protein question

johnnyc

what is the best protein drink available at the moment is it promax another question any time i take a protein drink i produce a lot of wind(farts) is this normal!

poobum

promax is very overpriced!
as for the wind thing its nvr happened to me! are you gulping it down to quickly or something because that would produce alot of wind

Mr E

Look on the bright side... your farts will have the faint odour of vanilla....
(Mine did!)

logistic

To be honest i wouldnt bother buying promax. Its over priced and protein is protein.

DrIndy

TmB wrote:

Look on the bright side... your farts will have the faint odour of vanilla....
(Mine did!)

Thats gas!

(Excuse the pun.... )

Chucky the tree

check out the supplements section at the top. Easygainer is the man to look out for.

johnnyc

i must be one of a kind then!

joc_06

Optimum Nutrition isnt the world best seller for no reason.
Its great stuff.
I use choc mint flavour mixed with water with creatine and some strawberry metrx in the mornin and 15mins after training. Timing is very important too.
Pm easygainer. i get all mine off him at great prices.

Easygainer

Hey guys, cheers for the complements!

To add to this thread, I think I'll just explain what in my opinion makes a good protein.

First, you need to ask what purpose you want the protein for. Mostly it's for after workouts and to bump up the protein intake in a day. IMO, the superior protein for this purpose is whey.

If however, you are looking to fill in meals, you're better off with MRPs or a casein based protein. (or a weight gainer if so inclined)

Second, what makes a whey protein? There are actually several constituents in whey which determine its biological value (how well it is absorbed and its quality). This also determines the price. The absolute highest quality is whey isolate and hydrosolates. ON has plenty of these. However, some proteins like Syntrax Nectar and Cytosport Muscle Milk are made uniquely of isolates. They also taste gorgeous. However, these therefore cost a staggering 100% more than a regualr whey protein.

Then there are two more "forms" of whey. Concentrate is the cheapest form. This is used to bump up the amount of protein in many products, but don't let that fool you into thinking it is useless. It is actually about 95% as effective as isolate. I also like to vary protein sources so I feel the addition of some concentrate is not too much of a compromise for a greatly reduced price. Finally, we have peptides. Think of these as open door proteins. They attach to other proteins (secondary proteins) to make tem primary proteins (ie usable as a protein source) and are excellent, especially if you take a shake with say a meal consisting of carbs and a regualr protein source (rice and chicken).

ON uses these 4 and is nice tasting. You really have to decide for yourself if you wanna get the 100% top quality protein for E40 upwards per 2lbs tub or if you want something I would say is 95% as effective (therefore just take more) where you get 5lbs for that price...The bodybuilding.com forums (forum.bodybuilding.com) has some interesting discussions in the supplements and product reviews sections. I base my purchases on the opinions of others so it can't hurt to check it out!

johnnyc

easygainer ok you seem to know your stuff i love the gym and have a good diet 5 meals a day i want to have that bodybuilding look could you give me any hints. my programs consists of:

monday:cardio,legs,deadlift 3 sets 8,6,4
tues:shoulder,backs & biceps 3 sets 8,6,4>to increase weight
weds:cardio,legs,deadlift
thurs:tricep,bench,side combo,declined,inclined,etc
frid:cardio,legs,deadlift
sat:shoulder,backs & biceps
sun:free


i am 6ft, 176ibs

ChickenBalls

The first thing I noticed in your schedue is you've only allowing yourself for 1 day rest! You need more as your muslces grow when there resting...
Its also a good idea to change your routine every 6 weeks so your body doesn't get use to the same thing all the time.
I'm not sure on the type of routine you should be doing I'll leave that to easygainer and I think he'll agree with me on this one at least.

johnnyc

keith thks for the comments but i am giving the muscles a rest when i throw in the cardio that would give my shoulders,biceps,chest and triceps a rest?

Mr E

johnny: your program is fine. You're allowing 48 hours for each muscle group to recover, and thats perfect. One day rest a week is perfectly OK.

joc_06

if you want to increase strength then look up bill starr's book only the strongest survive. its awesome. get it on ironmind.com
preaches 3 lifts and 5x5 training. a must read. now if only i can resurrect my copy

flywheel

got my first order from Easygainer recenlty and would also recommend dealing with him, the Optimum Nutrition stuff mixes well and even tastes nice (got the vanilla flavour one)

johnnyc

made a mistake with the cardio: instead of deadlift i actually do squats?

Mr E

Same difference. You're splitting upper body and lower body, so its ok.

Easygainer

I sent him a 7000 character pm with a routine... don't worry guys! I could post it if anyone wants me to? I said blatant overtraining, switch to 4 days training per week... take a week off first though...

Mr E

I'd be interested in reading that, easygainer.......

Easygainer

TmB wrote:

I'd be interested in reading that, easygainer.......

You're completely overtrained man! If you want supps and stuff just ask, but for the moment your main problem is your training.

First off, NEVER do cardio before weights. If you have to do them together, take a 15 minute break after weights then do them. Supplement wise I would take a protein/carb drink and some glutamine or bcaas before the cardio too. If not, take some carbs - a banana, anything to stop you eating muscle. As an aside, on cardio, I presume you want it to keep lean? If so, do NOT go above 65% Intensity (ie 65% MHR - MHR is roughly 220 - your age).

Second, Change to hitting each bodypart only once per week. If, like me, you're addicted to the gym, you should still only do a max of 5 days in a week, but I've always grown well, so I would even cut that to 4 days, which I've seen great progress with. I'll just draw up a routine I used to great effect with the exercises and set and rep schemes - change any of the ancillaries if you don't have the equipment, but LEAVE IN the compounds no matter what. Also, I'm not including warm up sets as that's up to you. I also see you want your chest to come up, so I'll help there, but if you want the bber look it's all about back and legs, esp back though.

Mon: Chest: Flat Bench Press - 4 x 6-8 pyramiding up weight to max on final set. (touch nipple for 1/2 second with bar to make sure you get full ROM)
Incline Dumbell Press (30 degrees) - 3 x 8-12 pyramiding up to max on final set. I twist the dumbells slightly as I raise them (at the top, my knuchles are facing me), see how it works for you.
---> These build thickness and strength.
Flyes (or machine flyes or cable crossovers) - switch this one up for variety - I feel nothing with dbs so I but a bench between a cable crossover and do cable flyes - ouch! - 2 x 10-12 (squeeze for both sets in contracted position)
Superset dips and pushups - just do 2 sets to failure, shouldn't need to add weight. This removes the need for a decline movement as well as conditioning the chest. To emphasise chest over tris, lean chest into movement at bottom.

Tues: Legs: I can't stress how important it is to have good legs - they make you stronger and show that you're a lifter. I'm not putting in crappy movements cos I'm assuming you're slightly ectomorphic.
Squats - (proper technique is bar across you rear delts and about 3 inches below your traps, won't hurt this way. Try not to let knees go in front of toes, to focus on this try to imagine going backwards with your ass on the descent. Go to slightly below parallel, ie your ass should be below your knee level at the bottom - work up to this flexibility with lighter weights if needed) 4 x 12 - 6 (start with 12 rep range and lighter weight, pyramid up to heaviest set with lower reps)
Lunges - no need for leg press, this will condition and build your legs as well as removing any need for cardio. Take 2 dumbells, about the weight you could comfortably curl for 12 reps, and do full depth lunges across the gym floor. You look hardcore, not like an ass doing this! I do 10 -15m forward and back. Do 2 or 3 sets depending on your cardiovascular level. (ie up and back 2 or 3 times - complete each "lap" even if you've to stop or die!)
Lying leg curl (or some hamstring curl) - 3 x 8-12
Leg extensions - 2 x 8-12
Standing calf raises: 4 x 8-12 (do full range of motion squeezing at top with a heavy weight you can handle)
Seated calf raises: 3 x 12-15 (as above) [I have weak calves, if you do too just do these exercises with high reps (ie up to 50 reps for a couple of sets each) after the Thurdsay or Friday Workout]

Easygainer

Wed - off

Thurs: Shoulders, tris: (tris have time to recover from mon's chest workout this way)
Military db or bb press: 4 x 8-10 (pyramid up)
Rear delt raises: Sit on end of bench and crouch like you should if plane is crashing. Using light dumbells arc out arms to feel it across rear of shoulders) 3 x 10 -15
Lateral Raises: Going light and not swinging (with dbs) 3x 8 - 12
Close Grip Bench - 2 x 8-12 (no need for hands to be touching, at least 3" inside normal bench grip at least though)
Cable Pulldowns. Go on knees at cable station and using rope if you can, fix elbows to your side and move the rope down to the bottom - this should squeeze so don't go too heavy... 3 -8-12 superset with db kickbacks.
Dips - Just keep body upright throughout lift to emphasise tris. 2 to failure, superset with overhead db extensions (on a bench with a back rest)

....Friday: Back, bis.
Deadlift - 5x5 (pyramid up to max on 5th set)
Barbell Rows - don't go heavy, just row bar with shoulder width grip with your upperbody at slight angle to ground (ie 30 degrees or so above right angle)3 x 8-12
Pull Ups - 40 reps (do as many sets as you need to achieve this, upping reps or adding weight when needed)
1 arm rows. 2x 8-12 - where you lean on bench and row with 1 arm at a time. Don't go heavy, don't jerk weight. You should squeeze at top and stretch (lat) at bottom, not look like you're starting a lawnmower.
Barbell Curls: 3 x6-8 (no body english, feel it in bis, shoulder width grip)
Incline db curls: Set bench at incline (30 degrees) and curl dumbells (won't be too heavy). 3 x 8-12
21s - do a burnout with a light barbell (you know 7 half range at bottom, 7 half range at top, 7 full range). 1 set should do, 2 if you can.

weekend - off


This will help size, strength etc to come along. I reckon you could almost do with a week off before starting the routine, otherwise you will still be overtrained. Also, sleep at least 8 hrs, try for 10 a night. (Take a week off)

Dunno your diet but I'd switch it to roughly 40/40/20 % protein carb fat (as % of caloric intake not g), but try to take in at least 1g protein per pound bodyweight, preferably 1.5x

Hope this helps!!!

scuba steve

Easygainer, you seem to know alot. Are you like a nutrioust or something?

Mr E

Thanks for that, EG. Looks like a great program.

Just out of curiousity, what weights are you doing those exercises (i.e. what level are you at?). And how far apart are the weights on your pyramids? Is it a minimal spread (like 5kg), or are you going for wider gaps?

Corksham

Hi Easygainer

quick question - why do you say never do weights after cardio?

Cheers

Easygainer

Corksham wrote:

Hi Easygainer

quick question - why do you say never do weights after cardio?

Cheers

Many reasons really. Apart from the obvious, that you will be more tired, there are physiological and hormonal reasons not to. First off, your muscles get energy from the glycogen stored in them and this is depleted when exercising. If you do cardio first, you deplete these stores and therefore breakdown muscle or at least work on a minimal load when doing your weights.

Secondly, cortisol is a hormone released in response to stress. This can mean any stress - bad finances, scary situations or, in this case, heavy intense exercise. This is a catabolic hormone meaning it eats muscle rather than anabolic, like testosterone. Cortisol is released after a while in your workout, normally 45 - 60 mins, depending on the individual. Taking in protein and carbs in response to this is ideal, hence a fast acting whey is good post workout.

This is why, among other reasons, I recommend doing cardio around 20 minutes after weights having had some protein and carbs...

Easygainer

TmB wrote:

Thanks for that, EG. Looks like a great program.

Just out of curiousity, what weights are you doing those exercises (i.e. what level are you at?). And how far apart are the weights on your pyramids? Is it a minimal spread (like 5kg), or are you going for wider gaps?

It really depends on the exercise and how I'm feeling that day. To give you an example, on squats, the increment is normally 10kg between sets, which for me equates to a 40kg difference between my 1st and 5th working set. However, if I'm feeling good, this will be more, if bad I'll taper down at the end.

For an exercise where you invariably use light weights, like lateral raises, pyramids are pretty much useless, but on something in between, like bench presses, I'll normally go up 5kg for working sets.

Right now, I'm dling up to 180kg for 5 (starting 140, 150 etc), same with squat and up to 110 on bench. In a few weeks those should be near my bests of 210,210 and 130 respectively (for 5 reps in the fifth set). I also increase the weights from workout to workout EVERYTIME I am putting on muscle, even if it is only on the last set, hence the sharp rise. Then when dieting the weights slow down and drop a bit! I could post my diet sometime if anyone is interested.

Easygainer

scuba steve wrote:

Easygainer, you seem to know alot. Are you like a nutrioust or something?

Nope, just read up all my stuff from a few sources on the internet, rather than believing a single source... Then I interpret the data and see what works for me. I've made mistakes, not many training wise, but a LOT diet wise. Right now I'd say I know at least twice as much about food as I did this time last year...

Note: I don't rate nutritionists or personal trainers very highly unless they practise what they preach. A fat nutritionist knows nothing in my opinion. Same with some 10 stone personal trainer making people stand on Swiss balls - that has to be the most ineffective and stupid training "innovation" ever, but it looks so "different" that rubes fall for it and assume that it will be better. Put it this way - would you listen to a physio who walked with a hunch or a hairdresser who looks like they shoved a fork in a toaster?

scuba steve

Easygainer,
Im currently recovering from an operation on my back. Before it I did weights etc. I cant do weights or anything strainuas for another 2months but in the last few days my quads/hamstrings and biceps and triceps feel tired and seem to be feeling weak. Would it be worth wile to get protein while Im not doing weights or do you think I should just wait until I can go back to excercising fully again?

Appreciate it,
Steve

Easygainer

scuba steve wrote:

Easygainer,
Im currently recovering from an operation on my back. Before it I did weights etc. I cant do weights or anything strainuas for another 2months but in the last few days my quads/hamstrings and biceps and triceps feel tired and seem to be feeling weak. Would it be worth wile to get protein while Im not doing weights or do you think I should just wait until I can go back to excercising fully again?

Appreciate it,
Steve

To be honest, an injury is an injury and only drugs could stop the muscle from degrading. Off hand I know two drugs that are used post op for this purpose - nandralone (steroid) and growth hormone or IGF-1 (Growth factors). These are extremely potent and the latter is extremely expensive. If these are what is recommended post op for injuries, I doubt that an OTC protein would do a better job. Interestingly though, creatine does have some effect on the muscle and is being used more often, though not as effective.

Personally, I would train the muscle VERY lightly rather than leave them inactive, as inactivity is the worst thing for a recovering muscle. Without a blood flow, no nutrients can get to the muscle to help it recover.... Then, when you feel ready to train with a modicum of intensity again, take a protein...

Farls

Excellent advice there and very good routine

I'm currently in the middle of learning about diet, as you did through the internet, learning how to train is the easy bit, learning to eat right and what supplements to take (i don't take any at the moment) is where things get tough.

I wouldn't mind getting a look at your diet if you have the time to post it up.

Farlz

Easygainer

Farls wrote:

Excellent advice there and very good routine

I'm currently in the middle of learning about diet, as you did through the internet, learning how to train is the easy bit, learning to eat right and what supplements to take (i don't take any at the moment) is where things get tough.

I wouldn't mind getting a look at your diet if you have the time to post it up.

Farlz

The thing about training is I've competed in several sports at a very high level from a young age, so I know about hard training. I used to have a tennis coach in the Leinster squads who would murder us in training so I've carried the intensity to weightlifting. For instance, one exercise was skipping for five minutes with gravel in the heels of your shoes so you had to stay on your toes...

Training can get complicated with things like HST, different types of hypertrophy and most importantly IMO, knowing your body - knowing what's good pain and bad, knowing when to take a rest and knowing when to kick your own ass - on the topic of overtraining I think you've to do it once before you know what it is - always tired, dislike of training, feeling weak, not gaining or losing muscle, lack of motivation, lowered sex drive etc.

joejoem

Easygainer wrote:

I could post my diet sometime if anyone is interested.

I would be really interested easy!

Easygainer

Currently, trying to put on muscle. Here's my diet from yesterday, most days aren't too different: (pro/carb/fat roughly)

Meal 1) 1 scoop whey, 200ml skimmed milk (30/10/5)
2) 1 scoop whey, 200ml skimmed milk (these are both during night) (30/10/5)
3) 6 egg whites (XL eggs), 1 yolk, 100g chicken, 25g low fat cheese (omelette), 4 slices brown bread (proper brown bread) (60/50/15)
4)2 sccops whey (post workout), 10g glucose, banana (45/30/2)
5) 100g Rice (wholegrain), 300g turkey (+sauce - not counted) (65/70/5)
6)Thai Veg (Tesco's) 200g, 300g Turkey (+soy sauce) (65/50/5)
7) 100g Wholewheat Pasta, 3/4lbs lean round steak mince (+sauce) (70/60/15)
8) (depends if after midnight or not) 1 scoop whey, 200ml skimmed milk (30/10/5)

I take 2000mg vitc, 400IU vit e, Glucosamine and chondroitin, Multi vit, snack on nuts and raisins, udo's oil, pure peanut butter and fruit!!! One cheat meal per week...

OFDM

How long do you rest between sets Easygainer?

scuba steve

Thanks easygainer

Easygainer

OFDM wrote:

How long do you rest between sets Easygainer?

Depends again, for squats as much as 3 mins, for most around a minute, but it all depends. If I'm doing supersets and such I'll generally be taking shorter breaks that workout...

Chucky the tree

what are pyramid sets?

poobum

isnt that whn the weight or rest gets bigger the more you do?

joc_06

The one thing id add here is these exercises are bodybuilding routines and not suitable for speed strength power athletes.
too many reps/sets and too many exercises in general.
perfect advice for a bodybuilder though. EasyGainer knows his stuff.

Easygainer

Chucky the tree wrote:

what are pyramid sets?

Increase weight and decrease reps as sets go on, so lets say there are 3 sets it could go 12 x 60, 8 x 80, 6 x 100 - a good blend of reps and weights to hit the muscle and also to lift more on your last sets...

Easygainer

joc_06 wrote:

The one thing id add here is these exercises are bodybuilding routines and not suitable for speed strength power athletes.
too many reps/sets and too many exercises in general.
perfect advice for a bodybuilder though. EasyGainer knows his stuff.

I dunno, you still gain a lot of strength with the order I've put the exercises. Granted you could go all out with a strength routine and have all low reps etc but this will increase size AND strength fairly well. Progressive overload is needed though (ie increase the weights, no matter how small the margin, each workout.

poobum

Easygainer wrote:

Increase weight and decrease reps as sets go on, so lets say there are 3 sets it could go 12 x 60, 8 x 80, 6 x 100 - a good blend of reps and weights to hit the muscle and also to lift more on your last sets...

ooh i was right!!

johnnyc

ok easygainer i haven't a great amount trying to improve i have being at it a year at the start i was worst then a women and prob still am. i am currently benching 60 kg *8 62.5*6 and 65*4 would creatine help me increase my weight or if i went back to protein how many times a day should i take it?

joc_06

Whats your Weight? age? height? Goals?
amout of protein required per day is a result of a lot of factors but in general 1.5gram per pound of BodyWeight.
The best way to get this protein is through chicken, tuna, eggs and food in general. 100gms chicken is approx 30gms of protein
Us e a protein supplemtent to top this amout up not os your main source of protein. I find a shake in the mornin, 15mins after workout and before bed works best for me. If i wake up during the night then i take another one. Muscle synthesis occurs during sleep mostly so its important to have protein in your system before bed.

Re creatine. If i were you then id not touch it until you've made all "natural" gains you can. I dont know your training split or weight etc so its hard to tell but benching 100kg is possible for anyone in less than a yr without creatine as long as they train correctly. If you havent trained that much then you're whats termed and EasyGainer. That means what ever you lift in what ever way should show good gains as long as you're eating well. I get the opinion that you're either not eating enough or not lifting enough or both because a years training should show higher number than that
Once you feel you've hit a plateau and you're figures are high enough then hit the creatine and watch your numbers shoot up again.

johnnyc

ok joc i believe some people develop @ different rates i go to the gym just to improve and try to have that solid luck. i will be benching 80kgs in 2 months. from where i started thats a massive improvement. i believe that it takes small changes to achieve your goal i dont care if it takes 2 to 3 years to get what i want

johnnyc

ok i am 180ibs, 23 years of age my goal is to have that body building look, i would like to bench 120 kgs in a years time? any hints joc

joc_06

ok im not a BB'er but from the bit i know here goes.
What you need to do is pack on some beef. The way to do that is lift accodring to Easygainers sample workout or something similiar and most importantly eat and eat and eat and then eat some more. If you train hard enough/ smart enough you'll pack on the wieght and your numbers will increase bigtime. This is your bulking period.

A BB'ers training routine is built around moderate weight, lots of reps and sets and most impportantly symmetry. You must hit each muscle group evenly. This is the main difference between BBers and power athletes

Once you're happy with your numbers, id reckon approx next april, start your cutting diet so you'll be nice and ripped for the beach next summer.
This is the bulk and cut, all BBers do.

I really dont have time to post a complete specific workout or go through all the variables. You'll have to research that yourself. go to forums.bodybuilding.com and look at the sample workouts. there are 1000's. If you have more q's ask then.

For now if you wanna be a BBer. Train hard, read a lot and eat even more. at least add a 1000 cal's a day to your diet in clean carbs and protein.