Jihad In Dublin

bobbyjoe

How over the top is this!!!!
http://www.jewishtelegraph.com/

IRA TARGETS ISRAEL FANS
"IRA extremists targeted Israeli football fans as Dublin was turned into a cauldron of intimidation and vitriol."

Anybody at the protest or the match?

Running Bing

Oh my god. Unbelieveable. Are some members of this board writers for that paper seriously though whats next "IRA believed to be main cause behind war in iraq"? :rolleyes:

But can anyone confirm there where people chanting Nazi salutes. I didnt hear the protest was in anyway violent on the news.If it is true it is truly hideous. If it isnt that paper should be ashamed of itself they are very serious accusations.My favourite quote is

"The presence of Sinn Fein banners, IRA supporters and Socialist Workers' members was barely concealed. A teenager, barely 16, flogged copies of Republican newspaper An Phoblacht. A Palestinian flag was draped round his back.

Floppy-haired teenagers togged out in black Nirvana and Slipknot T-shirts arrived in search of an afternoon's 'entertainment'." You would expect a jewish newspaper to be the last to use ignorant stereotypes like these and I love the way they talk about selling republican newspapers and wearing a palestininan flag as if there horrendous crimes. :rolleyes:

netwhizkid

Now i don't condone terrorism, as a matter of fact i detest it, but what can the Israelis expect anywhere they go, They are illegally ocuping another country, over reiligious belifs ! Now they suffered under Hitler and all but that dosen't give them the right to act like Hitler to the Palestinians and Muslims in the Area, Like as a Christian Country you don't see ireland or any other country for that matter marching into the holy land and taking it over. These Israelis are a bigger threat to world peace than anyone yes even dubya poses less of a threat than them. If there was a republican element involved in these protests its because they sympatise with the palestinians plight, they and the irish cause is very similar, country occupied, persecuted for religious beliefs etc.

Regards netwhizkid

bus77

I think it's a ****ing disgrace to do that to people going to a football match.

murphaph

bus77 wrote:

I think it's a ****ing disgrace to do that to people going to a football match.

Yup. I agree. It's a match and respect should be shown to our visitors.

tim3115

Respect should not be shown in certain circumstances though, no?

Red Alert

Why don't the Israeli's show respect to the wives and families of the men who they have killed or imprisoned? Together with their financial and ideological allies in the US, they act with impunity in the disputed territories. I agree they had to be let go somewhere after the second world war, but that doesn't mean that they can now oppress what was a civilisation lasting centuries.

Anybody is entitled to protest provided they act within the bounds of the law. Whether or not a soccer match was taking place on the same day makes no material difference to the legality of the protest. I deplore anti-Semitism, and all acts that stem from it such as attacking Jewish Cemeteries, Jewish Schools and the Jewish Museum. However, the Israeli population and their government (as opposed to the Jewish Religion) are a legitimate protest target, just as George W. Bush is.

oscarBravo

Red Alert wrote:

Why don't the Israeli's show respect to the wives and families of the men who they have killed or imprisoned? Together with their financial and ideological allies in the US, they act with impunity in the disputed territories.

The Israeli football team do?

I deplore anti-Semitism... However...

Here we go.

...the Israeli population and their government (as opposed to the Jewish Religion) are a legitimate protest target, just as George W. Bush is.

You missed a bit: the part where it's ok to harangue American tourists because you disagree with GWB.

Right?

murphaph

oscarBravo wrote:

You missed a bit: the part where it's ok to harangue American tourists because you disagree with GWB.

Right?

Spot on-one rule for one bunch of civilians and another for a different bunch. The fcuking football team and fans are not a legitimate target for political protests. Go protest outside the embassy, that's fine. This nonsense was out of order. Sport can be a great leveller of people and politics should stay he fcuk out of it.

I wonder how some of the pro-supporter posters on here would like being abused by people because of IRA terrorism even though they've (probably) got nothing to do with it!

Orizio

Now i don't condone terrorism, as a matter of fact i detest it, but what can the Israelis expect anywhere they go,

Respect?

They are illegally ocuping another country, over reiligious belifs !

There was no Palestian country.Do you remember the war they fought and won for that imaginary palestianian country?

Now they suffered under Hitler and all

Oh jesus... :rolleyes:

but that dosen't give them the right to act like Hitler to the Palestinians

From ridicoulus understatement to ridicoulus overstatement in one sentance.Quite an achievement.

Like as a Christian Country you don't see ireland or any other country for that matter marching into the holy land and taking it over.

Well we did see that about a half a dozen times over the last 1000 years.Nor does Ireland have any right to the holy land.Quite clearly the Jewish people do.They have history there and won a war for it.

These Israelis are a bigger threat to world peace than anyone yes even dubya poses less of a threat than them.

I'm afraid China,the US,Russia and about a dozen other countries are far more dangerous then Isreal.

If there was a republican element involved in these protests its because they sympatise with the palestinians plight, they and the irish cause is very similar, country occupied, persecuted for religious beliefs etc.

Yes i can see how some republicans would sympathise with the pals plight of blowin up jewish school buses.

Not that i would if a IRA sniper made the Isreali keeper really scream with pain...(only kidding,only kidding)

murphaph

Orizio wrote:

There was no Palestian country.Do you remember the war they fought and won for that imaginary palestianian country?

No but I remember the wars they inflicted on Egypt, Syria and Lebanon. They didn't need a war to settle Palestine cos the Brits were spineless and handed it over to 'em in '48.

Orizio wrote:

Quite clearly the Jewish people do.

One word, boll0cks. The 'Jewish people'??? What are you on? Judaism is a relgion. No poxy religion is entitled to fcuking anywhere. I'm fcuking sick of over zealous religious types going on about their birthrights. We're human beings first and foremeost, not whatever religion we happen to be BORN into. I was born into catholicism but I've since opted out cos I think it's all sh!te. Religions are just cults that catch on!

Orizio wrote:

They have history there and won a war for it.

I'm sure they made God really happy with that.

Nuttzz

murphaph wrote:

No but I remember the wars they inflicted on Egypt, Syria and Lebanon. They didn't need a war to settle Palestine cos the Brits were spineless and handed it over to 'em in '48.

When Isreal declared declared itself as an independent nation approximately 1,000 Lebanese, 6,000 Syrian, 4,500 Iraqi, 5,500 Egyptian, 6,000-9,000 Transjordanian troops and unknown number of Saudi and Yemenite troops invaded Israel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War

inflicted my ass, it was self defence

murphaph

Nuttzz wrote:

inflicted my ass, it was self defence

If they had just settled in Palestine that might have been ok, but they had to declare it 'their' land and steal it from the folks who'd lived there. Naturally the allies of the pallestinians were going to defend their right to exist where they'd existed for a long time before boat loads of zionists arrived from europe.

Call Me Jimmy

very interesting thread I think hitler salutes to the isreal fans is a tad out of order, who's to say these isrealis that came to dublin weren't against israel's 'involvement' in palestine? They're just people comin to see the game

sceptre

tim3115 wrote:

Respect should not be shown in certain circumstances though, no?

Like when, Tim? Specifically when where it involves travelling soccer supporters?

county

Call Me Jimmy wrote:

very interesting thread I think hitler salutes to the isreal fans is a tad out of order, who's to say these isrealis that came to dublin weren't against israel's 'involvement' in palestine? They're just people comin to see the game

a tad out of order,are you on drugs its totally unacceptable and if this is the case FIFA should punish tha irish FA

AmenToThat

Call Me Jimmy wrote:

very interesting thread I think hitler salutes to the isreal fans is a tad out of order,

Of course it is, assuming you believe that article.
Iv seen more objective reporting in the Sunday Independent which is saying something!

county

netwhizkid wrote:

Now i don't condone terrorism, as a matter of fact i detest it, but what can the Israelis expect anywhere they go, They are illegally ocuping another country, over reiligious belifs ! Now they suffered under Hitler and all but that dosen't give them the right to act like Hitler to the Palestinians and Muslims in the Area, If there was a republican element involved in these protests its because they sympatise with the palestinians plight, they and the irish cause is very similar, country occupied, persecuted for religious beliefs etc.

Regards netwhizkid

have the israelis gased 6 million muslims i dont think so and for the quote(country occupied) what sort of crap is that,are you a SF spokesperson or what?

sceptre

county wrote:

a tad out of order,are you on drugs its totally unacceptable

Well-known sardonic turn of phrase to mean exactly what you said, kiddo. Often phrased as "er, yeah, <brief pause> just a tad <face that says "wtf?">"

If you read the first version of this post you'd have noticed I left you off with a warning for the "are you on drugs or what" thing but for just doing basically the same thing again in your next post, regardless of my warning coming after both and effectively not being on time, you can take a two week ban for attacking posters willy-nilly. Not a playground and it's flaming that we can do without.

sceptre

Now, actually on topic, the picture on the front page there is taken from an interesting angle that shows a few people that could be on their own or surrounded by thousands of supporters. The headline is terrible ("IRA TARGETS ISRAEL FANS") given that there are plenty of idiots who support the IRA from the comfort of their armchairs who don't know any members and these would appear to be (in the absence of any other evidence) the charming individuals who are accused of doing the nazi wavey-wavey. And the Gardai appear to be investigating the incident and the alleged behaviour of their members. Not that I'm all that confident of a good investigation into the latter after events in places like Dublin city centre and county Donegal but I'd be interested to hear the extent of the incident(s) which the article doesn't bother to quantify (in favour of using the word "cauldron", cauldrons are generally pretty small in my local area).

Having said that, the actions of these particular guys were deplorable and completely unacceptable. Without knowing how many people there were doing this, though, I'll run with the expected "there are stupid people everywhere, especially here" view.

Ajnag

Oh the poor things, the humanity.
Now if only we could get our papers to publish everytime a poor person from this land was subject to abuse on the basis of nationality.

self-pity?
Im not gonna say anything lest I be called....an anti-semite :eek:
(well I couldnt be called a racist lest that offend the poor things, some forms of racism are more equal then others you know)

netwhizkid

This is an illegal occupation by the israeli army, who will take take no notice of shooting anything that is not already dead, wheter it be a 3 week old palestinian baby in a pram, or a british journalist, i vauguly remember a few yrs ago they shot a british journalist who i think later died. There was some one or two palestinians "terrorists" in the Israeli eyes, send to Ireland not so long ago there was mossad agents send here to kill them, if they succceded innocent irish bystanders could also become targets inadvertantly. Why is nearly all of the worlds wars caused by Religion ? (well modern wars are caused by crooked corporations eg. Iraq, Us oil companies bought dubya's votes for him. Millions of people have died and more will encount of Religion, As a non-practising catholic, i view this as a disgrace, i myself was brought up catholic and would never go to war against someone because of their Religion, I would however go against great evil and injustice, World Religions like Judaism is based of fiction, we have no proof, we are here like the fishes, we live and we die and thats it, Watching "The real da vinci code Documentary last night on Discovery only steadfastened by belief that all Religion is a sham, Especially catholicism, We wan't to heal relations with other religions waht do we do we make an evil-nazi pope ! Come on people its all bull so why should we fight over it. The Israeli occupation is driven by Jewish zealots and them stupid americans backing them up, I retact my previous statment, America is the greatest threat to the World :- Enviornement and Politics, they are literally ruining the world as we speak,

Regards netwhizkid

Ronan|Raven

I was at the match and witnessed what went on before the game at no time did I hear people chanting IRA related messages or Nazi Salutes. Notto say it may not have happenened but from what I heard saw in the 4 hours leading upto the game all I it seemed to be was a peaceful demonstration.

Hobbes

Nuttzz wrote:

inflicted my ass, it was self defence

so whats thier excuse for current day events?

Red Alert

An embassy is the correct place to protest, a soccer ground is not.

Israel was only created as they had nowhere to go. The Palestinian civilisation was already domiciled there. It wasn't like Ireland where the population was here already but (many) wanted independence from the UK.

It seems to be ok for people to be in favour of israel doing whatever it wants. How are they any different to the former Serbian government?

Orizio

No but I remember the wars they inflicted on Egypt, Syria and Lebanon. They didn't need a war to settle Palestine cos the Brits were spineless and handed it over to 'em in '48.

Yes i remember when they were attacked by Arab counties primarly over the plaestine and then gave them a wuping.If you were Isreali would you not have defended yourself,your families and your homes?

One word, boll0cks. The 'Jewish people'??? What are you on? Judaism is a relgion. No poxy religion is entitled to fcuking anywhere. I'm fcuking sick of over zealous religious types going on about their birthrights. We're human beings first and foremeost, not whatever religion we happen to be BORN into. I was born into catholicism but I've since opted out cos I think it's all sh!te. Religions are just cults that catch on

I should have said Isreali rather then Jewish.Does this mean the Isrealis have no rigthts over the holy land?Nope.

so whats thier excuse for current day events?

There is no excuse for the entrapment of the palestianian people by the Isrealis now.Nor is there any excuse for the near brainwashing of Pal children and the blowing up of Isreali school buses by pal 'fighters'.But the general concensus in Ireland and elsewhere is that the Pals have a moral right to fight the way they do,the romaticised feeling towards the PLO and Hamas that exists in Ireland and Europe must go.Both sides are as desperate and stubborn as each other.

Hobbes

Orizio wrote:

There is no excuse for the entrapment of the palestianian people by the Isrealis now.Nor is there any excuse for the near brainwashing of Pal children and the blowing up of Isreali school buses by pal 'fighters'.But the general concensus in Ireland and elsewhere is that the Pals have a moral right to fight the way they do,the romaticised feeling towards the PLO and Hamas that exists in Ireland and Europe must go.Both sides are as desperate and stubborn as each other.

Its not that at all, and in fact that little speech gets tiring everytime it gets spouted. Next you will be calling people anti-semetic.

Tell me what is the difference between blowing up school buses and firing missiles into a market place? Or burying people alive in thier own homes, or prehaps stealing the land since 9/11 and then giving a little back and claiming it is a sign of peace? Or how about sanctioning assasinations and pre-emptive attacks? Rounding people up and detaining them without rights.

You can go on about the horrible Hamas brainwashing the children, but when you have an enemy that is living up to that brainwashing you have to ask who is causing the problem for who.

murphaph

Hobbes wrote:

Its not that at all, and in fact that little speech gets tiring everytime it gets spouted. Next you will be calling people anti-semetic.

Tell me what is the difference between blowing up school buses and firing missiles into a market place? Or burying people alive in thier own homes, or prehaps stealing the land since 9/11 and then giving a little back and claiming it is a sign of peace? Or how about sanctioning assasinations and pre-emptive attacks? Rounding people up and detaining them without rights.

You can go on about the horrible Hamas brainwashing the children, but when you have an enemy that is living up to that brainwashing you have to ask who is causing the problem for who.

Ditto. The actions of both sides is remarkably similar however one side claims to be a sovereign democratic state and claims the other side are a bunch of terrorists.

Moriarty

I agree with parts of what you said, but other things I'm going to take issue with.

Hobbes wrote:

Tell me what is the difference between blowing up school buses and firing missiles into a market place?

The intention of the aggressors, perhaps? How often do the Israelis fire missiles into crowded markets compared to hitting militants in areas where less colateral damage can be expected? How often do palestinians blow themselves up or start shooting people down in "target rich" environments? There is a marked difference, whether you'd like to acknowledge it or not.

Hobbes wrote:

Or how about sanctioning assasinations and pre-emptive attacks?

The two sides are in a permanent state of low intensity warfare. In that sort of situation, I really don't see how assassinations or pre-emptive attacks are somehow beyond the pale.

Victor

Red Alert wrote:

An embassy is the correct place to protest, a soccer ground is not.

But the embassy is just down the street from the soccer ground ....

They have history there and won a war for it.

Since when has winning a war made someone/something right? By your logic, if the Nazis* had won WWII .....

No, that rule doesn't apply, because the Nazis were mentioned already.

Hobbes

Moriarty wrote:

The intention of the aggressors, perhaps? How often do the Israelis fire missiles into crowded markets compared to hitting militants in areas where less colateral damage can be expected?

More then anyone claiming to have the moral highground should. Lets not forget dropping bombs on apartment blocks to kill 1 person in it or putting roadside bombs in places where children play just to kill one person (and then claim Hamas did it when it kills children). But hey you can't make omellettes and all that.

There is a marked difference, whether you'd like to acknowledge it or not.

There is no difference in my opinion. Once you treat civillians as just something that gets in your way to your getting your point across you are no better then those that you fight.

The two sides are in a permanent state of low intensity warfare. In that sort of situation, I really don't see how assassinations or pre-emptive attacks are somehow beyond the pale.

And that makes them ok? I don't follow your logic here.