Important Notice for all Leaving Cert Students!

Cherry_Pie

Hi all,

Aristotle and I have been talking about the aurals this year. We're not happy with the quality of our exams. We both felt the tape could not be heard and the actually quality of the CD was not good (ie, Jumped ) which lead to having less than par exams as a result. We are going to try and do something about this, but we need to rally you guys together as well. If anyone else had any troubles with the aural exam and would like a chance to resit it (back up tape) or have this taken into consideration when it is being mark can you reply here. , Also I belive we should all read this , http://www.examinations.ie/schools/S3105UseofCompactDiscsinSchool2005.pdf , which proves the depatment knew there would be problems.Please don't spam this thread, lets keep it organised .
Name:
Problem:
Your Idea of a Solution:
Would you be prepared to write a letter of Complaint:
Or Telephone call:

Looking forward to hearing your views
Thanks
Cherry Pie

Department Head office Number : 8896400

For all those that feel the sound quality in their Irish aural wasn't good, we are suggesting that we do another aural soon after the LC. So do you think this is a good idea? And would you take part? And Have you any other suggestions?

StupidLikeAFox

Personnally, i think its a lost cause. The exam is over. I know its easy for me to say that, but i was also down the back of a big room. 5 mins in i was regretting not asking to move to the front. Now ye complained at the time, if you saw it as that big a problem i dont know why you didnt do more. Im sorry but i really think you should have got up and physically moved closer if the superintendant wasnt listening. Or better still why didnt ya say you were a little hard of hearing? I dunno, i can see it all blowing over and nobody taking you seriously. Prove me wrong though!!

EdgarAllenPoo

I heard that they had to use a different CD from the original one for the JC in the school were I'm doing the LC. Apparently the first CD was blank and the second had horrible sound quality. As for the LC a lot of people were complaining that the accents towards the end of the tape were unrecognisable so there was a lot of complaints about that but I wouldn't say anything will be done about that.

Cherry_Pie

Thats the biggest problem in the country. The 18 - 25 age group complain but do nothing. Do you know if we started voting we would probably have a government after the next elections that we do not recognise!! Stand up for yourselves. Power in Numbers! So who's with us? Complain or action!??

Con9903

I didn't notice any lapse in sound quality. Then again our leaving certs were split into a number of classrooms to maximise audibility (That a word?)

I know at least 4 schools that have complained about it, and Cherry_Pie knows some too. So it seems somthing WILL be done.

So, as I was saying, I'm asking those that DID experience bad sound quality and/or a skipping cd (in my case it was and ), and that want something done about it: Would you sit another aural if that was the case? Or do you have any other suggestions?

Scarinae

But if they were going to have another aural, wouldn't everyone in the country have to sit it? There would be two options there - they could either let you listen to the same CD, which they couldn't really do because you might have discussed it with friends and found out answers to questions you wouldn't have got, or else they would have a different CD for you, which would be impossible to have at the exact same standard as the original aural, and so people would dispute that as being unfair.

upmeath

GDM wrote:

As for the LC a lot of people were complaining that the accents towards the end of the tape were unrecognisable

Yeah the comhrá about the LC and Wimbledon saw a rather bitchy donegal student eating the head off a connacht man in a terrible donegal accent. i think it's fair to assume that nobody actually talks like that. why couldnt they throw in a few kids from leinster gaeltachts for once, rathcairn, baile ghib, and kids in gaelscoileanna?

Fishie

Fishie wrote:

But if they were going to have another aural, wouldn't everyone in the country have to sit it? There would be two options there - they could either let you listen to the same CD, which they couldn't really do because you might have discussed it with friends and found out answers to questions you wouldn't have got, or else they would have a different CD for you, which would be impossible to have at the exact same standard as the original aural, and so people would dispute that as being unfair.

Yes that's the flaw. The first option you said will definitely never happen, but there is a chance of a second, however slim it may be. Does anyone have a suggestion as to what would be suitable? And do you have any suitable suggestion Fishie? And please don't say "It's in the past. Get over it." Both the cd skipped and the sound was bad for me, and I was doing A standard work in the rest of Irish. So after all of my study, I don't want my grade to be determined by whether a room in my school is echoey or not, if you know what I mean.

Scarinae

Deleted User wrote:

Does anyone have a suggestion as to what would be suitable? And do you have any suitable suggestion Fishie? And please don't say "It's in the past. Get over it."

I wasn't going to say that, I'm not that nasty. I just think that after they changed one of the essay titles on the ordinary paper just for that school and Navan, and some people are saying this could cause legal action to be brought against the commission - imagine how much worse that would be with higher level? With higher level papers, even a few marks extra can give people those extra points for courses, so the potential for legal action is far more. I don't think you will be able to persuade them to have a resit, however, many people have been complaining about the speed of the CD not giving them enough time to write, so if enough people make formal complaints they may make the marking scheme a bit easier or something

Berger

Jeez guys let it go. Would you really fancy completing your last exam, get ready to go out and get pissed but then remember "Ah **** I have to do Irish again"? It's not gonna happen and it's a terrible idea. You're insane. It's only the Leaving Cert.

newgrange

The teacher union representatives will make a submission to the SEC if the quality of CD was poor on a large scale. All subjects have a meeting following their exam.

If the lapse in quality was just in one centre, the Superintendent should have made a note of it in his/her report, and if they did, it will be allowed for.

There is no need for candidates to complain, though it will do no harm if you wish to.

so if enough people make formal complaints they may make the marking scheme a bit easier or something

If they were going to do anything, then that's the one thing I don't want to happen. I got a max of 30% on that tape. Let's say they eased the marking scheme, it still wouldn't make much of a difference. I'd still get around 35% if I was lucky.

And I'm sure that if I did it in a different room I would have got 80-85%.

Berger

Berger wrote:

Jeez guys let it go. Would you really fancy completing your last exam, get ready to go out and get pissed but then remember "Ah **** I have to do Irish again"? It's not gonna happen and it's a terrible idea. You're insane. It's only the Leaving Cert.

I don't mean to be rude, but that's a very stupid comment. Let's say that Irish tape dropped you down two grades in your irish paper, from a B1 to a B3. And let's say you missed out on your course by 5 points. Wouldn't you be kicking yourself then?! And even worse for some people, for the people that HAD to get into that course, they would have to repeat just because they didn't complain. 10 minutes of complaining could have saved them another year of study.

Beau

Don`t know about you guys but I found the sound quality perfect and the time given to write answers sufficient.

Were you guys not given that test run? Its like an introduction to the cd and the tape is stopped when thats over and the supervisor asked us if that was ok, and it was. She also told us that if we had a problem with the sound during the exam to raise our hand and she would do her best to help you. THAT WAS THE TIME TO MAKE A COMPLAINT , I do think its to late now.

Beau

Beau wrote:

Don`t know about you guys but I found the sound quality perfect and the time given to write answers sufficient.

Were you guys not given that test run? Its like an introduction to the cd and the tape is stopped when thats over and the supervisor asked us if that was ok, and it was. She also told us that if we had a problem with the sound during the exam to raise our hand and she would do her best to help you. THAT WAS THE TIME TO MAKE A COMPLAINT , I do think its to late now.

If you read my previuos thread about the tape then you will understand the situation.

Beau

Can you give me a link please?

hada

Happened last year on a much much worse and larger scale (ranging from truly awful quality, to incoherent accents, to the speed of the actual words and to the type of vocab used) than you could ever imagine in French Higher and Ordinary Level. (This funnily enough led to the introduction of the CD as opposed to the cassette tape)

Fine make your complaints, they will be noted, but no need to get so extreme and radical about things. I think you're probably looking at 1/15 leaving certificate candidates who will agree to what you propose to do, outside of your close circle of friends that is...And that's forgetting the fact that it will be near to impossible to produce a CD of decent quality and at a suitable level to suit both Honour and Pass in the time period under consideration. Do you know how much thought and work goes into producing a CD for the Leaving Cert Examinations?

Now I appreciate your sentiment and willingness to make your point felt, but really, I think you guys should sit down and start studying for the rest of your leaving cert.

Beau

Beau wrote:

Can you give me a link please?

Oh yeah sorry. Here you go.

hada

hada wrote:

Happened last year on a much much worse and larger scale (ranging from truly awful quality, to incoherent accents, to the speed of the actual words and to the type of vocab used) than you could ever imagine in French Higher and Ordinary Level. (This funnily enough led to the introduction of the CD as opposed to the cassette tape)

Fine make your complaints, they will be noted, but no need to get so extreme and radical about things. I think you're probably looking at 1/15 leaving certificate candidates who will agree to what you propose to do, outside of your close circle of friends that is...And that's forgetting the fact that it will be near to impossible to produce a CD of decent quality and at a suitable level to suit both Honour and Pass in the time period under consideration. Do you know how much thought and work goes into producing a CD for the Leaving Cert Examinations?

Now I appreciate your sentiment and willingness to make your point felt, but really, I think you guys should sit down and start studying for the rest of your leaving cert.

Point taken. I was only giving an example of what could happen, not what should happen. And of course I know that only 1/15 of peolple will agree to what I am saying. Most people, as I've been hearing, were in small rooms, or in a large room without echos etc.

But I will still say that it is unfair. The fact that your whole grade can depend on what room you were in is disgraceful. Even if nothing is done this year when I complain, if they bring in new procedures next year then I will be happy.

segadreamcast

Deleted User wrote:

And I'm sure that if I did it in a different room I would have got 80-85%.

Well you didn't. Suck it up.

You should've protested more at the time - yet, you didn't, and now you're just overreacting.

There is no way that you could have a repeat aural in isolation - as you would be viewed as having an unseen advantage due to the relative isolation of the potential repeat exam, and thus, the extra time to study for such an exam.

NoelRock

NoelRock wrote:

There is no way that you could have a repeat aural in isolation - as you would be viewed as having an unseen advantage due to the relative isolation of the potential repeat exam, and thus, the extra time to study for such an exam.

As I said, I was just giving an example of a solution to the problem.

NoelRock wrote:

Well you didn't. Suck it up. You should've protested more at the time - yet, you didn't, and now you're just overreacting.

Try and explain that to the other at least 4,000 that are going to complain.

leggo

This is going to be one of those stories you tell your kids. But that's about all you can do with it. There's no compromise solution to Fishie's problems, and I can guarantee that the majority had no problem at all. It sucks man, but this type of stuff happens all of the time.

segadreamcast

Deleted User wrote:

As I said, I was just giving an example of a solution to the problem.




Try and explain that to the other at least 4,000 that are going to complain.

I love it when people pull random numbers out of the air to back up their facts.

I sympathise with you Aristotle in a sense - but really, this is just whining and, to be frank, I would think that most LC students are beyond that sort of thing.

NoelRock

NoelRock wrote:

I love it when people pull random numbers out of the air to back up their facts.

I sympathise with you Aristotle in a sense - but really, this is just whining and, to be frank, I would think that most LC students are beyond that sort of thing.

Yes that was just a random number, as it's going to be much higher. If you read all of this thread, you would have seen that both Cherry_Pie and myself know 8 schools that are complaining, so that's about 1,000 people already.

Scarinae

NoelRock wrote:

I sympathise with you Aristotle in a sense - but really, this is just whining and, to be frank, I would think that most LC students are beyond that sort of thing.

I agree, especially since you have been smugly telling everyone for months that you only need about 420 points... The Irish aural is worth less than 20%, it's not going to damage your prospects of getting into your course if you get a B in Irish

Murv

why couldnt they throw in a few kids from leinster gaeltachts for once, rathcairn, baile ghib, and kids in gaelscoileanna?

oh mo dhia micheáál,
táá mé comh screwed le hi an exam seo. loike... ooh mo dhia. tá sé just... dochreidthe.

segadreamcast

Fishie wrote:

I agree, especially since you have been smugly telling everyone for months that you only need about 420 points... The Irish aural is worth less than 20%, it's not going to damage your prospects of getting into your course if you get a B in Irish

Hahahaha - 465 man ...

And "smugly"? Not at all, I'm on edge about the whole thing... (though I'd imagine people who are aiming for 570 would scoff at the notion of being nervous about a 465 )

Scarinae

NoelRock wrote:

Hahahaha - 465 man ...

And "smugly"? Not at all, I'm on edge about the whole thing... (though I'd imagine people who are aiming for 570 would scoff at the notion of being nervous about a 465 )

Sorry, I should have made it clearer, that paragraph was actually referring to Aristotle

Fishie

Fishie wrote:

I agree, especially since you have been smugly telling everyone for months that you only need about 420 points... The Irish aural is worth less than 20%, it's not going to damage your prospects of getting into your course if you get a B in Irish

Ah yes, I forgot to mention that I changed it to Mathematical Science in UCD.


And I only mentioned the 420 thing in one post!!!

Fortinbras'

Aristotles'huge/ego wrote:

Y 8 schools that are complaining, so that's about 1,000 people already.

Yeah right I could just imagine 1000 people complaing, the schools wont bother, they are just trying to shut you up STOP Just move on if you only need 420 then dont worry STOP The way you are talking you could do that in your sleep STOP but then again you might just be flaunting your ego STOP
LOST helped my Leaving Cert see HERE STOP

segadreamcast

Fishie wrote:

Sorry, I should have made it clearer, that paragraph was actually referring to Aristotle

Oh, sorry about that! My fault!

Much higher than 4,000 Aristotle? Ha, you must be joking.

Scarinae

Deleted User wrote:

Ah yes, I forgot to mention that I changed it to Mathematical Science in UCD.


And I only mentioned the 420 thing in one post!!!

But isn't that still only about 450? I mean, if you got 560 in your mocks then it won't be any problem for you, I could understand if you were absolutely depending on an A in Irish but if you don't actually need it, why go to so much bother?

Fishie

Fishie wrote:

But isn't that still only about 450? I mean, if you got 560 in your mocks then it won't be any problem for you, I could understand if you were absolutely depending on an A in Irish but if you don't actually need it, why go to so much bother?

It was 520 last year, and yes I am depending on an A.

Alkers

Realisticly there isn't a solution to the problem. Maybe discarding your aural and averaging off the other parts of your paper. The choice of room, according to the document Cherry_Pie put up earlier, is all down to the school itself. The cost of extra supervisors is even covered by the exam commission. In my opinion its your school you should be complaining to.

Fortinbras'

Simona1986 wrote:

Realisticly there isn't a solution to the problem. Maybe discarding your aural and averaging off the other parts of your paper. The choice of room, according to the document Cherry_Pie put up earlier, is all down to the school itself. The cost of extra supervisors is even covered by the exam commission. In my opinion its your school you should be complaining to.

Very well said STOP
it is the school's fault STOP
just look forward leave the ego behind STOP

segadreamcast

I hope you didn't write like that in the English exam Fortinbras STOP

Fortinbras'

NoelRock wrote:

I hope you didn't write like that in the English exam Fortinbras STOP

No I drew A different telly-tubby for every full STOP
( I drew La La twice, being blond and all)

randombassist

I didn't have any difficulty in hearing the tape, and we didn't experience any skipping or similar defects. Could it be the standard of CD players in some schools that caused the problem? Also, our superintendant told us at the start to put up our hands if there was anyone who was having difficulty hearing the tape. I was wondering if you were offered that same option? If so did you avail of it?

Fortinbras'

randombass'bigtits wrote:

our superintendant told us at the start to put up our hands if there was anyone who was having difficulty hearing the tape. I was wondering if you were offered that same option? If so did you avail of it?

Is that what she was saying, I couldnt hear her, I thought it was an instruction from the tape and put up my hand STOP

Johnerr

I had a few skips on my cd aswell, but not bothered at all about it, If the amout of people you say are compliaing is correct, then, the dep will take into account the difficulty in hearing and quality of tape, and the will mark it easier or something like that, but by no means will the students have to resit an exam or will you get a chance to do it again,

Fortinbras'

Johnerr wrote:

IIf the amout of people you say are compliaing is correct, ,

THERE IS NO WAY IT IS CORRECT IGNORE HIM stop

Fortinbras'

Fortinbras' wrote:

THERE IS NO WAY IT IS CORRECT IGNORE HIM stop

What, so it's highly unlikely that 1 out of every 55 schools will complain?!

Of course not.

BraveheartGal

i found no problems with sound quality
actually it was as clear as crystal


it was difficult but not due to the quality

Haedes1987

The sound was sound and i got on sound. Is that sound or what. Sorry to all you unluccky people...............plz excuse the corn

BraveheartGal

my god!
lol

Call Me Jimmy

How would you resit the exam? they would have to make a new one for you? then it would be easier/harder? either way the leaving cert needs to be the same for everyone so i dont even kno that it would be possible

randomfella

IF u wana complain i would advise get a teacher to do it for u. There is no point doing it over the internet from an email. Its ireland, u know that people won't take emails seriously there so technologically backward. So i advise a formal phone call - asking what the procedure is for people in your situation? If theres enough people blah blah.... meanwhile cherry pie complains through a teacher if possible and if u can get anybody else.

Thats all i can think of. OR request to talk to someone important not just some secetary in an office.

Best of luck with it i think it might be possible depending on how strong u argue it. Personally if my course depended on it, i'd take it all the way maybe even meeting up with some exam commisioner etc..

Also get ur principal on ur side aswel. - might be obvious but important.

Oakbark

I can see how your argument might help students that will be sitting the exams next year, but there is no way there'll be a repeat of this year's aural paper.

I know all this the hard way, having missed exams last year due to illness, and having wrote to the Minister for Education, the Examinations Board and phoning numerous places such as CAO, etc, in an attempt to get an assessment or something to prevent repeating. But i had to repeat - its cruel but it's over and there's nothing you can do. The Exam Board will acknowledge the problem and try to prevent the same thing happening next year, but the cost of resitting a new aural - new CD scripts, new printed sheets, etc, is unviable and time consuming and costly.

Besides, i thought the CD was fair enough this year - albeit harder than last year IMO, but a fair one nonetheless.

Sorry but all's fair in love, war, and Leaving Cert Examinations apparently.

Edit: Oh, and for anybody that couldn't hear the tape properly due to an echo or distance from the CD player, what stopped you from speaking up? Surely you weren't stupid enough to be influenced by peer pressure during the exams, were you? Were you afraid of looking fussy? Grow up people.

Gone West

look. you did badly in the aural. let it go.
The examiners have to ask everyone if they can hear the tape, and if it is to their satisfaction. They do this after the introduction. If someone can't hear it, the examiner will turn up the sound or switch to a cd player, or a better tape deck.

There is absolutely no way in hell the exam comm. will stray from protocol on this.