KanYe West

Dyaso

What do you all think of him compared to others out there. i personally think he is one of the best rap/hip hop artist around. College Dropout is a brilliant album and nearly every song is great. his lyrics are top class to. his new album is comin out this summer. :cool:

David19

He's alright. College dropout was pretty good. New album on the 26th of June.

0utshined

He's okay if you're into that thing.

Personally I turned right off him when I was listening to the lyrics to "All falls down" and more specifically the lines

We shine because they hate us, floss cause they degrade us
We trying to buy back our 40 acres

40 acres and a mule? Get over it kid. If it was ever meant to be the case it's been 150 years since the war so you're owed nothing. Nor am I, nor is anyone else.

Also the line

Drug dealer buy Jordans, crackhead buy crack
And a white man get paid off of all a dat

The white man still keeping you down? :rolleyes:
The world is what you make of it so stop bitching.

Maybe I've gone off topic here but I cba listening to that.

Johnson

I like his stuff, but as the poster above mentioned, his blaming of many problems on "the man" in some of his songs does grate a little. Also, his method of production isn't the best. He gets a lot of acclaim for using soul samples, but all he seems to do is take a hook and speed it up. If you listen to the songs he sampled, it takes a bit of the shine off his songs.

He's a good video director though. The Corner video is very good.


His new album is actually coming out on the 12th of July.

Kristok

0utshined wrote:

The white man still keeping you down? :rolleyes:
The world is what you make of it so stop bitching.

150 years ? black people in america still live in the poorest areas as a direct result of slavery. Reperations where never paid and are never likly to be. The people making the most money out of drugs are usually white drug dealers high up in the chain yet the people going to jail for it are black people. Its easy to say the world is what you make it but when youve no money and from a poor area unless your really smart your likly going to be stuck there. I dont think its really anyones place to say get over it, why dont we just get over nothern ireland ?!?

And as for kanye hes one of the best producers and his album was pretty much one of the best albums last year. Just hope his new one is as good.

0utshined

Kristok wrote:

150 years ? black people in america still live in the poorest areas as a direct result of slavery.

I disagree, whatever the reasons for some people living in poor areas I don't believe you can blame events that happened 150 years ago for your situation today.

Kristok wrote:

Reperations where never paid and are never likly to be.

And shouldn't be. Why should anyone receive money for an injustice that may or may not have occured to one of their ancestors a century and a half ago? The US has a long history of immigration, how many of todays black Americans had ancestors in the country back then? Should people today get a payment based purely on their ethnicity? To me the whole idea is absurd.

Kristok wrote:

The people making the most money out of drugs are usually white drug dealers high up in the chain yet the people going to jail for it are black people.

While drugs are illegal anyone involved in dealing or distributing them is liable to be arrested and go to jail. Even those at the top can be and are tried and sentenced. To say that those controlling the drugs trade are primarily white is hearsay and even if it is the case doesn't protect them from facing charges and doing time.

Kristok wrote:

Its easy to say the world is what you make it but when youve no money and from a poor area unless your really smart your likly going to be stuck there.

Yes it's very easy and what's more it's true. You're born into this world with nothing and you're owed nothing. Nobody is. It's up to you to try and make something of your life rather than sit back, do nothing and make excuses.

Kristok wrote:

I dont think its really anyones place to say get over it, why dont we just get over nothern ireland ?!?

I'm making it my place, he should get over it. Northern Ireland is a completely different situation and not comparable.


Before this goes completely off topic I would agree that he is a talented producer though certainly not the best by a long shot but as I said before I don't like his lyrics and it's not something I will pay money to hear. If you want to talk about the other points please start a thread in politics and I'd be happy to talk to you there.

marshmallow

First of all, I'd like to say Kanye is a great artist.

As he is an artist he is making his opinion through his music and lyrics. It may not be a good one but everyone is entitled to their opinions. You can't discriminate against him because he is black..

0utshined

marshmallow wrote:

As he is an artist he is making his opinion through his music and lyrics. It may not be a good one but everyone is entitled to their opinions. You can't discriminate against him because he is black..

You know what marshmallow, that is a very good point. I would like to say though that no-one here is dicriminating against him on the basis of his skin. My problem is with his lyrics not his colour.

jesus_thats_gre

marshmallow wrote:

You can't discriminate against him because he is black..

Where did that come from.. boom!!

Makaveli

Indeed, where did that come from?

marshmallow

okay, sorry!
impression I got from 1 or 2 of the posts.. guess not..

Tha Gopher

Could barely give 2 sh1tes about Kanye tbh. His production is alright, but not amazing. He puts on a sh1t overpriced too short show. College Dropout was nothing at all special, Jesus Walks was the only absoloutely brilliant track I recall


And does anyone else get the feeling that if a white rapper from one of the best parts of Chicago, who has a mother who is a professor and dropped out of university, made an album with references to welfare fraud and moving large amounts of cocaine, he would be slagged mercilessly?

jesus_thats_gre

The whole black card ****t does rub me up the wrong way but if thats his thing, thats his thing.. The "blacks" in America are still one of the poorest groups in America so it is fair to assume that that is going to infuence some of their music.

About 4 or 5 tracks on the album are pretty impressive if I remember correctly. I personally think the track with Jay Z is the best but I am slightly biased..

jesus_thats_gre

marshmallow wrote:

okay, sorry!
impression I got from 1 or 2 of the posts.. guess not..

Probably the best option that

chicken_food

His vinyl release - Freshman Adjustment is in a league of its own. Im a huge fan of his and even got to meet him when he came over. He's down to earth and a genuinely nice person. Great producer,has a huge list of colaborations and production credits to his name. For someone only doing it for a few years hes amazing.

Kristok

0utshined wrote:

I'm making it my place, he should get over it. Northern Ireland is a completely different situation and not comparable.

Yes I agree with you completly the enslavement of millions of africans is just a drop in the ocean compared to northern ireland (thats sarcasim btw) How long have the brits owned the north ? More than 150 years and we cant even get over that yet you expect black people to forget slavery.

I dont think reperations are a good idea but allot of black people feel it is and they are the ones whos familys it affected. There are still allot of major american companies who can trace their success back to the days of slavery and the cheap labour labour it gave them.

Black americans may not have been slaves for over a decade but only 40 years ago where still considered second class citizens even in the eyes of the law.

Most people are not able to move away from their family and freinds no matter how bad the situation is and only a small ammount of people will ever move away.

0utshined wrote:

Before this goes completely off topic

I think it may have already gone past that point.

FTA69

I disagree, whatever the reasons for some people living in poor areas I don't believe you can blame events that happened 150 years ago for your situation today.

People end up in deprived circumstances because that is what they were born into. The reason they were born into it is usually because their parents were born into such poverty as well. In generational terms 150 years is not that long ago. The reason so many black people live in poverty is because they always have been the downtrodden and subjugated race within the USA (along with Hispanics and Native Americans). There has been a continuous, unbroken chain of deprivation since the end of slavery and ultimately slavery (and the failure to reparate afterwards) is the reason behind it all. It is not a mass coincidence of spontaneous births into poverty. Of course it should be said that white working class people often suffer the same levels of poverty.

The US has a long history of immigration, how many of todays black Americans had ancestors in the country back then?

Nonsense, immigration into the US has predominantly come from Europe, China and Latin America, African immigration was minute compared to these. Also, why do you think the vast majority of blacks have white names? Because the majority of blacks are of slave ancestry, that's why. You should research your argument more.

While drugs are illegal anyone involved in dealing or distributing them is liable to be arrested and go to jail. Even those at the top can be and are tried and sentenced. To say that those controlling the drugs trade are primarily white is hearsay and even if it is the case doesn't protect them from facing charges and doing time.

I agree with you here, drugs are an individual thing and are not the preserve of a race. However, it is a fact (look at our own country) that deprivation leads to drug addiction and since blacks have the highest deprivation levels they will have the highest drug addiction levels. The system inflicting this deprivation happens to be controlled by white people.

You're born into this world with nothing and you're owed nothing.

Except some are born into a world of gated housing and private schools while others are born into council estates with substandard facilities where they live in a two-tiered system that discriminates against them. Have you ever given a council flat block as your address when you apply for a job? This society is not equal so don't pretend that it is.

Northern Ireland is a completely different situation and not comparable.

The main driving factor of the war in Ireland was poverty and social oppression. Again, research your argument.

0utshined

Kristok wrote:

Yes I agree with you completly the enslavement of millions of africans is just a drop in the ocean compared to northern ireland (thats sarcasim btw) How long have the brits owned the north ? More than 150 years and we cant even get over that yet you expect black people to forget slavery.

Please don't try and put words in my mouth, I never said that and would never say that. Despite your sarcasim(sic) you've completely missed my point. When I said that they were not comparable I was referring to the fact that slavery in the US is an historical event whereas the dispute over governing the North is an ongoing political situation. Kanye wasn't enslaved, nor was his father, nor was his grandfather and dare I say it nor was his great-grandfather so why look to get compensated for something that hasn't affected him or any of his living relations or relatives that have lived in his lifetime. I don't expect anyone to forget slavery and I would certainly hope that no-one does so it isn't repeated but I also don't believe that anyone living in the U.S. deserves any financial compensation for that part of their histroy.

Kristok wrote:

I dont think reperations are a good idea but allot of black people feel it is and they are the ones whos familys it affected.

And there are a lot that don't. To be honest your argument here just doesn't make sense. Are you saying that some people who would be financially compensated by a favourable decision are saying that they want that decision to be made in their favour? If you are I would have taken that as a given for the most part. Who wouldn't want free money? Very few I would have thought. That doesn't mean it's the correct decision. Might is not right.

Kristok wrote:

There are still allot of major american companies who can trace their success back to the days of slavery and the cheap labour labour it gave them.

I'll admit that I'm not aware of this but I'd like to know more. Can you provide the names of any of these companies and/or their actions during the slavery era? I would appreciate links as I'd like to know more about this.

Kristok wrote:

Black americans may not have been slaves for over a decade but only 40 years ago where still considered second class citizens even in the eyes of the law.

And that was terrible and I would hope it is no longer the case. What's your point?

Kristok wrote:

Most people are not able to move away from their family and freinds no matter how bad the situation is and only a small ammount of people will ever move away.

Some people won't try and leave a bad situation, some will. What's that got to do with what we're talking about here? I'm saying that that people can make something of their lives no matter what situation they're born into. You don't have to desert your family to do this.

Kristok wrote:

I think it may have already gone past that point.

Quite possibly. If you want to discuss this further please start a thread in politics.

Going back on topic, I think Kanye is doing himself a disservice by soming out with defeatist lyrics that only serve to alienate some of his audience.

Dyaso

freshman adjustment is a brill album, lot of brill songs ie. hey mama, livin a movie and he also has a lot of great other songs unrelesed. i personally think je is a good producer, he has done a good job with john legend and helpin common along also. his lyrics r just lettin poeple now what he thinks.

0utshined

FTA69 wrote:

People end up in deprived circumstances because that is what they were born into.

Wow, what a defeatist attitude. Are you saying that if I was born into poverty that's where I have to stay and I should accept my station in life? That's what it sounds like and I completely disagree. You can be born into a bad situation and rise above it.

FTA69 wrote:

The reason they were born into it is usually because their parents were born into such poverty as well. In generational terms 150 years is not that long ago.

150 years IS a long time.

FTA69 wrote:

The reason so many black people live in poverty is because they always have been the downtrodden and subjugated race within the USA (along with Hispanics and Native Americans). There has been a continuous, unbroken chain of deprivation since the end of slavery and ultimately slavery (and the failure to reparate afterwards) is the reason behind it all. It is not a mass coincidence of spontaneous births into poverty. Of course it should be said that white working class people often suffer the same levels of poverty.

Your argument is flawed. Two events can exist without there being a causal relationship between them.

FTA69 wrote:

Nonsense, immigration into the US has predominantly come from Europe, China and Latin America, African immigration was minute compared to these. Also, why do you think the vast majority of blacks have white names? Because the majority of blacks are of slave ancestry, that's why. You should research your argument more.

It's not nonsense. I did not say that the majority of black Americans today came from Africa. Taking your assertion that a lot of immigration to the U.S. came Europe and Latin America as fact that would still allow a large number of present day black Americans to trace their roots to France, Holland and Britain as well as their former colonies. Latin America is not populated exclusively by caucasians. Colombia, Cuba and Brazil spring to mind though I'm sure there are more. Perhaps you should consider your own argument more carefully?

FTA69 wrote:

I agree with you here, drugs are an individual thing and are not the preserve of a race. However, it is a fact (look at our own country) that deprivation leads to drug addiction and since blacks have the highest deprivation levels they will have the highest drug addiction levels.

I'll grant you that people from more deprived areas are possibly more susceptible to drug addiction but I still believe that everyone needs to take responsibility for their own actions. If a person chooses for whatever reason to sell drugs and gets charged with that they can't, or rather shouldn't blame their own decision on racism.

FTA69 wrote:

The system inflicting this deprivation happens to be controlled by white people.

Is it? I would love to see your facts on this. Maybe you're right, I don't know and I'd wager that neither do you. Regardless, the people at the top of a drug chain are also liable to face prosecution whatever their colour.

FTA69 wrote:

Except some are born into a world of gated housing and private schools while others are born into council estates with substandard facilities where they live in a two-tiered system that discriminates against them. Have you ever given a council flat block as your address when you apply for a job?

I haven't but my friends have. I know people who have grown up in D4 and gone to private schools who have been on the Dole for a couple of years. At the same time I have friends who grew up in disadvantaged areas of Dublin who have worked hard and now earn more in a year than I'll probably see in 5. And they deserve it. They've worked hard and didn't have a defeatist attitude.

FTA69 wrote:

This society is not equal so don't pretend that it is.

You're damn right it's not. Reread my posts, I never claimed it was. I said when your born you're owed nothing and you've got to work to get anything. It may be harder for some people depending on your environment when as you grow up but it is not impossible.

FTA69 wrote:

The main driving factor of the war in Ireland was poverty and social oppression. Again, research your argument.

Please see my previous post. You have made an assumption about what I meant and are incorrect in that assumption.

Kristok

My point is that kanye as do all black americans have a right to talk about slavery and in no way should get over it just cause it happened before they where born.

Your arguments are all over the place either they should get over it or they have a right to have to be pissed which is it. The fact that you dont understand why the civil rights movement affects modern day america shows just how uninformed your views are. The world is not fair or equal and is very racist under the pc surface.

As for what companies benifited from slavery you can google that if you really want to know.

Im not interested in starting a thread in politics youve started this discussion by saying kanye should get over it all im saying is he has a right to not get over it and these are some of the many reasons why.

Im not trying to say your stupid or anything I see what your saying its just your views are only looking at the surface and completly overlooking the greater historical and political causes.

0utshined

Kristok wrote:

My point is that kanye as do all black americans have a right to talk about slavery and in no way should get over it just cause it happened before they where born.

That may be your point but that wasn't what you said when you came on the thread. You took it off-topic into a discussion on slavery and it's effects in the U.S. I would go further and say that ALL americans have a right to talk about slavery and should talk about it. The worst thing that could happen is that it would be ignored. I still stand by my initial point that I don't want to listen to lyrics about how he feels he is owed something because slavery occured in the past.

Kristok wrote:

Your arguments are all over the place either they should get over it or they have a right to have to be pissed which is it.

Where are they all over the place? I've said that slavery should not be forgotten but that is no inconcistency. Perhaps you should reread my posts to understand this?

Kristok wrote:

The fact that you dont understand why the civil rights movement affects modern day america shows just how uninformed your views are. The world is not fair or equal and is very racist under the pc surface.

Do I not understand the civil rights movement? I have not said the world is fair or equal! I have said that no-one is owed anything and you have to work for what you get. Some people will will find this harder than others, but shockingly life is not fair and you need to accept that.

Kristok wrote:

As for what companies benifited from slavery you can google that if you really want to know.

I have and I can't find anything about "major american companies" tracing their success back to the days of slavery. Why don't you humour me and at least provide the search terms to prove your point.

Kristok wrote:

Im not interested in starting a thread in politics youve started this discussion by saying kanye should get over it all im saying is he has a right to not get over it and these are some of the many reasons why.

I gave my reasons for not wanting to listen to his music. You started the discussion on slavery in america.

Kristok wrote:

Im not trying to say your stupid or anything I see what your saying its just your views are only looking at the surface and completly overlooking the greater historical and political causes.

I'd certainly hope you're not saying that as you've no reason to!

I disagree with you but I don't think either of us will convince the other to change their mind so perhaps it's best if we leave it here.

Kristok

0utshined wrote:

perhaps it's best if we leave it here.

Indeed

FTA69

Wow, what a defeatist attitude. Are you saying that if I was born into poverty that's where I have to stay and I should accept my station in life? That's what it sounds like and I completely disagree. You can be born into a bad situation and rise above it.

I never stated that at all, I said that once born into poverty it is extremely hard to get out. My point was that the system stands in the way of such progress and as such should be changed to one of equality.

150 years IS a long time.

Not really, because as I pointed out, poverty is a viscious cycle and the failure to reparate or compensate after the end of slavery has resulted in the mass poverty we see today. The oppression of blacks did not end 150 years ago, it merely changed its form.

Your argument is flawed. Two events can exist without there being a causal relationship between them.

Really? So what is your reasoning for the mass poverty black people experience?

Latin America is not populated exclusively by caucasians. Colombia, Cuba and Brazil spring to mind though I'm sure there are more. Perhaps you should consider your own argument more carefully?

You're dodging the crux of my argument here, I'll put it to you again. Why do the vast majority of black Africans have white, Anglo-Saxon surnames? If they came from Cuba or Colombia they would have Hispanic surnames surely? As for your point on England and Holland, any possible black migration from these countries would pale into insignificance when compared to the millions of people shipped in from Africa.

I'll grant you that people from more deprived areas are possibly more susceptible to drug addiction but I still believe that everyone needs to take responsibility for their own actions.

There is nothing "possible" about it, it is a fact. Contrast the level of heroin addicts in Ballyfermot to that of Blackrock. People do indeed need to take responsibility for their actions, but to address a problem you need to address the social inequalities that produce them.

Is it? I would love to see your facts on this. Maybe you're right, I don't know and I'd wager that neither do you.

By "system" I was refferring to the controllers of a society that inflict social deprivation. The majority of those in the US government are white men. In fact, 496 of the top 500 corporations in America are controlled by white men. (According to Michael Moore)

I haven't but my friends have. I know people who have grown up in D4 and gone to private schools who have been on the Dole for a couple of years. At the same time I have friends who grew up in disadvantaged areas of Dublin who have worked hard and now earn more in a year than I'll probably see in 5. And they deserve it. They've worked hard and didn't have a defeatist attitude

And I see hundreds of people in the estate in which I used to live paying rent on houses they will never own, those who wait 2 years on a hospital waiting list while those with money can by themselves ahead. People shouldn't have to face such an uphill battle to get on in life, capitalist society is not an insurmountable obstacle either.

I said when your born you're owed nothing

I know you said that and it remains untrue. People are entitled to a job, decent housing, decent health care and an education. These are basic human rights, not priviliges that can be removed on the basis of wealth.

tibor

0utshined wrote:

I have and I can't find anything about "major american companies" tracing their success back to the days of slavery. Why don't you humour me and at least provide the search terms to prove your point.

Without getting into the validity, or otherwise, of reparation claims it's widely accepted knowledge that many hugely succesful companies did establish themselves initially on the back of slavery. Indeed, several of these companies have publicly apologised for their actions at the time. Examples include investments and banking giant J.P. Morgan Chase, insurer Aetna, railroad operator CSX and financial services firm FleetBoston.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/general/2002/02/21/slave-reparations.htm
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-slave05.html
http://www.usatoday.com/money/general/2002/03/27/reparations-suit.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=1830

You should read up a bit on slavery, abolishionists and the civil rights movement. Especially if you're going to try argue that slavery is irrelevant to the plight of black Americans today. :rolleyes:

On topic- I quite like College Dropout, but can't stand those stupid skit tracks. What's the point?

scuba steve

I like dat crazy b*****d. College Dropout great album

echomadman

i dont know whether to lock this or move it to humanities.

Kristok

why would you lock it, surly theres nothing wrong talking about something other than whos the best etc or whats your favourite etc.

Makaveli

Well it's completely off topic and it has gone well past any discussion of Hip-Hop, two reasons right there for it to be locked.

Kristok

Well lock every thread cause they all go off topic, and this didnt go that far off topic not like half the time when it starts about whos your favourite whatever and ends up about bloody graffiti or something. In fact all the so called off topic discussion was about what kanye said in his songs.

Makaveli

I'm not going to argue about this, you asked why would it be locked, I gave two valid reasons as to why it could be and I'm going to leave it at that. The irony of this is that it's off topic.

Kristok

im not looking to argue with you about anything you stuck your nose in.

Makaveli

Everybody is free to post and I'll post where I want to, if you don't like what I have to say that's your problem not mine.

Kristok

what are you on about, i posted something that was not aimed at you and you decided to post a reply. then you say you dont want to argue about it well fine dont but it was you who posted the reply in the first place so dont get all worked up when i answer you.

Makaveli

In what way am I getting worked up?
You posted a question and I answered it, anybody could have so I don't know what your problem is. Did you not like the answer? You were the one that got defensive when I replied so what are you on about?

Evzer

Well done to everyone for completely misunderstanding the song.

Seaneh

IMHO it's a good album, one of the best of the last 2 years.
The song with Jay-z and J-ivy is great as are Jesus Walks and we don't care.