provisional license

shane0312

I have a provisional license and am insured as a named driver on my mam's car. Could someone tell me whether or not my insurance is void if I Drive on my own without someone with a full license in the car with me?

Citizen_Erased

If on the license beside cars in restrictions there are the numbers 999 then you cannot by law drive without a qualified driver any way

seamus

No, it's not void unless the insurance policy says it is.

You are liable to prosecution though.

Funkstard

Everyone does it. None of my friends have ever been told to stop driving when the mofo's stopped them and they were by themselves in the car

jhegarty

shane0312 wrote:

I have a provisional license and am insured as a named driver on my mam's car. Could someone tell me whether or not my insurance is void if I Drive on my own without someone with a full license in the car with me?

your insurance is fine...

but the cops could take you to court (they won't, but they could)....

CTU_Agent

jhegarty wrote:

your insurance is fine...

but the cops could take you to court (they won't, but they could)....

I was taken to court for this very same thing...some insurance companies make you sign a form in the beginning saying you wont drive unaccompanied etc...besides that its against the law and dangerous...

Nuttzz

CTU_Agent wrote:

...dangerous...

How exactly? What is a passanger with a full licence going to do to avoid a crash, other than give some advice?

Citizen_Erased

Make sure they signal properly , dont go up a one way system , get lost in traffic calming , judging distances at junctions , changing lanes at roundabouts etc.. - such a long list that a qualified driver can help on

CTU_Agent

Nuttzz wrote:

How exactly? What is a passanger with a full licence going to do to avoid a crash, other than give some advice?

Thats how!! :rolleyes:

CTU_Agent

Funkstard wrote:

Everyone does it.

Oh everyone does it.... Well that must be ok then! :mad:

Nuttzz

like that happens...everyone loves a back seat driver.

Make sure they signal properly , dont go up a one way system , get lost in traffic calming , judging distances at junctions , changing lanes at roundabouts etc.. - such a long list that a qualified driver can help on

thats what driving instructors are for, not your mother you got her licence through the provisional licence amnesty years ago......

dawballz

Citizen_Erased wrote:

Make sure they signal properly , dont go up a one way system , get lost in traffic calming , judging distances at junctions , changing lanes at roundabouts etc.. - such a long list that a qualified driver can help on

So what's the definition of a qualified driver?
My father didn't even have to do a test, and he has a full license.
Is he a qualified driver?

Anyway, the gardai can't enforce this law, in fairness.
The waiting list for most tests is >8 weeks, some places I've heard(though might not be true) up to a year.

Citizen_Erased

So now your saying the prov license should be changed so you can only go outdriving with qualified instructors?

Nuttzz

from www.drivingtest.ie

Average For All Centres 54.0% (pass rate) 39.3 (waiting time in weeks)

Loughrea has a waiting time of 14 weeks
Dungravan has a waiting time of 61 weeks

commited

The easy and proper answer to this is don't drive on your own.
It's illegal and it's disgusting that someone can hop in a car over here with no driving experience and drive on their own, without even fearing that they will be caught. I'd love to see a clamp down on this and learners who drive on the motorway.
Your parents should be responsible enough not to let you drive unaccompanied.

dawballz

Nuttzz wrote:

from www.drivingtest.ie

Average For All Centres 54.0% (pass rate) 39.3 (waiting time in weeks)

Loughrea has a waiting time of 14 weeks
Dungravan has a waiting time of 61 weeks

Yeah sorry.. I didn't want to over exaggerate without the facts but there they are . The GF has her test booked in Loughrea actually. Booked it about 2-3 weeks ago so we'll see how she gets on.

It simply isn't possible to have a "qualified" driver beside you all the time.
The GF is in Galway. Her parents are in Kilkenny. Do you think she is going to give them a call and say "Come up to Galway so I can take the car out to go for a McDonalds".
I don't.
It's a ridiculous law.

fletch

Nuttzz wrote:

from www.drivingtest.ie

Average For All Centres 54.0% (pass rate) 39.3 (waiting time in weeks)

Loughrea has a waiting time of 14 weeks
Dungravan has a waiting time of 61 weeks

I can't stop laughin at the maps to the test centres on a goverment official website....it looks like a kid doodling in MS paint
Check out the map to finglas

sceptre

Citizen_Erased wrote:

So now your saying the prov license should be changed so you can only go outdriving with qualified instructors?

I don't think anyone said anything of the sort but now that you mention it, I'd happily support this at least during an initial period. And re-testing every few years while we're at it.

Nuttzz

commited wrote:

Your parents should be responsible enough not to let you drive unaccompanied.

mmmm not every learner driver is a kid...I have a 35 year old friend who is just learning to drive. His 70 year old mother will be a great help to him when he's out driving...

Citizen_Erased

Doesnt matter what your age , your as much a beginner as an 18 year old and just as liable to an accident.

Nuttzz

Citizen_Erased wrote:

Doesnt matter what your age , your as much a beginner as an 18 year old and just as liable to an accident.

I agree with you, I was just pointing out that not every L driver is a 17-18 year old living at home

interesting and mildly related article

http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/140clarkson/01/

commited

Nuttzz wrote:

mmmm not every learner driver is a kid...I have a 35 year old friend who is just learning to drive. His 70 year old mother will be a great help to him when he's out driving...

I realise that, but is he insured under his mothers name?

commited

dawballz wrote:

It's a ridiculous law.

Why is it? Why should someone be able to hop into a car with absolutely no knowledge and drive a car on their own with no formal instruction?
As far as I know, every other European country is the same. The makes a RIDICULOUS amount of sense. You arent qualified to drive on your own, thus you shouldn't.

dawballz

commited wrote:

Why is it? Why should someone be able to hop into a car with absolutely no knowledge and drive a car on their own with no formal instruction?
As far as I know, every other European country is the same. The makes a RIDICULOUS amount of sense. You arent qualified to drive on your own, thus you shouldn't.

Umm driver theory test doesn't count then, no?

commited

dawballz wrote:

Umm driver theory test doesn't count then, no?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

You cant read a book and know how to drive.

dawballz

commited wrote:

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

You cant read a book and know how to drive.

Yeah, and someone can't just tell you how to drive either.
Practice makes perfect.

astec123

The point is that a qualified driver has had proper practice, and in theory drives the car as per the requirements of the test, so they know how to drive, a provis driver is a noob and has no skill or knowledge. I accept it seems silly but its the law. I know of racing drivers that have no licence to drive a car etc. But the law is there to protect you and everyone else. The idea of the fully licenced driver is based upon the fact that if is required the noob can switch if they cannot hack it. No driver is perfect, I remember my instructor took me home after the first lesson and did everything wrong, but the idea of the co-pilot is to be there to assist you. I totally disagree with the 2nd year of a provis licence where the licencee can drive freely, but then the 3rd year they are back to basics, it makes no sense.

The laws are there, obey them, little more, complain, campaign etc, but dont risk my life or yours. Simple really.

Guy:Incognito

dawballz wrote:

It's a ridiculous law.

No, it's a perfectly good law, the law that akllows provisional licensed drivers to drive a car outside of actually learning to drive (being thought) is th eridiculous law.

Guy:Incognito

dawballz wrote:

Umm driver theory test doesn't count then, no?

And heres me reading the soccer forum everyday, and guess what, no £50,000 a week contract from Liverpool has dropped through the door yet. Do these people not realise I've been reading about football for years so it would stand to reason I'm great at it. :rolleyes:

commited

dawballz wrote:

Yeah, and someone can't just tell you how to drive either.
Practice makes perfect.

And you can practice with a fully qualified driver with you. If you have no fully qualified driver available, then you can pay for lessons like the rest of us.

astec123 wrote:

I totally disagree with the 2nd year of a provis licence where the licencee can drive freely, but then the 3rd year they are back to basics, it makes no sense.

The laws are there, obey them, little more, complain, campaign etc, but dont risk my life or yours. Simple really.

Agree on both points.

dawballz

astec123 wrote:

The point is that a qualified driver has had proper practice, and in theory drives the car as per the requirements of the test, so they know how to drive, a provis driver is a noob and has no skill or knowledge. I accept it seems silly but its the law. I know of racing drivers that have no licence to drive a car etc. But the law is there to protect you and everyone else. The idea of the fully licenced driver is based upon the fact that if is required the noob can switch if they cannot hack it. No driver is perfect, I remember my instructor took me home after the first lesson and did everything wrong, but the idea of the co-pilot is to be there to assist you. I totally disagree with the 2nd year of a provis licence where the licencee can drive freely, but then the 3rd year they are back to basics, it makes no sense.

The laws are there, obey them, little more, complain, campaign etc, but dont risk my life or yours. Simple really.

What is your definition of a qualified driver?
My father has been driving for I don't know how many years(a lot), he has a full license but never did a test. I know plenty of others who are in the same boat.

A new driver is a cautious one imo.
When I got my bike, for the first few months, I was very nervous, which is a good thing imo.
A "qualified" driver could put me under pressure. I know for sure that if my father was in the seat beside me while I was driving, I wouldn't be very happy.
He just wouldn't have the patience.

What about a motorbike? Since it's illegal to carry a pillion passenger(afaik) on a prov. license, are they exempt from this law?

jhegarty

commited wrote:

And you can practice with a fully qualified driver with you. If you have no fully qualified driver available, then you can pay for lessons like the rest of us.


Agree on both points.

how man lessons should you have in the 12 months you are waiting for your test... and by the way you just paid €4,500 for your insurance that year too....

Nuttzz

Both my parents got their driving licences without doing any test, my mother had a "complete" full licence, she was licenced to drive motorbike and HGV's despite never driving one. So if I had of applied for my provisional HGV licence years ago my mother could have could have been my "qualified" driver.

/edit: the law has since changed and she doesnt have a hgv licence anymore

Simple solutions that I see would be to replace a useless subject like religion in our schools and replace it with driver education, and make sitting your test a part of the leaving cert.

whippet

to the OP, if your girlfriend want's to go to mcdonalds she should walk, bus, taxi or a lift ... or if she really wants to drive .. pass the test. My 15 year old cousin would love to be able to drive to school, but I don't her him complaining that it is a stupid law that requires him to have a license to drive.

To be in a position to drive unaccompanied needs to be earned and you have to prove that you are capable of doing it, there are too many dangers and lives at risk by incompetant drivers.

The amount you spend on driving lessons is reflected on how good a driver you are and how quickly you learn, whereby huge initial insurnace premiums (wrightly or wrongly) are a reflection of the risk that is associated with a driver who has not shown the competancy of passing a simple driving test.

Driving should be seen as an honour not a right.

OMcGovern

I think it's madness that someone can drive to their driving test.... completely fail it... showing that they're still not ready to drive competantly on our roads.
Then they are entitled to drive their car home........

Tis madness I say.... madness.

What about old people who cling on to their licenses until their eyesight fails ?
Do you reckon their should be a driver retest at age 65, 70, 75 etc ?
Or are we tolerating slow, awkward, and mildly dangerous old drivers for humane reasons, rather than safety reasons ?

regards,
Owen

thatkindofgirl

Nuttzz wrote:

mmmm not every learner driver is a kid...I have a 35 year old friend who is just learning to drive. His 70 year old mother will be a great help to him when he's out driving...

Hire a driving instructor then. It's not really that complicated. :rolleyes:

koneko

The whole system needs an overhaul, but that's such a monumentous task it's unlikely to ever happen.

The system works much better in other European countries, like Holland. You *have to* clock up a certain amount of hours with instructors, and then you do your test (short waiting times). Then when you pass, you're allowed to drive. The only reason people here drive on their own is because the waiting times are so incredible (a year?!?!). Then again there are those that take advantage and drive on a provisional for years. When I went in for my test, there was a middle-aged woman there who had been driving for 11 years, and was going in for her test now - she had failed multiple times before (she didn't get to do her test that time because of a technicality, didn't have her L-plates up or a light wasn't working, or something equally stupid she should have checked before coming in, but she couldn't possibly have cared less)..

Nuttzz

thatkindofgirl wrote:

Hire a driving instructor then. It's not really that complicated. :rolleyes:

he has, and completed his 10 lessons and knows the basics on how to drive.

do you sugguest that he brings his driving instructor on his daily commute too :eek: :rolleyes:

Alun

Nuttzz wrote:

he has, and completed his 10 lessons and knows the basics on how to drive.

do you sugguest that he brings his driving instructor on his daily commute too :eek: :rolleyes:

No, he should do what everyone else should do in his circumstances and take the bus / train / bicycle or whatever. Merely buying a car doesn't infer some unalienable right to drive it on the public roads.

OMcGovern

Nuttzz wrote:

he has, and completed his 10 lessons and knows the basics on how to drive.

No... he knows the basics of how to control a car.
That's nothing to do with lane discipline, safe overtaking, judgement of hazards, rain, snow and night driving. You get a sixth sense on predicting other drivers behaviours after a while.... essential when they don't signal properly eg. taxi drivers.

Nuttzz

Alun wrote:

Merely buying a car doesn't infer some unalienable right to drive it on the public roads.

While I agree, the system isnt set up like that, if you have the money to buy a car, insure & tax it you can do what ever you want on the roads at the moment

No... he knows the basics of how to control a car.
That's nothing to do with lane discipline, safe overtaking, judgement of hazards, rain, snow and night driving. You get a sixth sense on predicting other drivers behaviours after a while.... essential when they don't signal properly eg. taxi drivers.

and he isnt going to learn any of these by leaving his car sitting in the driveway either.

I have been driving 15+ years and I can count on one hand how many times I have driven in snow.

Alun

Nuttzz wrote:

While I agree, the system isnt set up like that, if you have the money to buy a car, insure & tax it you can do what ever you want on the roads at the moment

Au contraire ... the system is such that what he's doing is illegal, it just isn't enforced like so many laws in this country.

That however doesn't however give you, your mate, or anyone else for that matter carte blanche to just ignore it. This isn't a law designed just to irritate and annoy people, you know, it's there to protect other road users from incompetent idiots. And yes, I know that there are plenty of incompetent idiots out there with full licences, but again we come back to the subject of enforcement of the law. In a properly policed system these people would be off the roads in the blink of an eye, but they aren't.

Alun

Nuttzz wrote:

and he isnt going to learn any of these by leaving his car sitting in the driveway either. .

And how, pray, will he learn these by driving on his own with no-one to point out his mistakes? That's what driving schools are for.

Nuttzz

system was the wrong choice of words on my part, perhaps situation would have been better.

It is all down to enforcement, however as I stated eariler in the thread we should try and introduce driver education into the schools and prevent situations where we have unqualified drivers driving our streets.

With the current situation of long waiting times for tests etc it is sad but no surprising that people flout the law

steviec

Alun wrote:

And how, pray, will he learn these by driving on his own with no-one to point out his mistakes? That's what driving schools are for.

So your saying the best way for someone to learn to drive is to book the test now, wait about 45 weeks without setting foot in a car, then book lots of lessons for the weeks leading up to the test(unless your a millionaire and can afford a whole year of lessons), then go into the test with no experience whatsoever of driving on their own without being told what to do constantly? Is that how you went into your test?

Alun

steviec wrote:

So your saying the best way for someone to learn to drive is to book the test now, wait about 45 weeks without setting foot in a car, then book lots of lessons for the weeks leading up to the test(unless your a millionaire and can afford a whole year of lessons), then go into the test with no experience whatsoever of driving on their own without being told what to do constantly?

I'm not saying anything of the sort. How you deal with the waiting time for the test is entirely up to you, but you could, say, have a few lessons to begin with to get the basics right, drive as regularly as you can with a qualified driver, possibly with the odd lesson in between until you get your test date when you would resume regular lessons. The incompetence of the government in dealing with the waiting list problem is no excuse to break the law.

And why is "driving on your own without being told what to do all the time" a prerequisite for passing a test? Pretty much every country in the civilized world operates system like that, why should we be any different?

Is that how you went into your test?

No, I passed mine 31 years ago in the UK. I took my first lesson on my 17th birthday, and passed (first time) 3 months later. Took regular lessons during this time (once a week) and drove my parents' car (with one of them in it) in the meantime.

Citizen_Erased

This whole question was sparked because somebody with a provisional license wanted to take the car to the shop or a party.

That is the problem, you want to dive in too soon and get in on the driving scene too soon. Its like this , until you get your full license the car to you is only for learning , it is not a utility to you until you have passed your test. So until then , the only reason you should be driving a car is on a educational basis anyway. Youve last without the car up until then and your going to have to for what ever time it takes to earn your license.
Would you feel happy that as soom as someone got their students pilots license , they flew you to say, France. The might have got no air time , but they can still do it.

Alun

Well said. Here the order of events seems to be 1) Buy car 2) Drive 3) Take test as opposed to the rest of the world where it's 1) Learn to drive 2) Take test 3) Buy car.

whippet

'So your saying the best way for someone to learn to drive is to book the test now, wait about 45 weeks without setting foot in a car, then book lots of lessons for the weeks leading up to the test(unless your a millionaire and can afford a whole year of lessons), then go into the test with no experience whatsoever of driving on their own without being told what to do constantly? Is that how you went into your test?'

The provisional license is designed to allow un-licensed drivers drive for the purpose of learning. Do what myself and most of my peers did ... get provisional license, do about 5-10 lessons, get insured on mammy's or daddy's car. Get a little experience on saturdays when mammy lets you drive home from shops, or daddy gives you a lesson. Then when the test comes around .. a few more lessons and a pre-test or two and bob's your uncle you then can drive on your own should you pass.

The excuse of can't afford insurance or a lesson or car or any combination of the three dosn't wash with me. Capitalism is a reality and like it or hate it those with more money can afford more or better access to insurance, cars, lessons etc ... but everyone must sit the same test and adhere to the laws of the land regarding provisional licenses.

lilulila

Nuttzz wrote:

Simple solutions that I see would be to replace a useless subject like religion in our schools and replace it with driver education, and make sitting your test a part of the leaving cert.

I agree driving is a skill that 90% of the country require. It should be introced onto the schools. Also they could have classes which expand on hazzards like the ignition course. I did the ignition course last thursday and it really opened my eyes.

Citizen_Erased

You seem to have missed my point , what I was saying is yes , you may drive the car with just a qualified driver all you want , but not to think that the car is a tool for you to use for yourself eg going to clubs etc until you yourself are a qualified driver.