Formula One: R.I.P.

Jonny Arson

F1, you have provide so many great moments for me and many other motor racing fans but tragically you finally blew it and your sport died today at 7pm.

Bernie Ecclestaone, Max Mosely, other F1 cheifs, teams and of course Michelin thanks for ruining this once great sport. You tried your hardest over the past few years to kill it off and you have finally suceeded. I will never watch this sport ever again.

A

byte

Inclined to agree with you, though I have been waning from it for a while now.

muckwarrior

In fairness, if you ignore all the political bullshít it's been a pretty entertaining season up to now IMO.

DMC

Spectators are livid on 5 Live.....

el rabitos

i've loved f1 since as long as i can remember so its a sad day for the sport

too many ego's
too much politics going on
ferrari with constant unsportingly behaviour undermines the efforts of the other teams.

best season in years so far on the track. f1 didnt need this at this time and at this particular race

0utshined

What happened?

***Edit: Just found out. Seems like a bit of a joke tbh.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=sportsNews&storyID=8831381

Ay Cee

I was gonna post under the exact same topic title!

It's all fuked up but what has me confused the most is the classification.

It's shows Trulli as 7th and Kimi as 8th. What I don't get is, if they all pulled in after the formation lap (in order) then surely Jarno would have been the 1st to retire, Kimi 2nd etc.

Should it not be the reverse order? With DC taking 7th?!

Tá mé ana conflusterized.

OFDM

First they ruined pit stops by introducing refueling, then they made them worse by getting rid of tyre changes. I can remember when McLaren could change all 4 of Senna's tyre's in under 5 seconds. That was exciting stuff.

And they made qualifying completely unexciting too with this one lap crap. F1's gone to hell in the last 5 to 10 years.

Jonny Arson

On the track its been ok but we all know these idiots controlling F1 have f**ked around with the rules and regulations so much that the sport has become nothing but laughable.

What must happen now:

Michelin have to be kicked out of F1 and fined till kingdom come - no one can argue with that after today.

Bernie Ecclestone has to resign - when he was been interviewed by Martin Brundle he conclusively proved what an arrogant t**ser he is. The only thing he cares about is money.

Max Mosely also has to resign - He has been the man responsible for all this clowning around of the rules for the past 3/4 years that has lead to the inevitable happening.

The FIA must cut their ties with Ferrari - we all know the words FIA and ferrari go together and are one. Ferrari have too much say over everything in this sport are only in this for themselves. The testing scenario proves this. The teams must lose any say over regualtions and there must be one voice in F1 and that is the FIA.

Tony George must sue the FIA - Tony George head of the Indianapolis motor speedway will lose millions upon millions from refunds he must give back to the public. The FIA must refund him and all of the fans who spend so much hard earned cash on attending todays GP.

These are just some of things that must happen if Formula 1 is to ever regain any credibility after today. Sadly the damage is already done and is irrepairable. The will never be a US GP ever again after this.

I'm going to watch some real and professionally run motor racing now in the form of NASCAR, IRL, Champ Car, BTCC, DTM, Moto GP, British Superbikes, WTCC, Britsh F3...... the list goes on and on, the so called pinnicle of motor racing is the biggest sham of them all!

flocker

There is a solution, wheel to wheel RACING, overtaking, sideways action, characters and entertainment it must be Moto GP or Superbikes. I was never really into bikes but l have found that the racing close and eventful.
Today's USA GP was a fiasco and joke and sad sad day for F1, looking forward to Assen.

steviec

It was cringeworthy watching Bernie being interviewed by Brundle. He messed up bigtime this weekend, as did the FIA.

I think it's being blown out of proportion somewhat though. This has been the best F1 season for years and ratings are way up and one semi-abandoned race isn't going to undo that. Races have been abandoned before, matches have been abandoned in other sports. The completely avoidable nature by which it happened is the problem, and there will have to be repurcussions for those who messed up. But it's definitely not the end of formula 1.

Also, a couple of people on this thread are complaining about Ferrari. What the hell? They came to race, they did a good job and were competitive all weekend, they actually raced a little and put on more of a show than they could have. They were dignified on the podium while Monteiro milked it. What the hell are Ferrari guilty of? All three bridgestone teams were rightly racing, whatever Stoddart says. 6 cars is better than 4 cars or 2 cars or no cars. Just because other teams mess up its not their problem. It's like when people blamed Ferrari for being too fast a couple of years ago rather than the real problem of nobody else being competitive :rolleyes:

The blame for this weekend lies on Michelin. They created a situation that the FIA were too incompetent to deal with. Bridgestone have got a lot of bad publicity for being uncompetive all season and now it's Michelin's turn in that spotlight. It'll be interesting to see how they bounce back. And what rules are put in place to make sure the problem doesn't occur again. I don't think flinging up a chicane in an hour was a realistic option by the way. Just an attempt by Michelin to put the blame on someone else. If their components were only capable of taking that corner at a certain speed then they should take it at that speed without the need for a chicane to just artificially slow the bridgestones down to their level.

lomb

michael and rubens race was fixed also, they were lying thru their teeth in the after race conference,the going into the grass was fixed to salvage something of it, 'close racing' my ass, both ferraris were lapping at nearly the same pace as the backmarkers!

its pure crap these days anyway.

Dempsey

Ferrari are rightly being competitive but on a weekend like this where the sport is in crisis not to stand and say "FIA, yer a pack of FÚCKING IDIOTS, put in the chicane and let us all race", no they didnt, they've no concern about the sports future.

Bring back Good Year, all is forgiven..

Ay Cee

the going into the grass was fixed

No way was that fixed! Ferrari would not risk taking both cars out for the sake of a show. Ferrari race to the 2nd pit stop. Who ever is in the lead then stays put.

Plus all their radio is monitored so they're not gonna risk being overheard telling the drivers what to do.

lomb

Ay Cee wrote:

No way was that fixed! Ferrari would not risk taking both cars out for the sake of a show. Ferrari race to the 2nd pit stop. Who ever is in the lead then stays put.

Plus all their radio is monitored so they're not gonna risk being overheard telling the drivers what to do.

haha of course it was fixed, rubens should have pushed hard that lap knowing michael was on the way out!this is ferrari we are talking about, they needed to get their man in front of the pawn known as rubens whilst making it look good......

also i think ferrari have 'code words' like thats a 'ten-four' means micheals coming out and u better let him past and make it look real or u can enjoy retirement u pawn........

mad m

Haha,ah no way lads is Rubens Michaels dog....Woof...here boy...good Rubens...good boy.

lomb

WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF im rubens WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF

Azza

Why did they not award all Bridgestone teams max points, throw in the chicane and allow the teams to race for another set of points.

Michelin made an error and a staggering one at that and they should be severly punished but exclusion is abit much for one mistake.

Ferrari on the other hand realising that this was a chance to get there championship back on track blocked the chicane idea (but the FAI was not going for that idea and was within its right to do so even if ferrari had backed the idea it was a none stater). Why should the playing field be leveled for there rivals (championship rivals) screwing up. Any solution that resulted in ferrari getting more points than there rivals where preferable to the other teams getting a chicane or race rerun (or michelin recieving a fine and other teams raced and scored more points). But a poor decision for race fans Ferrari popular as they are would of gained respect by agreeing to them (making them appear to care for the fans).

Nuttzz

they should have put in the chicane and then docked each michlein runner ten places at the end of the race.

Young Siward

Bernie to Brundle: Saturday wrote:

"Yes there will be 20 car race tomorrow"

Bullsh*t


Yes Michelin effed up. When you have 7 of the top 8 teams doing constant development for you, putting in 3 times the mileage the Bridgestone lads are doing, then this shouldn't happen. Already storys are circulating that they're out of F1, which will end up as more bullsh*t. Now Bridgestone did have some test data off the Firestone slicks used at the Indy 500, but this was ridiculous.

Yet not as ridiculous as the FIA/Ferrari's non attempts to play ball.

There was plenty of solutions on the table.

They could have deleted all the Michelin times and let them run on the harder compounds being flown out.
They could have awarded half points to the Michelin runners and let them run on harder tyres.
They could agreed to put in that chicane.
They could have given each Michelin runner time penalties after the race.

Of course Ferrari's continued insistance to look after their own self interest locked them out. Howeverit would be easy to blame Ferrari for all F1's problems - it's not their fault what happened today but they could have done more IMO.

BTW for how much longer is Rubens going to sit and take what Ferrari are doing to him. Yes he is an inferior driver to Schuey but how much can a man take? I thought the corner was his, it all smacks of Austria all over again. Disgusting.

MrPudding

Young Siward wrote:

They could have deleted all the Michelin times and let them run on the harder compounds being flown out.

They flew out other tyres but couldn't say that these wouldn't also have the problem.

I appreciate that most people think a compromise should have been agreed but I think Whiting's letter says it all. Why should a team that got it right be punished because other team did not bring the correct kit?

Why is it so bad that F1 had a bad race? Is this the first time a shorting event has not run as planned? Has there never been a sporting event cancelled?

What would happen if a football team turned up to an away match with no kit? Would they play shirts and skins? Would the home team offer to play without boots to "level the playing field?"

What is bullsh1t is the crap most people here are talking. Sure it was a fcukup, it was Michelin's fcukup. Not the FIA, not Jordan, not Minardi and not Ferrari. Get over yourselves. If you are so fickle that one controversy in one race puts you off an entire sport then that is your loss.

The whole reason they have been changing the rules is to try to make the sport more interesting. Of all the changes made over the last few years the only one I really don't like is the single lap qualifying. I preferred the old system, even though you usually saw no action for have the qualifying period (one of the reasons for bringing in teh single lap qualifying in the first place.)

Most of the new rule changes have had a good effect on the races, this season being one of the most exciting I can remember.

MrP

Kali

Was I the only one routing for a Minardi to take third? Jordan didn't deserve it

Töpher

Kali wrote:

Was I the only one routing for a Minardi to take third? Jordan didn't deserve it

They'd have milked it more than Moteiro...

Ay Cee

What is bullsh1t is the crap most people here are talking. Sure it was a fcukup, it was Michelin's fcukup. Not the FIA, not Jordan, not Minardi and not Ferrari. Get over yourselves. If you are so fickle that one controversy in one race puts you off an entire sport then that is your loss.

Good point!

Curran

What is bullsh1t is the crap most people here are talking. Sure it was a fcukup, it was Michelin's fcukup. Not the FIA, not Jordan, not Minardi and not Ferrari. Get over yourselves. If you are so fickle that one controversy in one race puts you off an entire sport then that is your loss.

Ay Cee wrote:

Good point!

I agree!!!

Robbo

MrPudding wrote:

What is bullsh1t is the crap most people here are talking. Sure it was a fcukup, it was Michelin's fcukup. Not the FIA, not Jordan, not Minardi and not Ferrari. Get over yourselves. If you are so fickle that one controversy in one race puts you off an entire sport then that is your loss.

Where would the internet be without gloriously OTT kneejerk forum posts?

****ups happen in every sport. Look at the Aintree Grand National when they had to cancel due to not being able to get the start right, look at football games abandoned due to hooliganism, look at GAA matches that end in courtrooms...

Jonny Arson

Robbo wrote:

Where would the internet be without gloriously OTT kneejerk forum posts?

****ups happen in every sport. Look at the Aintree Grand National when they had to cancel due to not being able to get the start right, look at football games abandoned due to hooliganism, look at GAA matches that end in courtrooms...

So that means what happened yesterday is totally acceptable?

BS

Lamar

no-one can blame the FIA for it....you can just blame michelin....bridgestone did there job and brought the right tyre...do you thing there would have been such a big fuss if the brigestone cars didnt run?i somehow dont think so......
i couldnt really care tho...ferarri 1 2 so im happy.....

Jonny Arson

Lamar wrote:

no-one can blame the FIA for it....you can just blame michelin....bridgestone did there job and brought the right tyre...do you thing there would have been such a big fuss if the brigestone cars didnt run?i somehow dont think so......
i couldnt really care tho...ferarri 1 2 so im happy.....

This event was the FIA's show... they are responsible overall. Michelin are responsible for the incident and deservedly should be kicked out of F1. The GP should have never gone ahead. If the FIA and teams showed any respect for the fans they would have cancelled the GP before it started and re-run the race towards the end of the season.

Oh yeah Ferrari 1 2 thats a tremendous result isn't? :rolleyes:

Robbo

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

So that means what happened yesterday is totally acceptable?

BS

In no way whatsoever. It was more to highlight how absurd some of the reactions along the lines of "I'll never watch another grand prix again and I'll blind my children so they don't have to either" have been, that I've seen scattered around various corners of t'internet.

Personally, I see yesterday's events as an unfortunate solution to a chain of worst case scenario style occurences.

Corben Dallas

Well done Ferrari! Hats off on a stunning 'win at all costs' race.

/sarcasm

Ferrari vetoed the chinace idea, cause they are desperate to win under any cirumstances. If Jordan (useless fukcers that they are - EJ would never have allowed this to happen on his watch) had stuck to there origanal deal that they would'nt race with the chinace neither would have Minardi.

I think Ferrari are so desparate to win now they would have their two cars out and circulated alone for 70laps.

They already have refused to take part in teh cost cutting test milage ban this year, all other 9 teams signed, Ferrari didnt.
and Michelin didnt veto Bridgstone in Brazil 03 when you fooked up forgot to bring any full wets.
What goes arround comes around Ferrari.

So lets all give a big hand to Micheal Schumacher and the Ferrari Managenment for their crushing of those fearsome battlers and giants of F1 Jordan and Minardi
:_|

MrPudding

Corben Dallas wrote:

Well done Ferrari! Hats off on a stunning 'win at all costs' race.

/sarcasm

Ferrari vetoed the chinace idea, cause they are desperate to win under any cirumstances. If Jordan (useless fukcers that they are - EJ would never have allowed this to happen on his watch) had stuck to there origanal deal that they would'nt race with the chinace neither would have Minardi.

I was under the impression that the FIA didn't even consider the idea, not that Ferrari vetoed it. Many times during the Grand Prix we heard that "9 team have agreed, only 1 won't." Paul Stoddard said that 1 team was Jordan *not* Ferrari.

This is interesting:

The FIA wrote:

The FIA has placed the blame for the United States Grand Prix farce squarely on Michelin’s shoulders.

In a strongly worded statement, the sport’s governing body said that adding a chicane to the Indianapolis track – as requested by Michelin – was never a realistic option.

The FIA instead suggested to Michelin that their cars should voluntarily drive through the crucial Turn 13 at a reduced speed.

“We were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner,” the statement read.

“We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess.

“However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. They suggested a chicane.

“The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules.

“The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down.

“The Michelin teams' lack of speed through Turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula 1.”

The FIA categorically dismissed the chicane option advocated by the Michelin teams.

“A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally – from ultra-high speed to very slow and twisting,” said the FIA statement.

“It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes.

“It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures.”

Although the statement made no specific reference to possible penalties, it was heavily critical of Michelin’s conduct.

“(F1’s rules) cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race,” it read.

“The FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that ‘tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstances’.

“Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable.

“Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis.

“Rather than boycott the race the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in Turn 13.

“The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race.

“As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport.”

Corben Dallas wrote:

They already have refused to take part in teh cost cutting test milage ban this year, all other 9 teams signed, Ferrari didnt.

I am not a Ferrari apologist but they do have a valid point. Bridgestone would not get enough data from only 3 teams if the test mileage ban was running. That wouldn't really be fair would it? Let me get this straight, you don't think it is fair that Ferrari do extra mileage to get tyre data but you do think it is fair that teams that bring the right kit get penalised because other teams can't bring the right kit? Sounds like you're just anti-Ferrari.

Corben Dallas wrote:

So lets all give a big hand to Micheal Schumacher and the Ferrari Managenment for their crushing of those fearsome battlers and giants of F1 Jordan and Minardi
:_|

IS your problem that it is Ferrari that won? Would you be complaining if it was bridgestones that had the problem? If it was bridgestones that had the problem do you think the Michelin would not have raced?

It is most unfortunate but it is no ones fault but Michelin's, and maybe the teams for not bringing backup sets of tyres as required.

MrP

JimmyL

Anyone mentioned the word 'Sport' yet in this thread - haven't read all the posts?

The problem in America is that people are more interested in the show rather the sport (e.g. Pro Wrestling - hope I haven't started something with that).

And here we have another show. It would not be impossible for the Michellin runners to have raced but with much reduced preformance but I don't think any of the major manufacturers (BMW, Mercedes, etc) would want to been seen beaten in front of the biggest market in the world, no matter the circumstance.

Karma

I remember Michael retired from a race this season from 2 punctures due to tire wear. I don't remember anybody saying anything to change the result or the race. Just failed to finish because of the wrong equipment choice. I agree that the race was a bit of a facre but the bridgestone runners did nothing wrong. The drivers I support/cheer for all went to pit lane. I look to the teams decision on the tire choices they made.
Any changes to the rules, would have opened a whole new silly season of "what else we can mess with". I really dislike Michael(yet I call him by his 1st name?) and the things he has done in the past to win. So this was a tough one for me as they were not in the wrong. It was with the teams and Michelin.

I didnt do it

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

This event was the FIA's show... they are responsible overall. Michelin are responsible for the incident and deservedly should be kicked out of F1. The GP should have never gone ahead. If the FIA and teams showed any respect for the fans they would have cancelled the GP before it started and re-run the race towards the end of the season.

Oh yeah Ferrari 1 2 thats a tremendous result isn't? :rolleyes:

It is not the FIA who are responsible for this mess. They give spefications to the tyre companies. The Michelin tyres were within those specs, but at the high speed of turn 13 they couldn't cope.

The FIA were correct to start the race. The other teams left had done nothing wrong and THEIR tyre company had the right tyre.

If Scumacher had a defective car, do you think they would call off the race. I don't think so.

This talk of buildng a chicane is B*llsh*t. You can't change the course to suit a team.

I bet if this happened to to Ferrari, nobody would be giving out and the race would have went ahead as normal. The only reason we are talking about it is because of the amount of cars MICHELIN'S F*CK UP caused.

Corben Dallas

"I am not a Ferrari apologist but they do have a valid point. Bridgestone would not get enough data from only 3 teams if the test mileage ban was running. That wouldn't really be fair would it? Let me get this straight, you don't think it is fair that Ferrari do extra mileage to get tyre data but you do think it is fair that teams that bring the right kit get penalised because other teams can't bring the right kit? Sounds like you're just anti-Ferrari."

The other Bridgestone teams >Jordan and Minardi do shag all testing, they cant afford it. Ferrari test for themselves and dont share data with any other Bridgestone team, hell the bridgestone tire is a bespoke tire made to suit the characteristics of the Ferrari.
Ferrari just arent playing fair, i think its quoted in Autosport that by not signing the test mileage reduction, they are free to do a many miles as they want, I think they already done twice as many miles as Mclaren's or Renault's total.
Sure michelin fooked up, but if a compromise wasnt reached they ran the risk of a Michelin driver seriosly getting hurt, Bridgestone (read Ferrari) refused to allow a chicane and they collect 18 points. Michelin even said that they would run the race with teh chicane and no Michelin runners would score points and they would at least put on a race.
But no Bridgstone wanted the unworkable and dangerous arrangement were Michelin runners would back off into the final banked trun and Bridgstone cars would take it flat. can u imagine the potential accident that could cause.

MrPudding

Corben Dallas wrote:

............ Bridgestone (read Ferrari) refused to allow a chicane and they collect 18 points.

............But no Bridgstone wanted the unworkable and dangerous arrangement were Michelin runners would back off into the final banked trun and Bridgstone cars would take it flat. can u imagine the potential accident that could cause.

OK. I have done extensive reading on this since it happened. Anything I find about it states that the FIA, not Bridgestone or Ferrari, decided (correctly) that the chicane should not be installed. You seem to have different information to mine. I have posted the statement from the FIA can you please post links showing your evedence that it was Bridgestone that blocked the installation of the chicane?

Again I ask the question, if it was Bridgestone that had the problem would you be complaining?

In what other sport would a team with the right kit be punished because another team brought the wrong kit.

I will post this excerpt again incase the full post was, as I suspect, too much for you to be bothered reading:

The FIA wrote:

“(F1’s rules) cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race,” it read.

“The FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that ‘tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstances’.

“Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable.

“Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis.

“Rather than boycott the race the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in Turn 13.

“The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race.

“As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport.”

MrP

RicardoSmith

They made themselves look like a bunch of tosser's. Which they are.

For me the sport has been a shambles for a good few years now. I stopped watching a couple of years ago. Nothing they've done of late would make me start watching again. Wish they'd show Indy Car on the TV. Much better.

BANZAI_RUNNER

for those of you who still blame ferrari for not allowing the chicane on turn 13 i suggest you read this

.21 June 2005 - [02:33]
We were never consulted explains Todt
After Sunday’s controversial United States Grand Prix at Indianapolis, Jean Todt clarified Ferrari’s position in the run-up to the situation which led to 14 Michelin runners peeling off into the pits at the end of the parade lap, taking no further part in the race. But first Todt admitted that...

“I feel sorry about what happened, but I mainly feel sorry for all the supporters who were here, for the American supporters, for the TV viewers but it was not our decision.”

The reason why the Michelin runners took no part in the race was because they had unsuitable tyres on which they were recommended not to race. Compromises were sought from various sources to let the Michelin runners race, even for no points, but no solution was found. At one point, a chicane was suggested in the quick banked corner at the end of the lap, where one of the Michelin tyre failures took place during practice. Todt explained that he was not consulted on this.

“We were never involved with those discussions,” said Todt. “Never involved. We were never asked about that. Whether we would have agreed or not is another question, and I tell you right now, to be sincere, we would not have agreed, but we were never asked about that. But is it serious to decide to put in a chicane half an hour without nobody testing it? It’s ridiculous.”

Todt did say that Bernie Ecclestone had talked to him about “different proposals, including a chicane, but again, it’s a matter of the FIA, it’s not a matter of the commercial rights holder (Ecclestone’s position). And I said that for me it was up to the FIA to decide.”

Continuing to explain his position, Todt pointed out that…

“Number one, it’s an FIA decision. Number two, if something happened on the other side; if, for example, we don’t have enough grip for qualifying and we ask for three laps because we have good grip after the third lap, or if we ask for a chicane because we feel it would be safer for our tyres, I think everybody would laugh at us. So you just have to be prepared to react to a situation. You have two sets of tyres which you chose from, one normally is soft, the other one is hard and then you make your choice. I feel sorry for those who could not compete, but I feel more sorry, again, for the supporters.”

Todt then explained the disadvantages of the sudden installation of a chicane.

“If we knew beforehand that there would be a chicane, we would have come prepared for a chicane. We would come with different tyres, we would have a different set-up on the car, we would have different gear ratios. Honestly, why should we compromise? We try to do a good job with Bridgestone, and we did not do a very good job with Bridgestone since the beginning of the year. We arrive, we are in a situation where we see from Friday that we are competitive, we don’t have any problem with tyres so for us it’s an opportunity.”

There was even a suggestion that the Michelin teams would compete for no points if a chicane was installed. But Todt’s reply was…

“Would we have competed for no points? I say no. If this race would have been a race without points which cannot be, it would have been out of the FIA standard, we would not have started.”

Asked what sort of harm the boycott had done the image of Formula One, Todt replied…

“Very bad. I wish we could come back to the States because it’s a very important country, it’s now our number one market, the States, and for so many years Bernie has tried to implement something in the States. Unfortunately, it was not the best demonstration. It has been a hard hit for Formula One.”

Todt explained that the teams had been warned about pushing the tyre situation to the limit.

“We all got a letter two weeks ago warning us after the Monte Carlo race and after Nurburgring when Raikkonen had his problem, that we had to pay special attention to the tyres, the pressures, about all that, and it’s something we thought could happen for a while.”

Asked under what circumstances he would you have been willing to race with the Michelin runners, Todt said…

“I would say three options. One, they could have changed their tyres. Two, they would have to compromise in this specific corner. And three, they could have used the pit lane. If these cars cannot take this corner, what can I do? You would have had a race.”

andyman

Hold on a second!!!

According to FIA rules on F1,

THE FIA wrote:

If there are no more than 12 cars on the grid than the race is abandoned

Why the f*** did this GP get going can someone tell me?

Nuttzz

the formation lap is technically the first lap of the GP, all the teams lined up....

MrPudding

Also, I beleive they reserve the right to cancel the race if there are less than 12 cars.

MrP

Corben Dallas

OK. I have done extensive reading on this since it happened. Anything I find about it states that the FIA, not Bridgestone or Ferrari, decided (correctly) that the chicane should not be installed. You seem to have different information to mine. I have posted the statement from the FIA can you please post links showing your evedence that it was Bridgestone that blocked the installation of the chicane?

Me too, I read all the main F1 sites. FIA made the call but both Bridgestone and Ferrari (Jean Todt in particular) have said if it was up to them/if they were asked, they would have said no way, were not compromsing anything.(>>mainly to include a trun 13 barrier)
I believe Bridgstone were asked to consider a compromise by the FIA and siad no way, whcih meant we didnt get a 20car race. ( i think the article was on F1-live, but I cant access their archives.
This links/quotes might give a general tone on Ferrari/Bridgstones openess to allow a compromise.

http://www.planet-f1.com/news/story_19980.shtml

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=90247

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=90312

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=90247

“All the teams, except Ferrari, said the problem could be solved by putting in a temporary chicane at the accident blackspot to slow the cars down.
It was also an alternative which the Grand Prix Drivers Association and track owner Tony George agreed with.
And a chicane was the only way Michelin would approve teams using their tyres to race.
But the chicane had no approval from the FIA, motor sport’s ruling body, and it never appeared.”
Stan Piecha, The Sun

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Also theres a precedent for this, In Brazil 03 Bridgestone (forgot/didnt bother/ brought extra soft compounds to the race) didnt bring any full wets for their teams, Tire companies were only allowed bring 3/4 different componds which included their Wets and Intermediates.
It pelted down, they had monsoon type conditions.
Bridgstone petitioned the FIA,(to bring in full wets) and Michelin allowed it on safety grounds because it would have been dangerous for their drivers to be sliding around on inters.
I cant see why (on safety grounds) Bridgestone/Ferrari could'nt have returned the favour before the US Gp turned into a farce.

RicardoSmith

Greed, and ambition....

They'll reap what they sow...hopefully...

OSiriS

As far as I am aware the Michelin runnerc completed their contractual agreement by lining up on the grid and completing the warmup lap. Under other circumstances if one car was forced to retire due to safety concerns no-one would bat an eye. In this case 14 cars were forced to retire due to safety concerns no-one could come to an agreement to address.

Ay Cee

Why is it that every one complaining is blaming Ferrari?!

Why should they sign up to the testing ban? They own they're own test track. Do you think if Ron Dennis had his own track he'd sign up for it?!

Why not hate Sauber's aero-dynamics because they have the most state of the art wind tunnel? How long before BMW have their road cars in there (which WILL fit)?

The fact is Michelin fuked up...big time! Why should the FIA change the track layout to accommodate their mistake? Guarantee you this, I bet Michelin won't do it again! Rules upheld = lesson learned

As someone already mentioned there wouldn't be half this furore if it was Bridgestone that made the balls up. "Hey Ron, Flav, Frank listen, Bridgestone have made a bollix of their tyres. They want to know can we stick a little chicane at the end of the lap because if you go too fast on thier tyres they will fail. Is that alright?!"

C'mon lads be serious.

Jean Todt said they weren't consulted about the chicane. Irregardless he said they wouldn't have agreed anyway. And really...can you blame him?

Also regarding Brazil. If I'm not mistaken neither tyre manufacturer brought monsoons because the storm was not expected. Wasn't it part of some new cost reduction measure? My memory's dodgy, I have the race on tape though, but was the race not run under safety car until conditions cleared up? I'm probably thinking of Malaysia though

RicardoSmith

I don't think it matters who is too blame. All of F1 will be tarred with the same brush.

trekkypj

Ferrari were blatant opportunists and ensured that no compromise could be agreed.

However, that was a small detail. The blame lies with Moseley and the FIA and them alone for turning a safety issue of the Michelin runner's into a disaster for F1.

As president of the FIA, Max has a duty to take whatever steps to protect F1 and the teams and drivers competing. But he has lost sense of this duty by engaging in bitter and idiotic politicing and refusing to compromise to any of the solutions presented by the 'Michelin 7'

Michelin goofed, but they were prepared to take a huge hit in credibility to ensure the safety of drivers AND SPECTATORS alike. The teams were prepared to endure huge losses to ensure safety by not competing. You can't really blame Ferrari either, even if they did take advantage and act in a very immoral manner.

The FIA were ultimately responsible because they were not prepared to be reasonable and fair. Personally, I thinK the FIA should be sued till it collapses from the financial losses and a new, impartial body set up to represent motorsport.

steviec

Where and how did Ferrari act in an immoral manner? They had their own race weekend and raced. They were the only team who didn't get involved in the whole 'here's a chance to put pressure on the FIA' politics that even the other bridgestone teams did. They're a racing team and they raced. If bridgestone had the failure and not michelin we wouldn't have had this controversy, the michelin teams would have raced without them and nobody would have cried foul. But as usual everyone takes any slight opportunity to take a dig at Ferrari, who seem to be the one and only team not at fault this weekend.

Ferrari DID NOT block any attempts to put a chicane in. They were not involved, nowhere have I seen it written that they had any direct input on this whatsoever. The only thing Ferrari did was not ask for anything. The other two bridgestone teams were only siding with the michelin teams for a chance to play politics and keep strong ties with those teams. And of course they went and raced anyway and completely nullified any commitment they made to standing firm with the other teams.

The only people to blame were Michelin, and to a lesser extent the FIA. Yes it could have been handled better by the FIA, but just plonking a chicane in is not a simple task. In their own press release they pointed out that it wouldn't be possible to make sure the chicane was set up to adequate standards in the time allowed. While in real terms they probably could have put a safe chicane together, they couldn't have it legally certified as up to their safety specifications in time which means if there was a crash they'd be in serious trouble. The Michelin teams could have taken it handy at that turn or gone through the pitlane and avoided it altogether or changed tyres every few laps or whatever was needed. If they wanted a chicane they could have just slowed down as if there was one. The bridgestone teams would be aware of this and wouldn't be running into the back of them.

The FIA still have to take a lot of the blame though. There seem to be crises over poorly thought out rules all the time in recent years and there never should have been a situation where there were no safe tyres. They should have allowed Michelin to bring whatever tyres they needed to replace the faulty ones if at all possible, or even delayed the race until a solution was found. Couldn't Bridgestone have supplied the tyres on a once off basis? I know there'd be major contract issues there but it would be great publicity for bridgestone, less of a disaster for michelin than the eventual situation was, and better for all the teams so surely an agreement could have been made somewhere.

SouperComputer

Couldn't Bridgestone have supplied the tyres on a once off basis?

thats something my wife said. Contractually no, also you could possibly argue on the grounds of safety the setup would be complex.

would have been interesting though!

I think there should be a choice of tyre manufacturers and teams chop and change during the season. That would make things pretty interesting!

Michelin are the only company to blame. They were not prepared. Simple as that.

The FIA were ultimately responsible because they were not prepared to be reasonable and fair. Personally, I thinK the FIA should be sued till it collapses from the financial losses and a new, impartial body set up to represent motorsport.

What the FIA did was totally fair. The rules were the same for all, that made it fair. Sue em all you like, it wont be the 1st time & you wont win! They have been around since the inception of motorsport. They do not represent it. They regulate it. theres a big difference.

The FIA did what they are meant to do - regulate with safety in mind. The FIA is not there to crowd please or please wingers that are at a disadvantage (michelin). Thats for the f1 brigade, FOCA and all those other f1-specific companies to do.

Its a crap result, but thats racing. Safety comes 1st, then the regulations and then the fans.

Corben Dallas

http://f1.racing-live.com/en/index.html

Paul Stoddart spills the beans on the US GP Farce


"What was requested of the Bridgestone teams was to allow a chicane to be constructed at Turn 13, which would then allow Michelin to advise their teams that, in their opinion, the tyres would be able to complete the race distance. It was made very clear that this was the only viable option available, as previous suggestions from the FIA, such as speed-limiting the Michelin cars through Turn 13, could, and probably would, give rise to a monumental accident. This idea, as well as one concerning the possibility of pit stops every 10 laps, were dismissed, and discussion returned to the only sensible solution – a chicane. During this discussion, a technical representative with specific knowledge of the Indianapolis circuit, together with representatives from IMS, were tasked with preparing the design of a chicane, and Bernie Ecclestone agreed to speak with the one Team Principal not present, Mr Todt, and to inform the FIA President, Max Mosley, who was not present at Indianapolis, of the planned solution to allow the successful running of the US Grand Prix. With only a few hours now remaining to the start of the race, we agreed to reconvene as soon as Bernie had responses from Messrs Todt and Mosley.

At approximately 1055 hrs, Bernie informed us that not only would Mr Todt not agree, stating that it was not a Ferrari problem, but an FIA and a Michelin problem, but also Mr Mosley had stated that if any attempts were made to alter the circuit, he would cancel the Grand Prix forthwith.

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So there u have it, not only is Jean Todt an almighty fibber “ Ferrari were never asked about the chicane etc etc”…..PORKIES JEAN! X-( But all 9 teams agreed on the chicane idea, Ferrari vetoed it and Max Mosley put his size 9’s in as well saying that if the Circuit were altered at all the FIA would remove all sanctioning from future US motorsport.

So it proves Ferrari are so desperate for wins this year they adapt unsporting conduct by getting the other teams excluded. I hope Jean Todt chokes on those 18 points and it’s the only win Ferrari get this year.

I think everything (reasonable) was done to get a race with 20 cars at the Us GP but we can lay the blame at Jean Todts and( would is so desperate to get a win this year he prob would have sent the Ferraris out by themselves if Jordan sided with the Michelin teams (and Minardi would not have raced) for 70 laps and whooped and cheered they 2 drivers on the podium))
Max Mosley’s door, who shouldn’t be running F1 with this level of incompetence.