Vintners say cafe bars will not reduce binge-drinking

Imposter

indo wrote:

Vintners say cafe bars will not reduce binge-drinking

The Licensed Vintners' Association has said the Government's plans to introduce new licences for so-called cafe bars will do nothing to prevent binge-drinking.

Justice Minister Michael McDowell has announced plans to introduce new licences for such premises in an effort to promote a "Mediterranean-style" drinking culture in Ireland.

However, the LVA, which represents Dublin publicans, said any move to increase the number of drinking outlets in the country would lead to an accompanying increase in public order problems.

The association's chief executive, Donal O'Keefe, also said there was no demand for an increase in the number of pubs.

"Who wants more pubs in Ireland?" he asked. "Do consumers want it, do the enforcement authorities, do the health professionals?

"And how can you say, in an Irish context, with out cultural attitude to alcohol, that more pubs will contribute to a reduction in binge-drinking?"

lol @ the LVA!
Methinks customers do want more choice seeing as what exists at the moment is basically what amounts to a cartel.

As for how this measure will create more public order problems i'd love to know! :rolleyes:

Trojan

"Do consumers want it, do the enforcement authorities, do the health professionals?"

Yes, I as a consumer want more pubs and thus more competition, and an end to ridiculous price hikes from the LVA.

kenmc

"thirded"

Villain

I really fail to see how more pubs will help the drink culture, yea sure they will be smaller and food will be served but young people will still want to get as drunk as possible, it's a mindset and a few cafe bar's won't change that.

toiletduck

irish1 wrote:

I really fail to see how more pubs will help the drink culture, yea sure they will be smaller and food will be served but young people will still want to get as drunk as possible, it's a mindset and a few cafe bar's won't change that.

too right, if people (not just the young) want to get drunk there's not much anyone can do to change that. This cafe-bar thing wont change the current situation (where people drink to get drunk) one bit.

Quantum

Well - if the The Licensed Vintners' Association said it.... wow ... now THAT is what I call CREDIBILITY !!!

What was it they said about job losses if the Smoking ban came in ?

Boggle

More competition = lower prices.
Might explain why the vitners are not too happy about the proposals.

I saying that though I have to acknowledge that, since the smoking ban, alot of pubs are now relying on their food trade during the week to make money and only really make money from drink at the weekends so there is a distinct possibility that this could lead to the closure of a some pubs.

Villain

Quantum wrote:

Well - if the The Licensed Vintners' Association said it.... wow ... now THAT is what I call CREDIBILITY !!!

What was it they said about job losses if the Smoking ban came in ?

Actually you might be surprised by the stats on job losses since the ban was introduced.

i71jskz5xu42pb

.... surprise us

Personally, I'd be surprised if you have any stats on the job losses caused by the smoking ban.

irish1 wrote:

Actually you might be surprised by the stats on job losses since the ban was introduced.

toiletduck

Quantum wrote:

Well - if the The Licensed Vintners' Association said it.... wow ... now THAT is what I call CREDIBILITY !!!

What was it they said about job losses if the Smoking ban came in ?

i worked in a pub for the past five summers (this one im on placement!) and i can assure you from my experience that there have been a lot of job loses nd bars closing or opening later in the day due to a lack of customers.

A Dub in Glasgo

Shock Horror Report!!! - The LVA do not agree with more pub type establishments

It is like asking Turkeys to vote for Christmas

Villain

I don't have stats at hand but I have heard them being quoted recently and they surprised me, something like 20 pubs in Co. Clare has closed in the past year and there has been hundreds of job losses.

Quantum

toiletduck wrote:

i worked in a pub for the past five summers (this one im on placement!) and i can assure you from my experience that there have been a lot of job loses nd bars closing or opening later in the day due to a lack of customers.

No one said that not a single job has been lost in the period since the Smoking ban was introduced. No one !

But compare the actual situation with the predictions from the "The Licensed Vintners' Association" before the ban......... !

The fact is that some pubs have taken on more staff... and some have let some go. That's the way things go in business all the time. Some pubs close.. other open up.

Then back on topic

MrPudding

For me the vintners are the same as taxi drivers. If they complain about something then it is probably good for us.

MrP

Lemming

Interesting .....

Whilst I would view this press statement with the serious due consideration that it deserves (ie. not much given the source), I would agree with the statement that it will not curb binge-drinking.

Now allow me elaborate. It will not in itself curb binge-drinking, since binge-drinking currently takes place in clubs & pubs. If you look at many of these places nowadays what do they have in common?

Lots of people rammed in (thus increasing the ambient temperature), and lots of noise. So you can't really talk for long periods of time. What do you do? Drink!! What else of course. I mean it's not like it's intenional or anything on the part of the LVA now is it? Same as with that bastion of pub delicacies .... peanuts, which funnily enough make you thirsty ....

Add to that, a publican who will keep happily plying you with alcohol so long as you keep handing over money when you aren't even able to stand straight for more than two seconds and really shouldn't be given any more drink - which is another issue.

Now lets look at a cafe-bar. Noise level would be significantly lower, and not as rammed with people since well, tables & chairs tend to get in the way ... And lets face it .... trying to listen (since you can funnily enough ...) to some drunken muppet slurring every second syllabel is really going to get the nod of approval isn't it? Add to this that cafe staff would not likely be so eager to serve someone utterly paralatic since they most likely wont have "security" staff to hand should the sh*t hit the fan.

Moriarty

Naturally any job losses have nothing to do with high prices driving customers away, and everything to do with the smoking ban. It must be awfully handy when there's always someone else to blame.

Trojan

I, and most of my drinking friends (group of ~10, aged 24-30) have reduced our social outing to licensed premises to about 20% of the previous level (e.g. where we might have gone out 10 times in a month, we would now meet in a pub about twice/month).

The *only* reason is the enormous price hikes in the last 5 years. The smoking ban has no relevance to our avoidance of the pubs, the owners are 100% responsible for their loss of our business.

To the LVA & publicans: quit blaming the smoking ban, you muppets.

MrPudding

Trojan wrote:

The *only* reason is the enormous price hikes in the last 5 years. The smoking ban has no relevance to our avoidance of the pubs, the owners are 100% responsible for their loss of our business.

To the LVA & publicans: quit blaming the smoking ban, you muppets.

*Sigh* They charge the high prices because they are worried about the health of the Irish people. If is not about profiteering, they are doing their bit to try to curb binge drinking.

MrP

murphaph

Fcuk the LVA and the VFI. They couldn't give a toss about job losses, only about their members' profits. Like MrP said, if they complain it's probably good for joe public. have to say I'm really quite glad folks are finally voting with their feet and staying in more. Publicans need to feel the harsh wind of competition and realise that they're running businesses, not mints.

SkepticOne

MrPudding wrote:

*Sigh* They charge the high prices because they are worried about the health of the Irish people. If is not about profiteering, they are doing their bit to try to curb binge drinking.

Well said! People are far too cynical these days.

por

The introduction of cafe-bars will not curb 'binge drinking' or solve social order issues. What the minister is trying to do i.e. introduce a eating rather than a drinking culture, will take years to develop.
What the cafe-bars will do is offer an alternative to super pubs for those of us who are getting on and would like an alternative to the traditional pub for a night out. Some might say that alternative already exists in the form of restaurants, however with the prices most of they charge a visit to a restaurant is more like a luxury that a regular weekend night out.
I only hope the cafe-bars will see the sense and offer value for money dining\drinking something most restaurants do not do IMO.

As for pubs losing business due to smoking ban, well yes the smoking ban is a factor but so too are the prices charged and the alleged crack down on drink driving.

The problem with the LVF and VFI are that they seem to have no notion of how to evolve; if they do not change the Irish Pub as we know it will become extinct, and the only ones moaning about it will be the LVF and VFI

murphaph

por wrote:

The problem with the LVF and VFI are that they seem to have no notion of how to evolve; if they do not change the Irish Pub as we know it will become extinct, and the only ones moaning about it will be the LVF and VFI

Yeah the LVF should take a lead from the IRA.....