Your starting 15 for the 26th

monkeyman

Based on what I've seen so far, here are my definites:-

1. Jenkins
2. Byrne (Thompson is better but the lineout is key)
3. White
4. Undecided yet
5. O'Connell
6. Undecided yet
7. Neil Back (looks very sharp and his final hoorah) or Moody
8. Martin Corry (he'd want to keep the hands down)
9. Peel (in a class of his own)
10. Jones (Wilkinson unproven, and shirking some tackles)
11. Thomas
12. Henson (Darcy not doin it for me)
13. O'Driscoll (he'd want to up it a fair bit though)
14. Murphy or Lewsey (either way)
15. Murphy or Lewsey

Bench
Wilkinson
Thompson
Moody
Cussiter

Go on the piss
Hayes
O'Gara

Davey Devil

I'm sure the All Blacks will be shìtting themselves. Worst Lions team ever. 3-0 whitewash and a drubbing in each game.

BogOak

15. Murphy
14. Lewsey
13. O'Driscoll
12. Henson/Horgan/Shanklin
11. Thomas
10. Wilkinson/Jones
9. Peel
1. Jenkins
2. Byrne
3. White
4. Kay
5. O'Connell
6. Hill
7. Back
8. Corry

i think thats how i'd play them. i'm really torn about flyhalf. inside centre... i just haven't seen what's so great about henson. d'arcy doesn't seem to be in any kind of form. i don't know. back row a bit old as well but i haven't been impressed by williams, moody or any of the rest of them really.

evilhomer

15. Lewsey
14. Murphy
13. O'Driscoll
12. Shanklin (the most solid inside centre of the lot)
11. Thomas
10. Jones (I still don't believe wilkinson deserves to be on this tour)
9. Peel
1. Jenkins
2. Byrne
3. White
4. Kay
5. O'Connell
6. Hill
7. Back/Moody
8. Corry

The team pretty much picks itself. but we need to see the back click or we have no chance.

Souless

15. Murphy
14. Lewsey
13. O'Driscoll
12. Henson
11. Thomas
10. Jones/ROG (because of line out importance ROG is perfect for kicking into touch)
9. Cuisiter
1. Jenkins
2. Byrne
3. White
4. Kay
5. O'Connell
6. Shanklin
7. Back
8. Corry/Owen

This is from what Ive seen so far anyway. Some might change after tomorrows game but doubt it.

andyman

15. Lewsey/Murphy
14. Cueto
13. O'Driscoll
12. Henson
11. Thomas
10. Jones/O'Gara(Why is Wilkinson on the Tour? Hodgson is playing better than him, played well against Taranaki)
9. Peel
1. Jenkins
2. Byrne
3. White
4. Kay
5. O'Connell
6. Hill
7. Back
8. Owen

Could consider Corry at N.o. 8 but Owen has been playing well.

MG

Shanklin at 6!!???!!!??? A bit too much total rugby even for Sir Clive!

Trojan

1-15:

# Gethin Jenkins (Wal)
# Shane Byrne (Ire)
# Julian White (Eng)
# Ben Kay (Eng)
# Paul O'Connell (Ire)
# Richard Hill (Eng)
# Neil Back (Eng)
# Martin Corry (Eng) (captain)
# Dwayne Peel (Wal)
# Charlie Hodgeson (Eng)
# Gareth Thomas (Wal)
# Gavin Henson (Wal)
# Brian O'Driscoll (Ire)
# Denis Hickey (Ire)
# Geordan Murphy (Ire)

No one else with me on the Hickey call?

Souless

MG wrote:

Shanklin at 6!!???!!!??? A bit too much total rugby even for Sir Clive!

Yep shanklin is just perfect for a flanker in my opinion. He is agressive, strong and constantly is hitting the ground looking for the ball. Perfect #6 :P

CJhaughey

Souless wrote:

15. Murphy
14. Lewsey
13. O'Driscoll
12. Henson
11. Thomas
10. Jones/ROG (because of line out importance ROG is perfect for kicking into touch)
9. Cuisiter
1. Jenkins
2. Byrne
3. White
4. Kay
5. O'Connell
6. Shanklin
7. Back
8. Corry/Owen

This is from what Ive seen so far anyway. Some might change after tomorrows game but doubt it.

I very much doubt whether O'gara will start any test barring injury, Jones is much better at defence compared to O'gara. His missed tackles have cost him dearly, not to mention his v. poor placekicking.
I fully agree at kicking from hand and getting the backline moving he is the best FH to date but when the AB's run at his channel and believe me they will, he will be in trouble.
Wilkinson is a spent force he looks uncomfortable and has poor kicking from hand , I would rate him even less than O'gara however SCW thinks in terms of 2 years ago when a fit wilko kicked everything that came his way and little I can see will change that.
This whole Lions outfit has the appearance of a team that is halfbaked and overprepared, the inclusion of a paranoid control freak (EOS) has done nothing to ease my mind.
I still think a 3 nil drubbing is on the cards.

rugbug86

15. Lewsey
14. Murphy
13. O' Driscoll
12. Henson
11. Hickey
10. Jones
9. Peel
1. Jenkins
2. Byrne (Only cos Thompson can't throw)
3. White
4. O' Connell
5. Kay
6. Hill
7. Back
8. Corry

Bench:
Wilkinson/Hodgeson
Cussiter
Thomas
Thompson (If the lineouts aren't working take the mullet off and put him in, better in open play)
D'Arcy
Owen

Wouldn't have Dricco as captain, he's not having the best tour of his life. Think Corry would do a much better job.

edit: I wouldn't rule O'Callaghan out of it totally either. He's played well in his games. Not a start, but he'd be good to have on the bench. Tomorrow's game will either be make or break for everyone who's on the field. They'll be the ones likely to sub next Saturday.

Souless

Trojan wrote:

No one else with me on the Hickey call?

I love hickey and think he would play well. But I really cant see him getting his starting place enfortunatly, Unless he plays the game of his life tomorrow. There seems to be some bollocks excuse that they dont think he is fast enough but id think he would give most other contenders a good running after

rugbug86

i think what it is about hickey is that he thinks he's faster than he actually is and he takes tackles when he's not expecting them and ends up losing the ball because there's not enough support there. its a combination of thinking he's faster and thinking the opponents are slower. a bit selfish with the ball but when he's on his game he's the best winger in the squad.

BogOak

while hickie is definitely the handiest homeless wino ever to chase an egg, and even taking irish bias into consideration, how can he be anywhere near your test teams? on the wing i'd take horgan, murphy, robinson, lewsey, shanklin, thomas, cueto or even that little shane williams before hickie. he's great for ireland and leinster but come on... he's not spectacular enough or enough of an all round package, or strong enough for this test series. we're up against it already with the lack of cohesion and certain smug irish captains not getting their act together. heard drico got food poisoning though and they kept it under wraps. he might still blow them away.

Souless

BogOak wrote:

while hickie is definitely the handiest homeless wino ever to chase an egg, and even taking irish bias into consideration, how can he be anywhere near your test teams? on the wing i'd take horgan, murphy, robinson, lewsey, shanklin, thomas, cueto or even that little shane williams before hickie. he's great for ireland and leinster but come on... he's not spectacular enough or enough of an all round package, or strong enough for this test series. we're up against it already with the lack of cohesion and certain smug irish captains not getting their act together. heard drico got food poisoning though and they kept it under wraps. he might still blow them away.

Heh you cant think horgan is better than hickey on the wing? Thats bloody madness. Least Hickie can catch a ball. If he couldnt do anything else that would still make him better than horgan :P Williams will be eaten alive hes to small, Robinson has been playing ****e, Shanklin I think would make a better flanker, cueto doesnt have half as much experience and Id play murphy as full back not winger.

Although horgan has had a good few games even ill admit. Butter fingers has managed to catch the ball more times than he has knocked it on Oh and he normally only gets 2 yard tries anyway and not half as creative as Dennis

Bri

I'd have to agree that Horgan is playing much more consistently than usual. I guess it's all about performing but if you consider how much he undoes his own good work he can be so frustrating to watch!

Has Lucey played on the wing in a Lions game yet?

kazzer

Really hope Hickie and D'Arcy show their class tomorrrow.

Hodgson for 10, Dawson for 9!

rugbug86

i was talkin to my uncle earlier about the match ireland played against the all blacks a few years back where horgan played really well and ireland were winning. he went off with an injury 10 mins from the end and all blacks ran in 3 trys. apparantly he played amazingly. anyone else think he might be lucky and get into the test squad?

Bri

kazzer wrote:

Dawson for 9!

Joking right?!

rugbug86

kazzer wrote:

Dawson for 9!

he shouldn't have been selected

besty

1. Jenkins
2. Byrne
3. White
4. Kay
5. O'Connell
6. Hill
7. Back
8. Corry
9. Peel
10. Wilkinson/Hodgson
11. Lewsey
12. Henson
13. B O'D
14. Robinson
15. Murphy

Poor Lions side. I really fear for a 3-0 whitewash. I hope they prove me wrong

CJhaughey

kazzer wrote:

Really hope Hickie and D'Arcy show their class tomorrrow.

Hodgson for 10, Dawson for 9!

If they show the same class they have shown all trip so far I think you can count on them being certain starters against.... Manawatu.
Dawson yeah right "Mr I am going for glory get outta my way" if the Lions play him I expect him to be turned over at least 3 times and give away a couple of stupid penno's for shoulder barging and the like.
Hodgson admittedly played well however I am not convinced that he is a big game player, if Jerry Collins runs at him a few times I reckon he might bottle it.
My pick is Peel and Jones at 9 and 10 with CH on the bench.
Henson hasn't impressed this tour with poor kicking and sideways running I can't see him beating Shanklin for the number 12 jersey.
Lewsey moved from FB to wing when Robinson came on and underperformed. Lewsey will start at 15 and possibly Geordan Murphy on wing he would have to be better than that little Welshman.
Kay and O'Connell to start at 4 and 5
Scrum will be I think Jenkins, Byrne and White
Backrow Back, Hill and Corry, Moody possible if he recovers.
O'Driscoll again at 13.

andyman

No-one else with me on Cueto then?

Chucky the tree

1. Jenkins
2. Byrne
3. white
4. Kay
5. O'connel
6. undecided
7. Back
8. Corry
9. Peel
10. Jones
11. Robinson
12. Hensen
13. BOD
14. Murphy
15. Lewsey


Cant see cueto making it, he wasnt even picked for the original squad and he hasnt done great on the tour. He will be in the wednesday nobodies team.

1. Jenkins/Sheridan(indiscipline cost him dear)
2. Byrne
3. white
4. Kay
5. O'connel
6. Jones (great game today)
7. Back
8. Corry
9. Peel
10. Wilkinson/Hodgson
11. Thomas
12. Shanklin
13. O'Driscoll
14. Lewsey
15. Murphy

If shane Williams gets near the test squad the All Blacks will be singing 3-0. He couldn't defend against the beast Rougerie, how's he going to do against wings which have stopped Rockocko from playing?

youcancallmeal

monkeyman wrote:

Your starting 15 for the 26th

You mean the 25th

MartinJ

15 Lewsey
14 Thomas
13 O'Driscoll
12 Henson
11 Robinson
10 Wilkinson
9 Peel
1 Jenkins
2 Byrne
3 White
4 Kay
5 O'Connell
6 Hill
7 Back
8 Corry

Bench: Sheridan, Thompson, Grewcock, Ryan Jones, Cusiter, Stephen Jones, Murphy.

This is who I think Woodward will pick not who I'd put there.

He'll pick Robinson, coz he's Robinson and he'll pick Jonny Wilkinson. I can't see Murphy making the XV but he does offer more cover on the bench than Williams. I know D'Arcy has had a bad season with injuries but I still can't believe how poor he's been in the matches so far. Shanklin would be unlucky to miss out being in the 22.

Bri

Well welll...

Henson, Murphy, Hickie, Owen, DOC, Easterby, Cuisiter, etc. all out of the first test squad.

Team for Tuesday:
15 Geordan Murphy (Leicester and Ireland),
14 Mark Cueto (Sale and England),
13 Ollie Smith (Leicester and England),
12 G Henson (Ospreys and Wales),
11 Denis Hickie (Leinster and Ireland),
10 Ronan O'Gara (Munster and Ireland),
9 Gareth Cooper (Dragons and Wales),
8 Michael Owen (Newport-Gwent Dragons and Wales, capt),
7 Martyn Williams (Cardiff Blues and Wales),
6 Lewis Moody (Leicester and England),
5 Donnacha O'Callaghan (Munster and Ireland),
4 Simon Shaw (Wasps and England),
3 John Hayes (Munster and Ireland),
2 Andy Titterrell (Sale and England),
1 Matt Stevens (Bath and England).

Replacements: 16 Gordon Bulloch (Glasgow and Scotland), 17 Andy Sheridan (Sale and England), 18 Simon Easterby (Llanelli Scarlets and Ireland), 19 Chris Cusiter (Borders and Scotland), 20 Charlie Hodgson (Sale and England), 21 Tom Shanklin (Cardiff Blues and Wales), 22 Gordon D'Arcy (Leinster and Ireland).

http://planetrugby.com/Tournaments/British_Irish_Lions/story_44337.shtml
http://www.rugby.ie/news/story.asp?j=9420

andyman

I dont believe it I thaught Woodward would go with Gavin Henson in centre and Murphy as a contender at FB but Michael Owen is a big shock imho

zokrez

15 Josh Lewsey
14 Jason Robinson
13 Brian O'Driscoll
12 Will Greenwood
11 Gareth Thomas
10 Jonny Wilkinson
9 Dwayne Peel
1 Gethin Jenkins
2 Shane Byrne
3 Julian White
4 Danny Grewcock
5 Paul O'Connell
6 Richard Hill
7 Neil Back
8 Martin Corry

16 Steve Thompson
17 Graham Rowntree
18 Ben Kay
19 Ryan Jones
20 Matt Dawson
21 Stephen Jones
22 Shane Horgan

23 Shane Williams to not get on either squad as number 45

- I think Jason Robinson will be big mistake.
- If Lions lose Test series, O'Driscoll will be fall guy.
- England connection & experience gets Greenwood the nod.
- SCW will not be able to resist Wilko although giving Payne.
- Bias puts Byrne in and performance the other day just gets nod if make call
- Going for Grewcock just because he is stone heavier than Kay
- English back row

Squad IS too big, crazy that this will be the first time to play together.

Nukem

Zak i think your right and come the 26th at the end of the match SCW will be wrong (hope he isn't but reckon he will be)

Nukem

KnowItAll

15 Lewsey
14 S. Williams - Great attacker. Misses tackles but opponents miss him also!
13 Bod
12 Horgan - World class player
11 Thomas - Experiance
10 Jones - O'Gara is the best kicker from hand but goal kick lets him down.
9 Peel - just shades it ahead of cusiter
1 Sheridan - All White is good for is scrummaging
2 Byrne - Forget about Thompson
3 Jenkins - Great around the park + can play at 3
4 O'Connell
5 Shaw - Aggressive in the loose
6 Hill - Need a defensive num 6. Easterby is also a good player there.
7 Back - Better than Williams but the best (O'Connor) no 7 is left home
8 Jones - Better than Corry (who is a very good player himself)

Bench
D'Arcy
Wilkinson
Murphy
Grewcock
Cusiter
White
Bulloch

Chucky the tree

wilkinson might be 12.

monkeyman

Woodward has to be bluffing. Henson, Owen and Murphy will be in the 22.

If Robinson or Wilkinson start, they can have no excuses if they lose.

Fair enough, these guys have won the World Cup and beaten NZ, but rugby is a professional game and that matters feck all these days.

BogOak

there's no bluffing. he's made it clear that they won't be in the test team. henson says he's "devastated". i think he's totally overrated anyway. i prefer corry and ryan jones to owen as well. murphy should definitely be in the squad at least. hope to god its going to be shanklin or horgan in the centre rather than greenwood.

monkeyman

monkeyman wrote:

Based on what I've seen so far, here are my definites:-

1. Jenkins
2. Byrne (Thompson is better but the lineout is key)
3. White
4. Undecided yet
5. O'Connell
6. Undecided yet
7. Neil Back (looks very sharp and his final hoorah) or Moody
8. Martin Corry (he'd want to keep the hands down)
9. Peel (in a class of his own)
10. Jones (Wilkinson unproven, and shirking some tackles)
11. Thomas
12. Henson (Darcy not doin it for me)
13. O'Driscoll (he'd want to up it a fair bit though)
14. Murphy or Lewsey (either way)
15. Murphy or Lewsey

Bench
Wilkinson
Thompson
Moody
Cussiter

Go on the piss
Hayes
O'Gara

After Saturdays game

1. Jenkins
2. Byrne (Thompson is better but the lineout is key)
3. White
4. Undecided yet (Grewcock now)
5. O'Connell
6. Undecided yet - Ryan Jones now
7. Neil Back (looks very sharp and his final hoorah) or Moody
8. Martin Corry (he'd want to keep the hands down)
9. Peel (in a class of his own)
10. Jones (Wilkinson unproven, and shirking some tackles)
11. Thomas
12. Henson (Darcy not doin it for me)
13. O'Driscoll (he'd want to up it a fair bit though)
14. Murphy
15. Lewsey

Bench
Wilkinson
Thompson
Cussiter
Easterby
Shane Williams
An Other
AN Other



.

BogOak

actually shanklin's on the bench tomorrow so i think that means he's ruled out. horgan to start?

CJhaughey

Who I think SCW will pick:
Player My Opinion
15: Lewsey No real faults
14:Thomas Solid Player
13:BOD Form not great but will start as Capt.
12:Greenwood Washed up has been
11:J Robinson Overrated and not big enough for AB's
10:JW As for Greenwood
9: Dawson Seeks Individual Glory, Danger of Turnover
1:Sheridan Good scrummager, thats it.
2:Byrne Accurate Throwing compared to ST here by default
3:White Good scrummager, thats it.
4:Kay Shouldn't start but will.
5:POC Form hasn't been good , will have to up a gear
6:Hill Getting on a bit, slower than AB's backrow
7:Back Aging small animal
8:Corry a straight Nº8 not very dynamic

Subs Thompson, Peel, Jenkins, Grewcock,Hodgson

zokrez

1:Sheridan Good scrummager, thats it.

Sheridan on other squad

Subs Thompson, Peel, Jenkins, Grewcock,Hodgson

Ditto Hodgson

CJhaughey

OK substitute G-Jenkins and Jones for the above players.
although I am looking at the fact that sCW may play Wilko at inside centre!!
That would be a move of immense folly , but hey this is woodenhead we are talking about too!! any manager that has picked a 37 year old wing forward.......hmmmm

monkeyman

CJhaughey wrote:

but hey this is woodenhead we are talking about too!! any manager that has picked a 37 year old wing forward.......hmmmm

Well Back has looked a lot sharper and did the dog work quite well when he played. They were brutal at the breakdown before he played.

BogOak

johnny o'concrete should have been on the tour. back may be playing well but he has no real competition for his position. i hope ryan jones plays instead of hill. i'll give up hope altogether if dawson plays ahead of peel, or if thompson plays ahead of byrne, or if greenwood plays at all.

andyman

Don't know if ye agree but imo the Lions are badly missing Dallaglio

CJhaughey

monkeyman wrote:

Well Back has looked a lot sharper and did the dog work quite well when he played. They were brutal at the breakdown before he played.

They are still brutal at the Breakdown IMHO, wait till McCaw , Collins and Soioalo start hitting rucks. Remember they have only been playing NPC teams up till now and they are still turning over ball. Hill has got slow and Back almost needs a Zimmer frame.

Davey Devil

New Zealand (-8 pts) are 10 - 11.

Great value, I'd say New Zealand are a good 15 pts better. Any thoughts?

zAbbo

odds are looking good for an opening test victory to NZ, considering the lions form in recent tours.

As well as looking very poor in the warmups

Pablo Honey

15 Lewsey
14 Cueto
13 O'Driscoll
12 Horgan
11 Thomas
10 Jones
9 Peel
1 Jenkins
2 Byrne
3 White
4 Kay
5 O'Connell
6 Hill
7 Back
8 Corry

KnowItAll

Davey Devil wrote:

New Zealand (-8 pts) are 10 - 11.

Great value, I'd say New Zealand are a good 15 pts better. Any thoughts?

Keep your money in your pocket. NZ are not as great as people make them out to be. South Africa hammered them last year in SA and nearly beat them in NZ. SA are a good team but would they be any match for the lions, I doubt it.

Of course it depends on who Woodward picks. If he picks the likes of Greenwood, Robinson, Thompson and Wilkinson at 12 then you can back NZ!

Davey Devil

I don't even rate NZ that highly. If they were playing South Africa it would be an even worse trashing. This is the worst Lions team ever. So many players living off past glories and even the supposed new breed are highly over-rated. Lions have no chance.

3-0 series win to NZ, -8 in the first game and -23 in the series handicap are all bankers in my opinion.

CJhaughey

All Blacks side to play the Lions on Saturday:

1 Tony Woodcock
2 Keven Mealamu
3 Carl Hayman
4 Chris Jack
5 Ali Williams
6 Jerry Collins
7 Richie McCaw
8 Rodney So'oialo
9 Justin Marshall
10 Dan Carter
11 Sitiveni Sivivatu
12 Aaron Mauger
13 Tana Umaga (c)
14 Doug Howlett
15 Leon MacDonald

Reserves
16 Derren Witcombe
17 Greg Somerville
18 Jono Gibbes
19 Sione Lauaki
20 Byron Kelleher
21 Mils Muliaina
22 Rico Gear

rugbug86

i think henson, o calaghan, cusiter and murphy did themselves no harm today with respect to starting the 2nd test...