classes and seminars and courses that black belts must take which add to the cost.

Tim_Murphy · 30-06-2005 12:39pm

I've heard some crazy (up to a grand) prices for some high TKD grades. Dunno how consistent they are.

In most international TKD groups the cost of grading goes up with each grade. Once you go past 4th Dan it can get very expensive, particularily when you have to bring someone over to do with or travel to them. AFAIK my instructor payed the best part of a grand in all for his 6th dan grading.

Dyr · 30-06-2005 12:40pm

grading and belts are evil. The people who perpetuate them work for satan himself :mad:

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 12:44pm

dudara wrote:

I'm not sure I quite get you. Our gradings are generally done at extra times to the regular class times, so I'd assume that they have to pay extra for the hall.

Membership fees to the INTA are paid once a year at the start of the year.

If the grading money is kept in the club and used to buy equipment, hire buses for tournaments, etc then that's fine by me. We've just finished a fund-raiser for our club, and it's hard enough to keep the money coming in for equipment. Insurance and hall-hire eats up most of the regular class fees, from what I understand.

What I mean is when you pay for a class, every class and an annual membership this surely is good revenue alone for the club, if you run fund raisers even better, so why charge people for gradings, my point is grading should be on merit, and again what if you cant afford to grade, are you then stuck on a belt purely for financial reasons, if so that sucks and I dont believe that it represents the art that you study or the philosophy behind it!!

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 12:45pm

Bambi wrote:

grading and belts are evil. The people who perpetuate them work for satan himself :mad:

Ok good point, what belt does Satan hold the one with the studs on it, Slayer style!!!:D

Baldie · 30-06-2005 12:45pm

In our club the gradings cost €30. There are about 3 gradings a year I think, and as you go up through the grades, the gradings are more spaced out (3 months, 6 months, 9 months, a year etc) which I presume is the same with other clubs.

I'd presume the money from the gradings goes back into the club, but im not 100% sure, I never asked....

Roper · 30-06-2005 12:49pm

I paid 250 for my 2nd degree. :eek:

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 12:50pm

Baldie wrote:

In our club the gradings cost €30. There are about 3 gradings a year I think, and as you go up through the grades, the gradings are more spaced out (3 months, 6 months, 9 months, a year etc) which I presume is the same with other clubs.

I'd presume the money from the gradings goes back into the club, but im not 100% sure, I never asked....

HHMMM........I dont think many people do ask!!

rainbow kirby · 30-06-2005 12:52pm

20 euro each time for colour belt gradings, and it was 130 euro for my black belt grading in TKD.

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 12:53pm

rainbow kirby wrote:

20 euro each time for colour belt gradings, and it was 130 euro for my black belt grading in TKD.

Ouch!!!

dudara · 30-06-2005 1:26pm

RedRaven wrote:

What I mean is when you pay for a class, every class and an annual membership this surely is good revenue alone for the club, if you run fund raisers even better, so why charge people for gradings, my point is grading should be on merit, and again what if you cant afford to grade, are you then stuck on a belt purely for financial reasons, if so that sucks and I dont believe that it represents the art that you study or the philosophy behind it!!

Didn't you read my post? Generally the gradings are held at extra times, so extra costs are incurred. Examiners have to travel and halls have to be hired. And if E20 is going to hold you back, then you might want to rethink. Somehow, I believe that if you choose a MA with a belt system, then you can't complain.

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 1:40pm

dudara wrote:

Didn't you read my post? Generally the gradings are held at extra times, so extra costs are incurred. Examiners have to travel and halls have to be hired. And if E20 is going to hold you back, then you might want to rethink. Somehow, I believe that if you choose a MA with a belt system, then you can't complain.

Most clubs if not all have an agreement with the halls they hire so extra cost yeah right! Sure examiners have to travel so his fees count, but how many grade at a time, also look at the other posts hundreds for a belt? same distance for the examiner but a higher fee for a higher belt, as for 20euros for a belt your missing the point, grades should be on merit and a reward for training hard,Iknow people who are unemployed and 20 euros is a lot to them, as for picking an MA with belt system dont they all except Muay Thai???

Are you a trainer by any chance??:D

dudara · 30-06-2005 1:45pm

RedRaven wrote:

as for 20euros for a belt your missing the point, grades should be on merit and a reward for training hard,Iknow people who are unemployed and 20 euros is a lot to them

Are you a trainer by any chance??:D

the grades are on merit and are a reward for training. Just cause you pay the grading fee doesn't mean you advance.

I am unemployed and E20 is a lot to me, but i'd pay it, because it's for the sport I enjoy.

No, I'm not a trainer. Just a TKD red tag

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 1:48pm

dudara wrote:

the grades are on merit and are a reward for training. Just cause you pay the grading fee doesn't mean you advance.

I am unemployed and E20 is a lot to me, but i'd pay it, because it's for the sport I enjoy.

No, I'm not a trainer. Just a TKD red tag

Another good point every time you grade you pay if you fail you pay if you dont pay you dont grade!!!! Yes grades are on merit and training hard but it seems to be at a price a financial one!!!

And while we are on the subject of tags, when exactly did tips and tags become part of the belt systems, is there any record of these from the past or is this a recent thing....HHHMMM...I wonder????!!

dudara · 30-06-2005 1:54pm

RedRaven wrote:

Another good point every time you grade you pay if you fail you pay if you dont pay you dont grade!!!! Yes grades are on merit and training hard but it seems to be at a price a financial one!!!

Well in fairness, any decent instructor won't let you grade unless you're ready. Thus you don't waste money.

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 1:59pm

dudara wrote:

Well in fairness, any decent instructor won't let you grade unless you're ready. Thus you don't waste money.

But you just said earlier "just because you pay doesnt mean you advance",and now your saying that a good instructor wont let you grade unless your ready, are you suggesting you have a bad instructor???!!!!

Baldie · 30-06-2005 2:02pm

dudara wrote:

Well in fairness, any decent instructor won't let you grade unless you're ready. Thus you don't waste money.

That's the way it goes with us anyway....

dudara · 30-06-2005 2:04pm

You're just contradicting yourself now, and I have an excellent instructor. Mr Paul Delea, stand up and take a bow.

Most instructors don't let people grade unless they're ready. Having said that, there are cowboys who will let people grade, take their money and then fail them or use these intermediate grades that only their art has.

Dyr · 30-06-2005 2:05pm

RedRaven wrote:

Ok good point, what belt does Satan hold the one with the studs on it, Slayer style!!!:D

with six inch rusty nails ala kerry king circa 1986, also has six MILLION gold stripes and LUCIFER embrodered on it. plus its own power supply.

belts are evil. This thread just proves it, i dont even need to post a graph.

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 2:08pm

Bambi wrote:

with six inch rusty nails ala kerry king circa 1986, also has six MILLION gold stripes and LUCIFER embrodered on it. plus its own power supply.

belts are evil. This thread just proves it, i dont even need to post a graph.

Ah how it moves you during a pit at a gig, Slayer, Satan and all things evil, so Bambi are you of the opinion that belts and gradings are bad because of the recent financial element or bad in general??!!!

dudara · 30-06-2005 2:09pm

I'm not a proponent of the belt system, per se. But I do feel obliged to argue on its behalf. Every organisation, armies, police, everything has structure. Therefore, why not a martial art? The belt system is a simple way to roughly identify your level and competance in an art. Visit another class, and your belt will say immediately what level you're at (only roughly though, you still have to talk the talk and walk the walk).

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 2:16pm

dudara wrote:

I'm not a proponent of the belt system, per se. But I do feel obliged to argue on its behalf. Every organisation, armies, police, everything has structure. Therefore, why not a martial art? The belt system is a simple way to roughly identify your level and competance in an art. Visit another class, and your belt will say immediately what level you're at (only roughly though, you still have to talk the talk and walk the walk).

Thats a very weak point to make, when you visit Anthony in Cork you will see nobody has a belt, as for compentancy in an art, in Thai you gain respect for training hard fighting hard and passing on knowledge on the art to others.As for structure you respect your Arjan and everybody in your class. Other classes? Showing you status by belt colour doesnt cut it with me, I would much rather train with someone and find out what level they are at by sparring surely this is walking the walk and F**K talking the talk!!!!

dudara · 30-06-2005 2:21pm

You haven't said anything in that post that we already don't carry out in class. We interact, share knowledge and respect all. Why have you got such a chip on your shoulder concerning belts?

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 2:43pm

dudara wrote:

You haven't said anything in that post that we already don't carry out in class. We interact, share knowledge and respect all. Why have you got such a chip on your shoulder concerning belts?

Your not reading anything then, my point was the financial side of things, you raised the point on I.D. by belts in a class or visiting another class, Why should it matter what level your at in a class and no need to parade around like a peacock with a black belt or what ever, and dont say it doesnt go on because it does!!!

I dont have a chip on my shoulder concerning belts I just disagree with charging people to grade for something they should be honored with for their efforts and hard work!!!

dudara · 30-06-2005 2:47pm

RedRaven wrote:

Your not reading anything then, my point was the financial side of things, you raised the point on I.D. by belts in a class or visiting another class, Why should it matter what level your at in a class and no need to parade around like a peacock with a black belt or what ever, and dont say it doesnt go on because it does!!!

God, but I hate that. Can people please use "your" and "you're" correctly! My pedanticism rises to the top occasionally.

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 2:48pm

dudara wrote:

God, but I hate that. Can people please use "your" and "you're" correctly! My pedanticism rises to the top occasionally.

Or your running out of answers so youre getting picky over grammer!!!!!:D

Dyr · 30-06-2005 2:54pm

RedRaven wrote:

Ah how it moves you during a pit at a gig, Slayer, Satan and all things evil, so Bambi are you of the opinion that belts and gradings are bad because of the recent financial element or bad in general??!!!

belts are just bad, as in spew of satans sack bad. So are mosh pits, my poor knee never recovered from SLF and that was THREE years ago :mad:

Repli · 30-06-2005 2:57pm

Keep it civil and on topic or I will lock this.

dudara · 30-06-2005 2:58pm

RedRaven wrote:

Or your running out of answers so youre getting picky over grammer!!!!!:D

grammar

To be honest, I'm tired and bored. We seem to be arguing the same point betwen ourselves. If you read my posts, I haven't disagreed with any of the fundamentals you've posted. I just don't see any harm in paying the odd bit of money here and there for grading.

briano · 30-06-2005 3:05pm

...gradings are bad because of the recent financial element...

Is it that recent a thing? As far as I know you've always had to pay for gradings in the INTA.

I really don't see the problem with it. If your €20 euro goes to the association or the instructor or whatever, it more than likely will end up being spent on something that the association will benifit from; equipment, insurance, competitions, seminars or whatever.

And even if it is just taken by the instructors to spend down the road in the pub, who cares? (aside from RedRaven) You are paying for someone to come out and grade you. I don't see how that is different to having to pay examination fees in university, or testing fees for certifications or the like. Its a simple financial transaction.

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 3:07pm

dudara wrote:

grammar

To be honest, I'm tired and bored. We seem to be arguing the same point betwen ourselves. If you read my posts, I haven't disagreed with any of the fundamentals you've posted. I just don't see any harm in paying the odd bit of money here and there for grading.

Move along then if you cant stick the heat of a good debate!!!:D

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 3:11pm

briano wrote:

Is it that recent a thing? As far as I know you've always had to pay for gradings in the INTA.

I really don't see the problem with it. If your €20 euro goes to the association or the instructor or whatever, it more than likely will end up being spent on something that the association will benifit from; equipment, insurance, competitions, seminars or whatever.

And even if it is just taken by the instructors to spend down the road in the pub, who cares? (aside from RedRaven) You are paying for someone to come out and grade you. I don't see how that is different to having to pay examination fees in university, or testing fees for certifications or the like. Its a simple financial transaction.

So your saying that its all about the money then and not about gaining a grade because you deserve it for your hard work!!! Your missing the point then also, as for me being the only one who has a problem with it, maybe everyone else doesnt have the balls to question it, and I sure there are those who agree out there!!:D

Are you an instructor???!!!!

loz · 30-06-2005 3:11pm

dudara wrote:

Well in fairness, any decent instructor won't let you grade unless you're ready. Thus you don't waste money.

We have a prelim grading a few weeks before and he lets us know then if were ready or going to waste our time/money - this is mainly for the kids ( well parents ) as the adults shoudl really have the cop on to know themselves !

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 3:17pm

loz wrote:

We have a prelim grading a few weeks before and he lets us know then if were ready or going to waste our time/money - this is mainly for the kids ( well parents ) as the adults shoudl really have the cop on to know themselves !

Fair enough, but the point is ready to grade or not should you have to pay for it, it should be given to you because of your hard work, dont you see??!!!!

dudara · 30-06-2005 3:18pm

RedRaven wrote:

So your saying that its all about the money then and not about gaining a grade because you deserve it for your hard work!!! Your missing the point then also, as for me being the only one who has a problem with it, maybe everyone else doesnt have the balls to question it, and I sure there are those who agree out there!!:D

Are you an instructor???!!!!

You do seem to be the only person with a problem concerning this. None of us mind paying someone for their time and expertise to come grade us.

briano · 30-06-2005 3:21pm

No, Thats exactly not what I'm saying.

I didn't mention anything about skill levels / rewards for hard work. I just said I didn't mind shelling out €20 twice a year (*cough* only once this year

) to grade. And no, I am also a red tag, not an instructor.

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 3:23pm

dudara wrote:

You do seem to be the only person with a problem concerning this. None of us mind paying someone for their time and expertise to come grade us.

Sheep!!!! I can hear you from here!!!! Open your eyes man!!!And Im not the only person out there who has a problem with it!!!!!

dudara · 30-06-2005 3:25pm

Woman!! thank you very much.

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 3:31pm

dudara wrote:

Woman!! thank you very much.

What ever man or woman youre a student of an art form sex doesnt come into it!!!

Bottom line is grade because youve earned it not because you can afford it, when you get a technique right be proud of it and pass it on to others when you can.

P.S. when you go to train with the guys in Cork Muay Thai just bring a T Shirt and shorts no need for a belt after all what is a belt for? Its for holding up you pants!!!!:D

briano · 30-06-2005 3:35pm

Thats it RedRaven, you're right.

You've converted me. You shouldn't have to pay for gradings. The examiner should just come out and give them to you because you've shown up at training.

Actually, while I think about it, why should I have to pay for training either? I work hard, and its not about the money anyway. So, If any instructors are reading this, I don't want to pay for training, but you can bask in the knowledge that I'm working hard.

God. Writing this message is hard. I might just run down to the shop and get a sandwich. I'm not going to pay for it though, because its all about my hunger to succeed in my sandwich gathering, not about the money it costs to get a sandwich.

:rolleyes:

blondie83 · 30-06-2005 3:36pm

RedRaven I get the feeling that you just started up this thread for the sole purpose of attacking people on it who disagree with you

dudara · 30-06-2005 3:37pm

RedRaven wrote:

P.S. when you go to train with the guys in Cork Muay Thai just bring a T Shirt and shorts no need for a belt after all what is a belt for? Its for holding up you pants!!!!:D

Actually, I was thinking of coming training in full armour or perhaps a chicken suit, I hadn't really decided as I'm a woman and so fickle. You never know what to wear until the morning. Thanks for setting me straight.

RedRaven · 30-06-2005 3:41pm

briano wrote:

Thats it RedRaven, you're right.

You've converted me. You shouldn't have to pay for gradings. The examiner should just come out and give them to you because you've shown up at training.

Actually, while I think about it, why should I have to pay for training either? I work hard, and its not about the money anyway. So, If any instructors are reading this, I don't want to pay for training, but you can bask in the knowledge that I'm working hard.

God. Writing this message is hard. I might just run down to the shop and get a sandwich. I'm not going to pay for it though, because its all about my hunger to succeed in my sandwich gathering, not about the money it costs to get a sandwich.

:rolleyes:

Youre missing the point, every club has overheads they are paid for by the clubs with money from the sessions and membership, but some clubs charge for grades on belts into the hundreds as the others who posted have said!!!!

Paying for training yes, paying for membership and insurance yes, grading no!!!!

The cost of Grading in Martial Arts!!!

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