Sony attempting to "impound" illegally imported PSP units.

Blub2k4

http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/story/0,3605,1512591,00.html

Interesting article where Sony are demanding that retailers disclose the identities of their customers so that PSP's can be impounded.

Opens up a whole can of worms with regard to free trade and protectionism etc but personally I think the best thing to do would be to tell them where to stick their devices...and the sun dont shine there, crazy stuff.

ambro25

Well, Sony can try, for sure - it's not as if Nintendo didn't try that one beforehand, is it?

All the more so if those retailers can indeed prove conclusively that

They argue that Sony's previous behaviour - including, some claim, the purchase of import PSPs by Sony staff - could be seen as implied approval.

At any rate, I very much doubt a Judge is going to order the release of personal customer data (names and addresses), irrespective of whether Sony wins their injunction against grey importers (to stop resale of imported PSPs) or not, as that would be a flagrant violation of the Data Protection Act.

Moreover, what - exactly - would Sony do once it has that data?

Enjoin the punters from buying Sony products ever again? Well, boo-hoo : these days, there's a ton of electronics manufacturers releasing gear thousands of times better than Sony-branded gear in all sorts of markets (TV, DVD, camcorders, personal audio, etc, etc.)

'Repossess' the imported PSPs ? ("Ooo, no, sorry, don't have it anymore, someone nicked it from me on the bus/plane/train, etc.")

Laughable - if not a fake, of course. Not really enough data in that article to be more conclusive than that, I'm afraid.

RE*AC*TOR

Sony have a wonderful ability to shoot themselves in the foot.


Now where's my mp3 player that doesn't play mp3s?

ambro25

Well, well, well...

quick, set disclaimer on stun!

Illuvatar

If this does pass (not likely) watch, the next time you step out of your house you're going to be lit up by tons of red dots.
This is probably a whole bunch of BS. Maybe to scare some people.

Blub2k4

Gamesindustry.biz wrote:

Sony acknowledges that it's unlikely that it would have any legal avenue to pursue individual consumers even if it actually wished to do so.

They have thought about it obviously.

astec123

take appropriate action against those unlawfully importing PSPs into Europe."

Err.... whats unlawful about it. I didnt know there was a law saying thou shall not import things before they are released here. Bul****e simple as that. Sony can rot in hell for all I care, if they get away with this there should be a boycott of the gear Im sure that competition such as the DS and other makers such as iRiver etc will happily take these extra sony customers.

Winters

I do question the truthfullness of this story tbh.

RobertFoster

astec123 wrote:

Err.... whats unlawful about it. I didnt know there was a law saying thou shall not import things before they are released here. Bul****e simple as that. Sony can rot in hell for all I care, if they get away with this there should be a boycott of the gear Im sure that competition such as the DS and other makers such as iRiver etc will happily take these extra sony customers.

I think they mean mass-importation by import shops etc.

Blub2k4

RobertFoster wrote:

I think they mean mass-importation by import shops etc.

It's protectionist sh**e, if you have the wedge you can buy stuff in a free market economy unless of course said object is illegal in itself, that is not the case here.

ambro25

Erm... under European Statutes (and Statutes of most European Members) Sony has a right to decide when/where they first market a product. So if an importer does it for them without their consent, that is an actionable cause.

However, Sony could be 'forced' to sell into Europe even if they didn't want to, if there is demand in the market which is not satisfied (that measure is a part of EU competition law generally meant to ensure that prices for a product/commodity are not artifically inflated by choking supply) - but someone would have to go and ask the European Commission first to obtain that, and my schedule is a bit heavy at the mo'

All the same, it's either (or all, actually):
1) scare-mongering story from Sony (cynical mode: to try & scare small independent VG traders because Mr EB, Game, Tesco or ASDA think they are losing a September sale each time an import PSP is sold and putting pressure on Sony)
2) ill-thought-out legal advice (there is case law about grey imports from Sega, Nintendo, etc. dating back years , and those guys got it full in the face every time from the EU, and -to compound- they're really not flavour fo the month at the Commission where anti-competitive/oligopolistic-monopolistic market practices are concerned )
3) yet again an own-goal, where 'informed' consumers (you thread readers and I) are concerned, that's making my own purchase of a PSP increasignly remote these days [call me paranoid, but I still think they're going to backdoor-region code in due course, perhaps through a firmware update or whatnot...].

DiscoStu

Dont forge that Tesco lost their case with Levi a few years back under the same law. Then there was CDWOW against IRMA and the BPI, they settled knowing that they were going to loose.

Wertz

They can take my PSP....when they pry it from my cold, dead hands...

Seriously, what a bunch of f*cktards...they've created the market imbalance that's lead to the high demand for the unit in Europe by continuosly putting back the release dates...now they're trying to get the sh*t back in the horse.
What's the problem here? They're selling units regardless of where they're being sold....surely that should be their sole motivating factor as a company? I know it's not that simplistic but it should be...

As for region coding and firmware updates...pffft...the 1.0 firmware flash files for the first jap PSPs are available on the web...I'm sure 1.5 is out there somewhere too....along with all those ripped PSP game ISOs lol

monument

Winters wrote:

I do question the truthfullness of this story tbh.

With the statement referring to any possibility of Sony actually trying to get the PSP back from the end users the Guardian article only says it “could see the consoles impounded”, it does not say Sony plans such, just that they could.

Sony don’t actually refute the claim they want the names and address of the end users.

Syth

This is not a scam, this is a PR stunt.

flogen

Syth wrote:

This is not a scam, this is a PR stunt.

by whom? Microsoft??

Guy:Incognito

Blub2k4 wrote:

It's protectionist sh**e, if you have the wedge you can buy stuff in a free market economy unless of course said object is illegal in itself, that is not the case here.

your avoiding paying the appropriate taxes and duties so Isay the eu would see it as in their best interests to find a solution.

Wertz wrote:

They're selling units regardless of where they're being sold....surely that should be their sole motivating factor as a company? I know it's not that simplistic but it should be...

But they'd still be selling the same amount if they were'nt being exported from asia/america seeign as demand is outstripping supply, if it wasnt, then they would have plenty to sell in europe themselves.

Wertz

Stekelly wrote:

your avoiding paying the appropriate taxes and duties so Isay the eu would see it as in their best interests to find a solution.

I was fully 100% prepared to pay whatever VAT/duty/etc was imposed on importing the unit into this country; in the finish up I didn't have to...man, mnay others did.
Anyway, what has the EU got to do with SCEE's internal policies?
Shouldn't they be worrying about an unratified constitution and the CAP?

Stekelly wrote:

But they'd still be selling the same amount if they were'nt being exported from asia/america seeign as demand is outstripping supply, if it wasnt, then they would have plenty to sell in europe themselves.

I've had this argument before...if they'd launched simultaneously here and in the US then they would have avoided the supply/demand problem they have now...the mass importation that SCEE have their knickers in a twist over, is an artificial drain on the US/Asian markets. Look at the amount of units that went up on eBay after the US release with the obvious intention of shipping to the EU. What would have been the difference in holding back maybe 400,000 of the initial 1 million units available on US laiunch day, and releasing those 400,000 in the EU?
A difference of 5 months in release dates is automatically going to create demand....in my experience, tell people they can't have something and they'll desire it even more. The conspiracy theorist in me is yelling that Sony wanted it like this....regardless of where the unit sells Sony still get €$£...non-availablity in certain markets creates an artificial demand and leads to high volume sales...shareholders like that kind of thing...

sceptre

RobertFoster wrote:

I think they mean mass-importation by import shops etc.

Ah, now Sony would be likely to win that one easily using Levis v Tesco as a precedent. Personal importation is another matter of course but if they're talking mass-importation it's pretty much open and shut should they chose to open it.

monument

Yes, this is SCE UK/Europe going after UK mass-importers. Althought, retailers are named in the pending court case, Sony have also sent letters to ‘individuals and companies’ selling PSPs vie eBay.

Fenster

Yeesh, what is it with Sony?

They have this habit of producing an amazing piece of technology and then burying it with protectionist crap (their "MP3" players, for starters)

sceptre

Fenster wrote:

Yeesh, what is it with Sony?

They have this habit of producing an amazing piece of technology and then burying it with protectionist crap (their "MP3" players, for starters)

They think their way is better (for them if no-one else). And they think the top end of the market will follow. And in the past they've often been right about the latter, sometimes even about the former. File under "trinitron".

This "protectionist crap", regulatory as it is, is obviously different from their usual protectionist crap, techy in nature.

Fenster

Aye, true.

Still, I'm thinking of getting a PSP myself for its hackability factor.

ambro25

The latest on this, courtesy of GamesBiz...

Looking gloomy for Indies

For those uninitiated, the injunction is designed to last only until the Court releases its judgment, not (yet) forever.

As far as I'm concerned, that finally does it with Sony for me: one less PSP1...2...3 etc./PS3...4...5 etc./TV/DVD/Camcorder-this-that-the-other they're going to sell, grey import or official EU one :mad:

Especially when they release in Korea before Europe, FFS!

Illuvatar

I'm still stickin with SONY. They're not going to get away with it so no harm done. And I don't think they'll keep trying either.

ambro25

Illuvatar wrote:

And I don't think they'll keep trying either.

So why start? And what makes you think it's not going to stick? The injunction (and case) is based on trademark infringement: have a quick look at recent case law throughout the EU about this particular facet of law, and you'll notice that an increasing proportion of such decisions favour the TM owner and that the Court orders do stick, particularly where unauthorized importing is concerned (particularly again where this affects the "first to market in EU" right of the TM owner).

Methinks this is the start of the choke on grey imports for all things videogames (new ones, that is... we still have pre-PS1 stuff to fall back on... unless this gives ideas to the current owners of the Colecovision and Intellivision TMs ), and we'll only get to see the full-scale of this eventual decision (if it still favours Sony and the Indies don't appeal) when PS3 / Revolution / XB360 hit these EU shores

CiDeRmAn

I thought that one of the major import stores in London was going to fight the restrictions to the sale of PSPs?
And have not Nintendo been trying the same thing over the years and failed miserably?
I know from experience however that the large console developers use their reps to put pressure on indie stores to stay in line. While working in the business a no. of years ago I asked why import PS1 stuff was not being considered for sale and was told a sony rep who finds a store is not towing the company line on imports could make it harder for that store to get needed levels of big selling games, no fresh supplies of Tekken3 say, or giving the stocks to a competitor instead and leaving a particular shop to wait for resupply.
I guess not much has changes. Bloody corporate Nazis!

Starting to find the PSP boring anyway, only playing Snes and Megadrive stuff on it now via emu, its good to play Chronotrigger on a handheld, my gues is Sony wouldn't like that type of behaviour, better watch out for the black choppers to swoop down and take my consoles, better hide my chipped Xbox while i'm at it!

Gizzard

ambro25 wrote:

The latest on this, courtesy of GamesBiz...

Looking gloomy for Indies

For those uninitiated, the injunction is designed to last only until the Court releases its judgment, not (yet) forever.

As far as I'm concerned, that finally does it with Sony for me: one less PSP1...2...3 etc./PS3...4...5 etc./TV/DVD/Camcorder-this-that-the-other they're going to sell, grey import or official EU one :mad:

Especially when they release in Korea before Europe, FFS!

you have to wonder what Sony are thinking about, with Europe such a major market for computer games, the contempt they treat Euro gamers boggles the mind, and they seem so bare faced about it, theyre quite happy to say yeah Europe wont get PS3 until sometime 2007 all the while MS360 launches world wide later this year.

Its not like they dont have competition here now, mind boggles (ill still buy the PS3 though)

ambro25

Illuvatar wrote:

I'm still stickin with SONY.

Gizzard wrote:

(ill still buy the PS3 though)

Well, don't anybody whinge about late releases, then... Because why should they treat Europe any differently than with the contempt they are already showing, when people will buy their gear regardless? :rolleyes:

sceptre

ambro25 wrote:

So why start? And what makes you think it's not going to stick? The injunction (and case) is based on trademark infringement

Why start? That's easy (you've basically answered your question): trademarks aren't like copyrights. If you don't defend them (in court where possible) you lose them. They've got to at least make the effort. They don't necessarily need to shut down all grey imports but they need the odd day out in court to defend what they own. They may or may not choose to go the whole hog and that's something for which we'll have to wait and see.

ambro25

Whoa cowboy: "you lose them" only inasmuch as they would be misused/misappropriated/misrepresented.

To my knowledge, the grey importers have always represented PSPs as Sony's goods, not theirs, so the mark was (and still is) performing its function (in the legal sense: distinguish between the goods of various concerns in the marketplace).

What Sony have done is not enforce their IP because there was a risk of confusion (which is the usual tennet of TM enforcement, or of an action for passing off if the Mark is not registered) in the marketplace, but leveraged it only to enforce their intended distribution strategy.

They probably could have gone for patent infringement, but too pricey for the exercise.

They probably also could have gone for copyright infringement, but too dicey for the exercise (unlike reg'd IP, you first need to prove existence of copyright before you can enforce it).

They probably also could have gone for design right infringement, but again too dicey (unless they've registered them in EU/UK).

TM was the quick, easy, cheap and most incontroversible way .