Take downs

memphis

Ok, I was at TKD training tonight and we were doing some basic take downs, like sweep techniques and the like. Now while this is not allowed in a competition or that it is (in my opinion) useful in a self defence situation.

So, what I wanna know is which MA focuses more on take down and that? I am told Kenpo is big into take downs (correct me if wrong) but are you also allowed use it in a tournament?

I think I'd like to spend more time learning such techniques, this is the first time, in my whole training of TKD, am a Green Belt, that we actually "zoomed in" on take downs.

Fiona Cronin

I was training at my karate club recently and we did throws aswell. As a brown belt in karate i havnt done throws all that often but i also think they would be usefull in a street fight. Judo is into take-downs and sweeps but im not sure about throws. Hope i helped

john kavanagh

a good competitive judo club or hercules wrestling club in town

I am told Kenpo is big into take downs (correct me if wrong)

ok - you're wrong (and i hold a 2nd degree bb in Kenpo)

Liam_B

Try this

Judo link

It might put a few things straight for you about Judo. I practise a little bit of Judo as well.

TwoKingMick

Take-whats? Can't see the point in those.

columok

I dont think that there is any need to learn takedowns. If youre striking is good enough there is no way anyone can take you down. All it takes is a good strike to the solar plexus and that can resist any take down.

kerinsp

I was doing a little bit of that in my kickboxing class the other night. Wrist locks and throws. I thought it was cool. I hope to learn some more of them.
I dont know if they were aikido moves or not but it was a lot of fun.

dlofnep

We learned the judo chop takedown! This big guy, he must of been at least 5'7" was trying to attack me - I just judo chopped him to the ground.

In all seriousness though, if you want to learn takedowns - as already pointed out, either go to a good judo school or a good wrestling school. Alot of MA's that teach takedowns are useless in a resisting enviroment.

joejoem

dlofnep wrote:

This big guy, he must of been at least 5'7" .

Are you taking the piss?

dudara

WE've occasionally done them as well in TKD training, but I really wouldn't trust my ability to execute one, especially on someone bigger and heavier than me. Like some of the previous posters, I'd be more interested in learning good effective strikes that can incapcitate someone long enough for me to run away

dlofnep

joejoem wrote:

Are you taking the piss?

Not at all.

bandraoi

Judo, Judo, Judo.

Possibly Aikido, but mostly Judo.

vasch_ro

columok wrote:

I dont think that there is any need to learn takedowns. If youre striking is good enough there is no way anyone can take you down. All it takes is a good strike to the solar plexus and that can resist any take down.

explain further please.......

columok

well for someone to take you down they have to be able to get close to you. With proper ma-ai you can avoid this no matter how small the area or no matter how close the fighting starts. If they try to take you down all it takes is a loud kiai and a straight tsuki to the solar plexus and its game over...

Musashi

What if they are already close to you,you let your guard down and the guys suddenly flipped and is at bad breathe range and wanting to rip your head off over some imagined slight or insult? Or did you really say that about his sister?? :eek:

I like some of the simpler ankle sweeps only performed like you want to smash the ankle,as well as head tipping/neck cranking takedowns,preferably if it comes to that with my fingers in his eyes after I've palm heeled the chin off him
I don't mean a palm heel strike from your shoulder like an open handed straight right or cross.It's more like an open hand uppercut done from close range coming up under the guys line of sight and through the guard,driving the head back,disrupting his balance and hopefully following through to a takedown bouncing his head like a basketball,or at least a decent eye rake to cover the elbow strike already inbound on him.
Gotta head to work but I'll post more later.

columok

If you practice proper ma-ai in every day life nobody who could possibly harm you could get within range of you.

dlofnep

bandraoi wrote:

Judo, Judo, Judo.

Possibly Aikido, but mostly Judo.

Aikido - The art of throwing yourself on the ground? I'd go with Judo.

columok

Yeah but Judo is a sport. While it might work in competition, the only technique that works on the street is stuff that would have you battered in an MMA or Sub grappling match. If you train in a "sport" you place limitations on your warrior mindset like "knowing how to throw someone else for real" and "being able to strike". These are the kind of limitations that will get you killed to death on the street or in a battlefield.

Dyr

jayzlads, colms gotten awful bitter, was he left out in the sun or something??

dlofnep

Colum is just fine. He's just entering discussion

vasch_ro

at last columok reveals his true colours !!!!!

Repli

Attack the post, not the poster

vasch_ro

it was meant as jest ..... it could hardly be construed as an attack
warning noted.

Dyr

Repli wrote:

Attack the post, not the poster

methinks we need to get some sarcasm tags for this forum so repli doesnt get unduly upset

Roper

Bambi,

I mock thee!

Roper.


I'll be banned soon...

Naos

TwoKingMick wrote:

Take-whats? Can't see the point in those.

Colom, Twoking, shocked at ye tbh.

Check out PrideFC. Or UFC. Even CroCop can be taken down, and he has best sprawl defense and was the best standup fighter in Pride.

Jiujitsu and Judo are both big on take downs.

Musashi

If you train in a "sport" you place limitations on your warrior mindset

If you have a "Warrior Mindset" that may be enough to get you ass whupped
As I would understand it,the Warrior Mindset means one of combativeness and honour.This is a paradigm (example serving as a model) very common in young men and fostered,even unconciously,by most sports and plenty of other influences like movies. A warrior stands toe to toe and calls his opponnent on their wrong doing.He settles it there and then,man to man, just like John Wayne would expect you to.He "plays fair" as we are taught from early childhood on the play areas and in school.It is also instilled in combat sports like boxing ,TKD,Judo whatever.You fight within an agreed upon set of rules,one on one start when the ref says go,no low blows and break cleanly.
The usual mindset or paradigm of the mugger or someone planning a random assault on your person is more one of the Thug.He does not want a fair and even confrontation,best man win.He wants to win and win handily.Why face you if he can bottle you from behind?Why one on one if he can lure you away from your mates and into a large gang of his scangers.
I know one guy locally used to think it was great fun to stop lone stragglers crossing the Square on the way home from the pub.He'd ask them some inane question like "got the time/a match" whatever.As soon as they were focussed on the question he'd punch or headbutt them and run away.If they were down he'd laugh about it with his mates,if they gave chase he ran into an alley way where his mates were waiting so they could join the fun.
Also, why fight for fun when there's a profit to be made."Rolling the Drunk" is an old custom with good reason.Why tackle a fit and sober person when you can make as much with less risk of resistance tackling an older or drunker one?

The Warrior mindset during training can lead to a person discounting some tactics as being unmanly, we've all heard the accusation of "fighting like a girl" levelled at some one at some time!
In fairness, actually fighting is the end of a series of events usually,like those shows about disasters and why they happened.If any one of a series of events went differently then the crash or whatever would not have happened.Spotting the signs early and moving out of the area is better than seeking out a resolution through force.If being specifically targetes this may not be possible but things like "Happy Slapping" or Mugging are generally looking for a victim,so try not to look like one:)

Happy Days! Have fun lads.

dlofnep

Mear wrote:

Colom, Twoking, shocked at ye tbh.

Check out PrideFC. Or UFC. Even CroCop can be taken down, and he has best sprawl defense and was the best standup fighter in Pride.

Jiujitsu and Judo are both big on take downs.

To be honest, the majority of BJJ schools emphasise on the ground game way more than takedowns.. Which is why you'll see a jiu-jitsu guy incorporate wrestling into his game when he's fighting in NHB or MMA. Also, the takedowns you will learn are mostly emphasised on using the gi.

This also applys for Judo - For someone to transition to MMA effectively from Judo to MMA they have to completely re-think their game. Where they could previously use the belt to pull someone into a sumi-gaeshi, they don't have that liberty in MMA.. The likes of Karo Parisyan transitioned to MMA by altering his game using a standing kimura setup to take someone down with their sumi-gaeshi. Infact, alot of the gi-based takedowns are useless without the gi.

Naos

Dlofnep:
Very true and I agree with you in terms of MMA. I shouldnt have brought PrideFC into it so.
However we are discussing the street, and in the street there are clothes available to get a grip.. So it is very useful.

dlofnep

Even clothes don't completely simulate a gi and belt.. You don't get the same kinda torque with them unless it's really thick fabric.. Mostly it will just rip. But some of the throws will work with normal fabric - I agree,

columok

Twokingmick: The most slamtastic MMA fighter in Ireland.

Me: Sarcastic jizzboid.

Bambi: Hit the nail on the head with his original post.

Naos

/breathes

Cake Fiend

columok wrote:

If you practice proper ma-ai in every day life nobody who could possibly harm you could get within range of you.

Ha, you need more training. If you had properly developed your Ki, you would be completely impenetrable, regardless of your opponent's distance. Also, you could use your (now physically manifesting) kiai to defeat any attacker at your leisure.