supplements

kerinsp

Hi,
I am only just started out with kickboxing. I am in bits from all the stretching and leg work. Thats normal and its a sign of good things.

I was wondering if anyone takes supplements while training? I dont mean anything nasty, just multivitamins and possibly something like flax oil tabs to help with flexibility?

P

dudara

Flaxseed capsules and Glucosamine to help with flexibilty and joint suppleness

Clive

http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/supporting-ad-ie-supplements.aspx

The official sports council line on "supplements". Bear in mind that, if you're part of AKAI, and you decide to enter competitions one day, you are eligible for drug testing.

Many supplements (about 15%) can lead to a positive test.

If you must take a multivitamin, then take Pharmaton, since it's a registered medication and subject to stringent checks, unlike many others where they can put anything into it and don't have to declare it on the label.

My advice is to look at your diet, improve it if needs be, sort yourself out with pre or post workout snacks or whatever you need and drink bucketloads of water/sports drinks.

kerinsp

yeah I do have a pretty good diet, I was just wondering about "seven seas" type products like cod liver oil tablets etc, NOT muscle builders and weight gain rubbish. Just something to help with flexibilty and training fatigue.
thanks though
P

memphis

Water is the best medicine of all if ya ask me. Keeps you hydrated, increases concentration, and if chilled, cools you down when ya build up a sweet.

Millionaire

I take Pharmaton ( i ve been told it is one of the better vits).

Fish Oil. which is stronger tha cod liver oil.

got through phazes of Green drink, which is a powder mix in water of many green vegs and wheatgrass. Inner Light green drink.

1 shot of wheat grass + 2.5 kilos o green veg.
cancer victimes have used wheat grass and the Green Diet to cure themselves. tumors disappered totally.

Thats all the info I got but tons of stuff on the net.

EPO_MAN

Whey protein.
Get a tub that is 100% whey only...not other ****ty cheap protein.

check www.maximuscle.co.uk or I did like www.lamuscle.com are 2 i've used.
Also www.bodybuilding.com sell some good protein.


all ok for testing and sorts teh muscles out after training so you're like daly tompson 9teh old lucozade ads) the next day.

I also take multivitamin. tesco do a great one with added minerals. if you check the label it's better than any of the established brands at a fraction of the cost.
Also take Evening Primrose for my joints and fish oils -omega 3 etc..

Millionaire

EPO_MAN wrote:

Also take Evening Primrose for my joints and fish oils -omega 3 etc..

Evening Primrose..does this help creaky joints? what benefits.

me mother got very painful knee joins anything extra to help would be great!

Thanks

Dave Joyce

Definatley what the lads have said above ie plenty of water daily and also protein powers even if you're diet is good. My sister is a kinesioligist (sp?) and although I hadn't eaten red meat in about 15 years she told me I was protein deficent although I had a very healty diet and she said I needed to eat some red meat at most twice a week. Anyway I did what she said and it did make a lot of difference. Without wanting to sound like a complete *hithead, I would suggest trying Eskimo Oil which is only available in health shops and a bit pricey but better and cheaper than Glucosamine. Mind you, if you do try it make sure to only take a 5ml spoon a day.

EPO_MAN

Millionaire wrote:

Evening Primrose..does this help creaky joints? what benefits.

me mother got very painful knee joins anything extra to help would be great!

Thanks

hey,
My knees cracked everytime I went down. It never really hurt me and I trained to a high level. been like that as long as I can remember.
But anyway a girl in jujutsu who is a nurse told me that Evening Primrose would sort me out and no joke since then (3 years ago) I've heard my knees crack only once. whereas before it was daily.

I recommend tesco's stuff. They do one with 1000mg per tab it's about twice as stronger as most on the market and it's kinda cheap too.

Since then supplement are a bit of a hobby/interest to me.

if joints are a problem some of the sites I listed above do stuff that they say helps (never used it mind) most of the sites are for bodybuilding heads but I buy my whey from them cos the stuff in the shops here is muck.
I know the maximuscle one is called ache-free but can't recommend it cos I've never used it.

padraigcarroll

whey protein (try get one that doesnt have too much salt,sugar, cholestorol or bovine extracts) and soy protein mixed evenly
add mixed nuts, linseed sesame seed and pumpkin seed to your din dins too

if you can afford it get some Glutamine Peptide to mix with your protein.

dont use creatine, it doesnt do anything and can kill.

Musashi

I use whey protein from TMOF or The Ministry Of Fitness and it's good.
Cod Liver Oil for the joints as years of "Air Kicking" has fecked me knees!
Kelp extract when I'm cutting.
Pharmaton,but you don't realise the benefits until you stop using it! I'd go for a months course of multi-vit. then break for a week to let the oil soluble vits. pass out of your system though.
Creatine, I've heard all the scare stories but nothing helped my lifting like taking Creatine did! Even if you ignore the loading phase you'll top up in a couple weeks and when you finish the tub take a break and go back to it to prevent familiarisation.Ask on the fitness board for more,do a search it's been argued to death!
What I found useless were BCAA or Branched Chain Amino Acids, sure they are useful when bulking but easier and cheaper to get em from food or whey than tabs!A fairly high protein(lean sources) will do you better!
Also Ginseng and Korean Ginseng, heard great stuff about em but when I was really training hard I tried a few brands and felt no real benefits from Ginseng at all, YMMV!
Finally,Water! Best stuff ever! Get it down your neck even if it's with a drop of diluted flavour it's the best stuff for your body!Not too much as you can wash vitamins and stuff out of your body.Generally I never want to feel thirsty and my pee should be clear.Remember that Vitamin C will make your wee orange though! Ideally all vitamins should come from food but with shift work etc. supplements are a fact of life for "Hard Training Comrades" to quote Pavel "The Mad Russian"

Chucky the tree

padraigcarroll wrote:

dont use creatine, it doesnt do anything and can kill.

oh lord. :rolleyes:

kerinsp

Thanks for all the info!

Millionaire

I got this stuff once from a Tony Quinn shop, called Brain Fuel or something. it was very expensive.

I used to do a good intensive dumbbell work out and when I took this stuff. I hured the weights out of it like never before, and was happy as a pig in ****e too. ( I used to get narky sometimes on the weights) . this stuff was like rocket fuel.

It was very expensive. like 30 quid for 30 pills and u had to take 4 per work out... i think. Would love to know what was in it ...but it sure worked!

Clive

EPO_MAN wrote:

Whey protein.
Get a tub that is 100% whey only...not other ****ty cheap protein.

check www.maximuscle.co.uk or I did like www.lamuscle.com are 2 i've used.
Also www.bodybuilding.com sell some good protein.

all ok for testing and sorts teh muscles out after training so you're like daly tompson 9teh old lucozade ads) the next day.

I just want to clarify folks, these products are NOT okay for testing. Despite the assurances Maximuscle give, no sports body (ISC, UK Sport, USADA) will recommend that any athlete take them.

Similarly, most off the shelf multivitamins (pharmaton and vivioptal being two exceptions that spring to mind) are not recommended either.

EPO_MAN

padraigcarroll wrote:

dont use creatine, it doesnt do anything and can kill.

horse!

creatine is super stuff if you want muscle and strenght.
no doubt if you OD on teh stuff it'll dmage you but teh same can be said for eating too much spuds.

EPO_MAN

Clive wrote:

I just want to clarify folks, these products are NOT okay for testing. Despite the assurances Maximuscle give, no sports body (ISC, UK Sport, USADA) will recommend that any athlete take them.

Similarly, most off the shelf multivitamins (pharmaton and vivioptal being two exceptions that spring to mind) are not recommended either.

More horse!
Top drug tested sport people use these products who are drug tested.
One of them was (or claimed before anybody jumps down my throat) to be world TKD champ. The boxers in the maloney gym use their stuff too.

Sports bodys cannot recommend stuff cos they'd get shafted then in a drugs case. So to cover themselves they say a proper diet.

Do you think Daly Thompson who all those events on a good diet and bottles of lucozade!!!!

EPO_MAN

Just got an email about that TDK guy so here teh quote from it..


In the June 2005 issue of Muscle & Fitness, World champion
martial artist and movie actor Silvio Simac shatters the myth
that big muscles make you "slow."

"A lot of [martial artists] think big muscles will slow you
down," he says. "But look at sprinters - they are massive. Look
at gymnasts - they are big guys. Are they slow? If you are more
powerful your kicks are more powerful. It's like comparing a
3-litre car to a 1-litre car."

Silvac, who has worked alongside the likes of martial arts
superstar Jet Li, WWE star Rob van Dam and mainstream British
actor Bob Hoskins, uses a combination of plyometrics (which he
describes as bridging the gap between strength and speed) and
explosive training. "Because I train for speed and explosiveness
I lift the weight fast and lower it slowly," he says.

Simac, who regularly uses Promax, Creatamax 8000GL and HMB-1000
(all by Maximuscle) to maintain his incredible condition, won
four European Tae Kwon Do titles and eventually became World
champion in 1999 before retiring from the competitive side of
the sport to build a career on the silver screen.
Source: Muscle & Fitness (June 2005, page 110)

padraigcarroll

EPO_MAN wrote:

horse

Well, it's not horse......... horse
If there are gains, they are definitely outweighed by negatives, such as water retention,nausea, the scuts, cramps etc (yeah yeah i know not everyone gets them)
I read a synopsis of a clinical test using placebos etc on creatine only recently that gave pretty shocking results for creatine , including one death not directly attributed to creatine. The placebos experienced no difference in strength and enduro than the creatine users, apart from the creatine users having increased levels of skeletal creatine.

when i used creatine (prolab) i experienced no strength/endurance gains and only water retention.

Not worth it in my experience.

If you're going to part with your cash, there are better gains to be gotten with a whey/soy protein powder mix supplemented with glutamine. whey for the high bv, soy protein for the fibre to combat whey cholestorol, and glutamine coz afaik its the most common amino acid and provides big benefits (afaik)

Clive

EPO_MAN wrote:

More horse!
Top drug tested sport people use these products who are drug tested.
One of them was (or claimed before anybody jumps down my throat) to be world TKD champ. The boxers in the maloney gym use their stuff too.

LMAO! Every time an athlete takes an unregulated supplement, they are risking a positive test. Look at Geraldine Hendricken who received a two year ban after testing positive due to supplements, and the numerous cases in the UK.

15% (on average) of unregulated supplements would cause a positive test. I can post the IOC research that supports that figure if anybody wants it.

EPO_MAN wrote:

Sports bodys cannot recommend stuff cos they'd get shafted then in a drugs case. So to cover themselves they say a proper diet.

Sports bodies can and do recommend "stuff". If you ring up the Sports Council and say "I'm an athlete and I want to take a multivitamin", they'll recommend Pharmaton, Vivioptal or some other REGULATED medication.

Besides, if unregulated supplements are as safe as you suggest, then why would anybody be worried about a case?

EPO_MAN wrote:

Do you think Daly Thompson who all those events on a good diet and bottles of lucozade!!!!

Well I know John Treacy won his Olympic medal without unregulated supplements. And I know most elite level athletes are too sensible to take something that could cause them to test positive.

That's why they have nutritionists, and medical support, so they can get all they need from their diet, and if they need supplementation, to use regulated products.

Colm_OReilly

Get a decent diet and take care of yourself, and stop relying on supplement upon supplement.

Clive, can you post a link to that IOC report? I'd like to read it.

Peace Out,
Colm

Roper

Um, I reckon I'm in pretty good shape (guffaw) and I've never taken a thing outside of:
Water, good diet, red meat (in moderation), cod liver oil, bowl of fruit each morning.

Competition preperation is different, but I see guys on supplements who are never going to compete to do "better in training". Waste of time IMO.

EPO_MAN

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Get a decent diet and take care of yourself, and stop relying on supplement upon supplement.

Oh my god you know me so well!
I do eat very well and I guess i take care of myslef cos I'm never ill.(well once in a blue moon)
And guess what?
I don't take supplement upon supplement.....I take a few vitamins and whey protein which does me no end of good.

You spying on me Colm???

PJG

Millionaire wrote:

I take Pharmaton ( i ve been told it is one of the better vits).

Fish Oil. which is stronger tha cod liver oil.

got through phazes of Green drink, which is a powder mix in water of many green vegs and wheatgrass. Inner Light green drink.

1 shot of wheat grass + 2.5 kilos o green veg.
cancer victimes have used wheat grass and the Green Diet to cure themselves. tumors disappered totally.

Thats all the info I got but tons of stuff on the net.

Millionaire what brand of Green drink are you using, go you know of anyone that supplies fresh Wheat grass juice ?
cheers

tonyrogdor

In Lithuania I know man with the Sambo take the liquid of the fish.

He take it in his mouth all days. It makes him strong.

Thank yous

Tony