Pressure Points!

pma-ire

Due to this plonker... :mad:

http://www.subfighter.com/modules.php?name=Digital_Goods&op=getdetailed&lid=1118&osCsid=7d9774fd2dfa7c46ec803cb9ba4655a3


Making a fool of himself on a FOX news channel! And some other people in this very country giving seminars on PP's for crazy prices because they cloud them in mystery and Cac-taribh (irish for BS ).

I made an offer (on another site!) to send on by email, charts of PP's along with striking information for the most effective ones and the ones I use myself. This was so that anyone could take a look at them and have a go at learning the locations and type of strikes that are required.

As it is best for the person to learn and locate the points and then see then fit into there own delivery system. Some people have took this offer up.

But if anyone else would like me to forward them these emails then please contact me and I will send them on. Also if you need to ask me any questions on them then please don't hesitate to ask me!!

This is FREE and is a open offer to share what I have learnt over the last 8 years I have been researching and training with this part of the MA through my first introduction to the basic point by my TKD instructors then Kung Fu and then Hap Ki Do. I have now been backing this up with training from Prof Clark over the last year.

So lets cut through the Cac-taribh and at least I will answer any questions put to me and not ignore or insult your inteligence.

nesf

Could you mail them on to me?

I've an interest in their location with respect of accupunture and accupressure points. I've noticed "simularities" in the past. Never the same position, but slightly different. I just want to see if it holds for more than the basic pp's that I'm aware of.

Talliesin

Why not just stick it on the web rather than mail each time?

nesf

He might want to "vet" the people who he distributes it to.

If he posted it up on the web then some idiot might do something stupid and he'd be indirectly responsible.

Sure there would be one less idiot in the world, but he might feel bad about it or something.

pma-ire

nesf wrote:

Could you mail them on to me?

I've an interest in their location with respect of accupunture and accupressure points. I've noticed "simularities" in the past. Never the same position, but slightly different. I just want to see if it holds for more than the basic pp's that I'm aware of.

nesf,

Can you email me? I don't remember your addy and can't find it in my list??

pma-ire

Talliesin wrote:

Why not just stick it on the web rather than mail each time?

I would like to maybe get the names of those getting these mails alright?

If peebs want to check out the site it's...

http://www.yinyanghouse.com/

Though I don't go in for the TCM explaination. Someone might find it interesting??

nesf

pma-ire wrote:

I am using stolen charts from a TCM website.

But they are the best I've seen on the net. And they have been lockedf by the webmasters.

So to be careful, I won't post them on the net. I am not trying to make them a secret!!!!!

If peebs want to check out the site it's...

http://www.yinyanghouse.com/

Though I don't go in for the TCM explaination. Someone might find it interesting??

*Bookmarks site*

Thanks for the link mate. E-mail sent.

memphis

Ok guys, not to be ignorant or rude, but more so to be honest.... I checked out the link above, and to me its double dutch, couldn't make head nor tail of it (no pun intended).

Correct me if I'm wrong but you'd really wanna be into accupuncture, and PP's to follow it.... yes??

Millionaire

ya know George Dillman and pressure point knock outs. does that stuff really work?

Could it be applied in a street situation where arms and bodies are moving like crazy/

seems ok when demo on someone standing still, but in heat of street situations could it work????

pma-ire

memphis wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but you'd really wanna be into accupuncture, and PP's to follow it.... yes??

NO!! Is anyone reading what I am saying???

Though I don't go in for the TCM explaination. Someone might find it interesting??

The Link is where I found the most clear charts of the points. I don't have clue about accupuncture as you don't need it!

I am emailing the pics and some comments about hitting the ones that are most open to martial arts. If you want them let me know?

pma-ire

Millionaire wrote:

ya know George Dillman and pressure point knock outs. does that stuff really work?

Well Rick trained with Dillman for years when Dillman was getting started. But they fell out (as many do with Dillman??). Some people are very open to being KO'd the action curve is about 70%. Do you remember the moive of the pimp getting KO'd with a reverse whack under the jaw? that was PP strike. There are a few others that will get you TKO's if hit.

The stuff they do in movies of KO's on the net are a bit naff, and I don't think these guys really pressure test anything??

Millionaire wrote:

Could it be applied in a street situation where arms and bodies are moving like crazy/

You don't have to change your delivery system to affect PP's. You just need to have one!!

Millionaire wrote:

seems ok when demo on someone standing still, but in heat of street situations could it work????

This why I am sending out this information for people to try locate them and see where they might fit into there delivery system? If you block a strike or hit the body with strike of your own then little to no adjustment has to be made to hit a point. It's just a case of knowing the locations.

nesf

pma-ire wrote:

It's just a case of knowing the locations.

I'd argue that knowing how to strike/manipulate them is more important. Although in fairness you did go through that in your emails.

I would be interested in discussing various means of "getting" at them. Probably difficult to do online though without being able to demonstrate it.

paul moran

In fairness, how can anybody prove the points work without a volunteer, firstly, to stand there allowing you to hit the points and secondly once you know the effects trying to pressure test it?? That was the question asked by the Japanese when they conquered China. They documented their pressure point experiments on Chinese prisoners, killing and maiming many in the process, these documents have been bought and translated but have not been published in accordance to the advice of the currents owners legal team. Anybody teaching or publishing pressure point information have a moral responsibility for any mishaps.

I have no fools in my club who would volunteer to allow pressure point strikes and I would feel moraly wrong in striking points in sparring whereby the potential effects could be devastating or most likely unknown to those trying it. Oh ye and what about if someone here does try it and it did work and you have feck all knowledge on the subject?? How are they supposed to respond if, for example, they shock a liver or cause an Aneurysm???? :mad:

I know pp's work as the same combat points are used in acupunture for health purposes and have been scientifically proven to have an effect on the internal organs when manipulated, but why do people feel the need to broadcast information about such things to people who firstly will only want to debunk the theories without the practical experience and secondly those who spend enough time in the traditional arts will most likely learn the pressure point info as part of the course anyway!! So leave to them to seek the info themselves through a qualified teacher and not from some watered down website.

pma-ire

nesf wrote:

I'd argue that knowing how to strike/manipulate them is more important. Although in fairness you did go through that in your emails.

I would be interested in discussing various means of "getting" at them. Probably difficult to do online though without being able to demonstrate it.

Yes knowing the ways of hitting them is important and they are on the emails.

I have not and will not try to explain striking applications on those emails as they are as varied as you can find ways of hitting them!! Though there are ways that are well known of getting to the main ones and what I have found through application of supposed useless Kata moves.

But if anyone has any questions the emails I have sent please email me back and we can try and work it out

pma-ire

paul moran wrote:

In fairness, how can anybody prove the points work without a volunteer, firstly, to stand there allowing you to hit the points and secondly once you know the effects trying to pressure test it??

You can learn locations on yourself! If you have a willing partner then then on others. I have said to push, press or rub first. But yes pressure testing has to be done to learn how to apply points in a real enviroment. KO's are not the end result all the time. Nor is organ damage the reason we hit points. I practice Reiki and am studying Shiatsu. Yet I still don't really go with the smoke and daggers thing about PP's.

paul moran wrote:

That was the question asked by the Japanese when they conquered China. They documented their pressure point experiments on Chinese prisoners, killing and maiming many in the process, these documents have been bought and translated but have not been published in accordance to the advice of the currents owners legal team. Anybody teaching or publishing pressure point information have a moral responsibility for any mishaps.

I'm sure that they would make very interesting reading!! As would this document that Rick came across.

http://www.ao-denkou-kai.org/delayed_death_touch.htm

paul moran wrote:

I have no fools in my club who would volunteer to allow pressure point strikes and I would feel moraly wrong in striking points in sparring whereby the potential effects could be devastating or most likely unknown to those trying it. Oh ye and what about if someone here does try it and it did work and you have feck all knowledge on the subject?? How are they supposed to respond if, for example, they shock a liver or cause an Aneurysm???? :mad:

Hitting PP's all night every night is not good for your development nor would over doing any other parts of your martial art. I hav'int seen anyone get organ shock yet? Some people will be affected to TKO's more than cold KO's as I've never seen a full on KO by anyone!!

paul moran wrote:

I know pp's work as the same combat points are used in acupunture for health purposes and have been scientifically proven to have an effect on the internal organs when manipulated, but why do people feel the need to broadcast information about such things to people who firstly will only want to debunk the theories without the practical experience and secondly those who spend enough time in the traditional arts will most likely learn the pressure point info as part of the course anyway!! So leave to them to seek the info themselves through a qualified teacher and not from some watered down website.

I totally respect your point of view on the subject Paul. But there are people trying to make a small fortune at making PP's into a big secret because they are covered with this vail of mystic smoke, and they say that you have to either a very high ranking black belt or pay them loads of money to learn this art.

All training is at your own risk! Any of these people can search the net and find point charts and print them off and have a go at them. I am know that you are saying that people are trying to debunk PP's. But the more quite we are about the information the more reason that people will think the whole thing is BS.

nesf

To be fair. (In my experience)

PPs are no more dangerous than teaching a person how to strike properly but not teaching them which areas to not strike unless it's life or death.

If one more person tells me to strike directly at the windpipe as a reaction to someone trying to "brawl" with me I'll scream.

pma-ire

nesf wrote:

PPs are no more dangerous than teaching a person how to strike properly but not teaching them which areas to not strike unless it's life or death.

If one more person tells me to strike directly at the windpipe as a reaction to someone trying to "brawl" with me I'll scream.

Hitting the windpipe is crazy when there are other points on the neck and throat area that can be just as effective and not as damaging.

nesf

pma-ire wrote:

Hitting the windpipe is crazy when there are other points on the neck and throat area that can be just as effective and not as damaging.

I agree completely.

Yet I've heard many people talk of it as a legitimate "self defence" reaction in situations where a simple punch would be fitting.

There is a lot of bull**** surrounding martial arts. Some of it potentially dangerous.

That said, striking to the windpipe is legitimate when, as an old instructor of mine used to say, "It's either going to be you or him in intensive care tomorrow morning".

This situation doesn't ever occur for most people. Thankfully.

Musashi

On striking the windpipe or eyes or other sensitive asnd possibly lethal spots.
I teach female members to strike these if assaulted as a woman being dragged down a dark alley is a different situation to a young guy getting in a pissing match over soccer or something.
That said,a woman striking to the throat over who does the wash up ,or a young guy being jumped in a "gay bashing incident" ? I want folks to know what can be done and when it is appropriate response to take possibly lethal shots.
The PP are another part of the arsenal,or toolbox if you prefer? Some will take to high roundhouse kicks,some love joint locking,PP striking or head butting.Why limit your learning? Take it all in and then make an informed choice as to what is the best "fit" for your style and art?
Also PP hurt beyond the force being put into em! When you need to get a guys attention but can't justify breaking something...............a PP strike or three may be just the ticket?

memphis

Now this is something I can relate to. The whole hitting a guy in the windpipe or eyes, etc is quite effective if ya ask me. It wouldn't be a move I'd use where a guy is mouthing on about MA being for pussies, or Tipperary being crap in GAA, etc, but as Musashi is saying above, it can prove quite effective in a self defence situation where a girl is being dragged down an alley way, etc.

pma-ire

Musashi wrote:

On striking the windpipe or eyes or other sensitive asnd possibly lethal spots.
I teach female members to strike these if assaulted as a woman being dragged down a dark alley is a different situation to a young guy getting in a pissing match over soccer or something.
That said,a woman striking to the throat over who does the wash up ,or a young guy being jumped in a "gay bashing incident" ? I want folks to know what can be done and when it is appropriate response to take possibly lethal shots.
The PP are another part of the arsenal,or toolbox if you prefer? Some will take to high roundhouse kicks,some love joint locking,PP striking or head butting.Why limit your learning? Take it all in and then make an informed choice as to what is the best "fit" for your style and art?
Also PP hurt beyond the force being put into em! When you need to get a guys attention but can't justify breaking something...............a PP strike or three may be just the ticket?

Yes Mush! There is a time and place to be hitting the windpipe, and knowing the full compliment of responces available to a bi-ped is very important.

pma-ire

memphis wrote:

Now this is something I can relate to. The whole hitting a guy in the windpipe or eyes, etc is quite effective if ya ask me. It wouldn't be a move I'd use where a guy is mouthing on about MA being for pussies, or Tipperary being crap in GAA, etc, but as Musashi is saying above, it can prove quite effective in a self defence situation where a girl is being dragged down an alley way, etc.

And also Mush said ...

Also PP hurt beyond the force being put into em! When you need to get a guys attention but can't justify breaking something...............a PP strike or three may be just the ticket?

PP's can be applied by little people on big people also!!

And in most cases the result outweights the effort. Though if a girl is attacked by a man then I do think she could say she was in fearof her life and go for the windpipe or another vital organ strike. Many police forces use PP's to control situations as they can be a quick ground leveller that don't have to result in broken bones or skin!!

Roper

At this stage, I'd say most people here know my opinions on PP and the training that surrounds them. I'm not in any way trying to rile people here when I say this but....

If I were an average joe coming on to to this site for the first time and I read this topic, I would think, who are these people who talk about being beaten up and lethal death strikes? What happened to them when they were younger? TBH, I think this is all a bit odd. I'm not trying to debunk the existence of pressure points or anything of the sort, if you want to train in them (if you can) then off you go. I just think there are far fewer ancillary benfits to training of this sort than in any actual physical pursuit.

I'm not going to name check or anything, but I was at a seminar earlier this year and a question was asked about self defence to the guy taking it. His response was that heart disease is a far greater killer than "the street" but self defence oriented trainers spend less time on fitness and general cardiovascular health than combat athletes. So if you think about it, it could be said therefore that these athletes are already better at self preservation than their SD counterparts.

I know I know, one day I might be hopped on or someone close to me the same or whatever, and this is the self defence forum. But the more I read discussions like this the less I want to be involved in this kind of training.

Paul PMA,
This was your topic so I know it looks like I'm getting at you personally. I'm not. I respect your reasons for starting the topic, but once again it's where it's gone since that's the bee in my bonnet. All pressure point discussions seem to end up this way.

pma-ire

Roper wrote:

Paul PMA,
This was your topic so I know it looks like I'm getting at you personally. I'm not. I respect your reasons for starting the topic, but once again it's where it's gone since that's the bee in my bonnet. All pressure point discussions seem to end up this way.

Indeed they do.

I have made this offer to all!! So that people can see what PP's are. Places that hurt when hit!!

And after looking at the charts some people might realise that they had always known a few points but did not think that they were PP's due to the crap that surrounds them.

ie. they will all KO the attacker, they only need to be feather touched, or some will kill the attacker.

On the issue that was brought up about hitting the windpipe!!

I would never go for it myself!! Because I would be Fu*Kd if a guy ended up in hospital no matter how severe his attack was on me. I know a few other places to hit around the head and neck (as well as the jaw :rolleyes: ) that will get me a nice reaction.

As I have said before. They will not make you a better fighter. You still have to train in a delivery system.

About Self Defence headsnot doing much cardio! I have to say that I am a Fat Bastich and have been most of my life!! But it don't mean that I can't train to defend myself or teach others ways of doing the same!!

I have not answered your post as an attack back either man! Just answering the comments. Which is more than can be said about some other Pp's instructors. :mad:

Millionaire

Paul

Can I have a copy, I think you got my email g4ie@yahoo.com

This is something PP I must read up on now.

Thanks

G

pma-ire

Millionaire wrote:

Paul

Can I have a copy, I think you got my email g4ie@yahoo.com

This is something PP I must read up on now.

Thanks

G

Yahooooouuuuoooooo!!! You got loadsa mail

mark.leonard

Paul I am going to be in Cork in a couple of weeks on a Sunday, would we be able to get a training session in?

pma-ire

mark.leonard wrote:

Paul I am going to be in Cork in a couple of weeks on a Sunday, would we be able to get a training session in?

What date??

I'm going away for the weekend with the family in two weeks time !!

mark.leonard

It will be Sunday the 26th.

pma-ire

mark.leonard wrote:

It will be Sunday the 26th.

I'll be around then alright!

Were going away the week before.

Will you have someone with you to pressure test? Cause There's no way I could keep up with ye boys at the moment