Nicky's stupid question of the Day.

NickyOD

Between live and online poker, which are you better at putting a player on a specific hand and why? Do you make better tough folds/calls in live or online play?

Einstein

I reckon i make less, yet perhaps better calls live. (in my whole 2 months of experience )
Prob because i feel i can get a better read in person of how the person plays all night etc. Whereas on-line, if out of the hand, it's too easy to let concentration slide and glance at TV or something.

make sense?

roryc

much easier in a live game in my opinion. You need time online to build up a profile for each player, and discover tells based on betting patterns etc. In a live game you can pick up tells so much faster, and easier (sometimes) because there are so much more things too look out for (attitude, stance etc)

I usually make better calls in live games. In online its all about luck for me. Im not bothered writing notes or trying to discover tells on players I may never play against again. I prefer to spend more time trying to figure out players I play against regularly. Probably why I dont play for high stakes online. The players need to put in a lot of effort to pick up tells online, and will have to keep a record of it, so that if they play against them again, they will have notes on them.

In live games you remember these tells when you SEE the players. No need for any note taking!

Culchie

I agree with the above .... with the following caveat.

Because in an on-line environment, you are generally not being 'watched' by other players as such, then there is an inclination to act more 'habitually'...i.e 3 times BB for Premium pairs, Limps with low pocket pairs etc..... so the tendency to vary your play is reduced ..... so an observant on-line player who is actually watching other players and their habits can reap rewards.

In a live game, you are more conscious of being watched, so if you are cute you mix your game up a wee bit, and so it can be harder to read.

I'm not disagreeing with previous statements, but just throwing in my 2c to say it's not always (or at least it shouldn't be) automatically easier to pick up tells on better players live.

Cianos

It depends on the stakes. I find online players a lot more predictable than offline players at lower stakes.

NickyOD

Culchie wrote:

Because in an on-line environment, you are generally not being 'watched' by other players as such, then there is an inclination to act more 'habitually'...i.e 3 times BB for Premium pairs, Limps with low pocket pairs etc..... so the tendency to vary your play is reduced ..... so an observant on-line player who is actually watching other players and their habits can reap rewards.

This is why I believe I'm a much better online player, although the fact that I've been playing online for bnearly 3 years and don't get the oportunity to play many live tournaments may have something to do with it. :rolleyes: Without a doubt I've made some very bad calls AND folds in live tournaments that I would never have made in an online game. It's amazing how accurate a read you can get online from timing and betting patterns alone. In a live environment people do tend to mix things up a lot more. There are a lot more factors to consider, and a lot more going on at the live table. There is A LOT you need to be paying attention too and it can become much more dificult and tiring than watching the avatars on a computer screen, and easier for you to lose your focus. Poker in many ways is a game of stamina and the player who makes the least mistakes often wins. I think its alot easier to make mistakes in live play than online, but I guess that's just my own experience.

PPP-Pit Boss

I am an inexperienced and quite frankly ****e live player.. This does not however in any way reflect my online success. I find playing live quite intimidating particulary at times when my male counterparts decide to use agression (and I dont just mean betting aggression) against me to gain an advantage. Not that I am dissing it I mean if it works go for it.. I would like to be a better live player but amoungst other things I always tend to feel a little out of my depth and run home to the comfort of my wireless broadband and laptop where i can watch tv, dance around the room and make money all at the same time ;0)

Dave

I know what you mean, I find live play pretty intimidating. I've only played 2 live tournaments, and I tend to be quite nervous and feel less confident at the table, whereas in online play it's the total opposite. I suppose it's just down to experience.

Iago

I think I'm a much better offline player, although I don't get enough opportunity to play offline. I find it hard to justify going and playing in a card club until 2-3 in the morning when I've to be up at 7 for work. Particularly when I can play multiple games online in a shorter period of time and get to bed early.

I'm very good at reading people (although you'd never of guessed it last night, but that's a different story) and find that most of the time online play is "Poker by Numbers" the vast majority of time online I'm playing the odds far more than the table and the players. While you can make good money doing this (I'm not breaking the bank but I get an average-good return) it's not as enjoyable as outplaying someone in a live game.

For me playing live is entertainment, playing online is work...so maybe that distinction is why I prefer and think I'm better offline.

mewso

I prefer live play but I do think with so many bad players online the tells can be very obvious. One move I've seen alot of recently online is the button steal with blinds at the first level. Recipe for disaster if you ask me. There was a bit of it on the poker.ie game last night. I'm thinking here have my 20 chips if you want it so bad.

Culchie

Were you playing that Musician ...what is your name on Stars?

mewso

Was enjoying the anonymity. Thought you knew from the boards tourneys Culchie. I'm Briano. Lost count how many times I've knocked you out,..or is it the other way round.

Culchie

no didn't know.

Haven't played boards tourney in months, and I'd say it was you knocking me out some how ... not last night though.

BTW your comment on my re-raise of Davey with AA ('worthless' I think was the comment) ......I don't have to explain, but........ he had gone all-in previous hand with 10-10, I called thinking he was making a move and he was I suppose, as he was only about 5*BB at that stage, I was large stack so I was comfortable with call QK.
His hand stood up.

Next hand, he raised about 4*BB, 30-40% of his stack or so, I re-raised him (I had AA), thinking he might believe I was 'steaming' from previous hand, and come back over the top. Davey made a good fold, I still made quite a few chips though.

Anyways .... that's the story.


500 posts ....yahoo

califano

Only played one live tournie but i gathered that people play more 'honest' live than online. I guess they dont want to be exposed as the twit that came back over the top with nothing. I didnt see one outrageous re-raise gone wrong or anything risky the whole tournament.
Another thing i noticed was the amount of yawning going on. Some think they are giving off the 'im very relaxed here' impression..."yeah right lads"!!

my observations and definitions of behaviour at live play

Yawning: im not relaxed

whistling: im not relaxed

Stretching and looking relaxed: im not relaxed

leaving the table frequently: im not relaxed and i have attention deficit disorder.

Chatting by telling others about the big hands they let go: I want you to recognise im a good player

ionapaul

I'm probably marginably better offline (I'm alright offline as opposed to mediocre at best online!) as I enjoy it more, pay more attention and think about my play more. Online (unless I am playing for stakes that mean something to me) I find it hard to care - everything time I try to play a €5 or €10 MTT I lose interest and throw it away by making very silly calls or raises.

Anyhow, I got GTA:San Andreas over the weekend and now my PC is dedicated to that alone

ionapaul

Not sure the reason for the yawning, but it ain't fake! I always yawn up a storm in the Fitz, for one its often too warm in there

califano

ionapaul wrote:

Not sure the reason for the yawning, but it ain't fake! I always yawn up a storm in the Fitz, for one its often too warm in there

Fair enough. Its just that when i see people yawn in stress situations i say to myself 'come on how can you yawn at a time like this'.

Another yawning examle and the most classic of all time was an RTE programme along the lines of 'macyntyre investigates'. This Cork fella 19 or 20 years old was exposed for scamming people by mail order. when the reporter started to challenge him when he answered his door in his track suit bottoms he gave off the biggest yawning performance i ever seen. he even started to wipe his eyes like he just woke up. What he was trying to give off was 'im not a bit perturbed by you confronting me because look im yawning'.

Dave

I sometimes yawn when I'm uncomfortable (as in a situation). Never at the poker table though.

califano

Dave wrote:

I sometimes yawn when I'm uncomfortable (as in a situation). Never at the poker table though.

Im not suggesting its a tell or anything. I noticed it mostly between hands. Releasing tension i guess but a sign of uncomfort aswell i'd say.

mewso

Culchie wrote:

no didn't know.

Haven't played boards tourney in months, and I'd say it was you knocking me out some how ... not last night though.

BTW your comment on my re-raise of Davey with AA ('worthless' I think was the comment) ......I don't have to explain, but........ he had gone all-in previous hand with 10-10, I called thinking he was making a move and he was I suppose, as he was only about 5*BB at that stage, I was large stack so I was comfortable with call QK.
His hand stood up.

Next hand, he raised about 4*BB, 30-40% of his stack or so, I re-raised him (I had AA), thinking he might believe I was 'steaming' from previous hand, and come back over the top. Davey made a good fold, I still made quite a few chips though.

Anyways .... that's the story.


500 posts ....yahoo

erm this is the problem with communicating in text. Did you for one moment think I might be jokingly referring to AA as worthless. Because I was and not the play. Tad sensitive there. I had no problem with your move at all.

mewso

leaving the table frequently: Dying for a ciggie.

Culchie

musician wrote:

erm this is the problem with communicating in text. Did you for one moment think I might be jokingly referring to AA as worthless. Because I was and not the play. Tad sensitive there. I had no problem with your move at all.

Not at all sensitive, I did think you were commenting on the play, I didn't pass any comment on it at all last night, but just the way this thread progressed it found it's way onto last nights game, so just thought I'd explain my move (as I thought your comment was to me).


Not a problem.

Hitman Actual

rounders123 wrote:

Im not suggesting its a tell or anything. I noticed it mostly between hands. Releasing tension i guess but a sign of uncomfort aswell i'd say.

Maybe it's just a simple sign of tiredness.

It definately is for me. When I play the Fitz, my day usually is: work all day, head to gym at 4, back to work 'til 8, then down to the Fitz... I will be yawning, but it doesn't mean I'm not tuned in!

The earlier start times in the Fitz actually dont suit me. It's not worth my while going home after work to relax for a couple of hours; the old 9.30 starts were great!

mewso

Culchie wrote:

Not at all sensitive, I did think you were commenting on the play, I didn't pass any comment on it at all last night, but just the way this thread progressed it found it's way onto last nights game, so just thought I'd explain my move (as I thought your comment was to me).Not a problem.

Fair enough. It's a bit worrying. I'm not someone who is offensive to players and I wouldn't like to think of players misunderstanding something I say. I'm tongue and cheek most of the time but it seems like I'm taken seriously. Better be more careful. lol you must have been thinking "sweet revenge" when you knocked me out with the Queens.

mewso

lenny_leonard wrote:

Maybe it's just a simple sign of tiredness.

It definately is for me. When I play the Fitz, my day usually is: work all day, head to gym at 4, back to work 'til 8, then down to the Fitz...

Simple - give up going to the gym. Who needs it

Hitman Actual

musician wrote:

Simple - give up going to the gym. Who needs it

LOL... but it's also a handy way of getting a shower, rather than going down to the Fitz smelling like a Frenchman. (Apologies to any non-smelly Frenchmen).

roryc

lenny_leonard wrote:

LOL... but it's also a handy way of getting a shower, rather than going down to the Fitz smelling like a Frenchman. (Apologies to any non-smelly Frenchmen).

Is there any?

Culchie

musician wrote:

Fair enough. It's a bit worrying. I'm not someone who is offensive to players and I wouldn't like to think of players misunderstanding something I say. I'm tongue and cheek most of the time but it seems like I'm taken seriously. Better be more careful. lol you must have been thinking "sweet revenge" when you knocked me out with the Queens.

Listen, I misjudged the comment, so it's finished.

Regarding Queens, I was thinking justice, but not because of last night, I got my stack badly damaged in the merrion on Monday when going very sweetly, when my QQ got took out by 55 ...so the ladies held up nicely this time.

califano

musician wrote:

Simple - give up going to the gym. Who needs it

Exactly
I mean youre only really working out to get through the 'work out' right

Davey Devil

rounders123 wrote:

my observations and definitions of behaviour at live play

Yawning: im not relaxed

whistling: im not relaxed

Stretching and looking relaxed: im not relaxed

leaving the table frequently: im not relaxed and i have attention deficit disorder.

Chatting by telling others about the big hands they let go: I want you to recognise im a good player

That almost describes me perfectly apart from the last point.

Yawning: I'm usually knackered past 2am

whistling: I just can't get that Amarillo song out of head. Poker can get boring, I like entertaining the table with my bad whistling.

Stretching and looking relaxed: Sitting at those tables for hours on end, you have to take a good stretch now and again. As for looking relaxed, if I was anymore relaxed I'd fall asleep(done that too).

Leaving the table frequently: Cronic Nicotine cravings.

Chatting by telling others about the big hands they let go: That can't be me because I've never passed a big hand.

kinaldo

rounders123 wrote:

Exactly
I mean youre only really working out to get through the 'work out' right

isn't that from seinfeld?

Krusty_Clown

Yawn: Sign. 1. A sudden, deep inhalation of air accompanied by an open mouth, tightened cheek muscles, eye closure, and tearing. 2. An involuntary deep breath due to sleepiness, fatigue, boredom, or emotional conflict. 3. A socially contagious gaping behavior, often difficult to suppress.

Usage: Usually a sign of drowsiness, yawning also occurs, e.g., in tense business meetings as a sign of mild anxiety, disagreement, or uncertainty. When alert listeners yawn in response to controversial suggestions or ideas, the yawn signals a probing point, i.e., an opportunity to explore unverbalized objections or clarify unvoiced concerns.

In a tense setting, adrenaline lowers the blood's oxygen level and yawning speeds reoxygenation (Hill 1977).

Scientific:
Neuro-notes. Yawning is a reflexive, highly contagious act. Babies born without a brain above the midbrain (i.e., anencephalic infants) can still yawn (and stretch). Stimuli associated, e.g., with tiredness, the sight of others yawning, or social stress pass a. from higher brain centers, b. to respiratory centers in the brain-stem's medulla, and then c. to somatic motor nuclei of the trigeminal (cranial V) and facial (cranial VII) nerves. Excitement of motor fibers in the facial nerve and in the trigeminal's mandibular branch opens the mouth widely and stimulates activity in the phrenic (cervical 3, 4, and 5) nerves to the diaphragm, and intercostal (thoracic 1-12) nerves to the external intercostal muscles, causing a deep inspiration followed by deep exhalation.

When you see that mouth open wide - cram it full of chips..