Right, I'm considering trying Linux, alot of questions

mp3guy

I'm almost finished building a new pc, and I'm seriously considering dual booting XP SP2 with Linux. I've done a little bit of research and Fedora looks good. The spec of my new pc is as follows;

Pentium 4 Prescott 2.4GHz
GeForce 3 Ti 500
80GB 7200RPM Hard Drive
512MB Ram
Sony CRX320E CDRW/DVD
Onboard AC'97 Audio

I'm thinking of making a 40GB/40GB split, one partition for each OS. I'd like to use Linux for browsing the internet (it would be connected through a router, it appears as a LAN connection on WinXP), listening to music and word processing etc. I'd like to use WinXP for video editing and playing games.

How well would this work out? I will be networking this computer with another computer (Windows XP SP2)

Any advice would be appreciated.

Ste-

That setup should be fine, once your router connects to your pc through ethernet there should be no problem.

Browsing the web, there are numerous browsers my personal favorite being firefox, easily installed.
Word processing etc can be done with openoffice.

Browsing to the other pc can be a bit trickier but samba copes with it quite well.
There are dozens of articles around regarding each point but for what you want fedora would be a good starting point.

mp3guy

Where could I get a copy of the lastest version? The download would put quite a dent in my bandwidth.

zAbbo

Ubuntu seems to be the new users distro of choice, thats what id go with.

Download the cd or order it for free.

http://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/ubuntu-releases/5.04/

Check out the posts on this forum about ubuntu, or http://ubuntuguide.org/ - http://www.ubuntuforums.org/

NotMe

Yeah I'd go with Ubuntu (I did!). It's only one install cd < 700 MB.

mp3guy

Can someone explain these different OS's. Are they just different flavours of linux? i.e. will "linux" software work on any of them?

zAbbo

Just different flavours, ubuntu is based on Debian, which is a very well supported flavour.

The reason i advise ubuntu is because its easy to install and easy to use. Most software is available for each flavour, usually through a packages manager(think add/remove programs in windows) except you have access to a vast amount of software, which can be searched for and installed.

Most people mess with a few different flavours, and settle on one.

There is no 'best' flavour or version(whatever gentoo users tell you).

Like i said, go with Ubuntu, there is a thriving community for it right now, and as i said it is more user friendly.

Id consider following the unbuntu guide link i showed you, that is after, you've installed it which only takes 20mins.

It may be better just to install it on its own on a seperate hdd, if you're just learning, maybe even do a few installs until you get upto speed, read the guides on ubuntuforums as well, use the search there, any problems you have will already be answered

mp3guy

Well, i don't have a separate Hdd, but will a partition do?

Rollo Tamasi

mp3guy wrote:

I'm thinking of making a 40GB/40GB split, one partition for each OS.

Am i missing something? Wouldn't he have to use two different harddrives as windows and linux use different file systems?

mp3guy

Can't I make 2 partitions, and format them differently? AFAIK, you can do just that.

secret_squirrel

mp3guy wrote:

Can't I make 2 partitions, and format them differently?

thats fine. 2 Harddrives would be slightly better (imo) from an integrity point of view but if you dont have that option 2 or more partitions on the drive is fine.

Its a long time since I last installed Linux but the recommended install was 2-3 partitions. (Swap/OS/Data). This might not be the case now. Im sure someone will clarify.

mp3guy

What file system does linux use?

angelofdeath

reiserfs or ext3, reiserfs being faster, you should use it, i would suggest maybe setting up a fat32 (vfat) partition for sharing files between the two os's as both operating systems will be able to read/write to it

mp3guy

ok, so two 37.5GB partitions and one 5GB fat32 partition. Should something like partition magic be able to format it reiserfs or will linux do it automatically?

zAbbo

The way i would do it, is install windows, make a 35gb(or whatever) partition NTFS for windows, and a 5gb FAT32 partition, using the windows install, install windows, then install linux, and allow it to auto partition using free space.

You'll have to install windows first, then linux(well its easier)

angelofdeath

well yes, install windows, resize and set up your fat32 partition with partition magic, leaving free space for linux, install linux


personnally, i'd be inclined to make the fat32 partition quite a bit bigger

tomk

As mentioned by secret_squirrel, don't forget your swap partition. I generally make mine around twice the size of RAM, which would be 1G for you.

Cake Fiend

I'd go for a bigger shared Fat32 partition as well, and install linux into far less than 37.5 gigs (although I'd also install windows into a partition far smaller tbh).

It might be worth making a seperate /home partiton, as somewhere to keep config files, data, etc if you decide to change linux flavours. Hell, you could triple boot if you wanted and have the same user config shared by two seperate linux installations.

Chalk

partition wise
5 gigs for xp
5 gigs linus
1 gig for swap,
and then the rest in 20 gig partitions of fat32, this will leave you the option of converting parts of the drive to ntfs if you need it for anything, games / large isos or whatever

mp3guy

Just wondering, what's mandriva like?

mp3guy

Oh, and can I use the i586 version on my p4 prescott, or should i get the x86_64 version?

RE*AC*TOR

i586 version.

Mandriva (formerly mandrake) is easy to setup and use. Personally I don't like it, because I feel it takes over everything for you. But its worth a try definetly - its one of the most popular distros.

I'd also suggest Ubuntu its lightweight, quick, has a thriving community and brilliant software repositories. Howeer, if you're not so sure of partitioning Mandriva has a much easier to use partitioning tool in the install.

mp3guy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions

According to this, Mandriva supports NTFS

secret_squirrel

Cant say for sure but didnt NTFS support use to be read only??

tomk

Kernel NTFS supports both read and write, but write is flagged as experimental, and AFAIR is restricted to changes to existing files without changing the file size. The other approach is Captive NTFS , which uses the M$ NTFS driver with WINE-type emulation.

Fenster

Just on file systems-Unix file systems work much different that FAT32 and NTFS. Where with NTFS, everything is written to the disk immediately, with the likes of Reiser (especially Reiser) and EXT2/3 data is loaded into memory and only written to the disk as needed. Assuming you have lots of memory, it makes for a much faster and smoother OS, in my experience.

declan_lgs

tomk wrote:

Kernel NTFS supports both read and write, but write is flagged as experimental, and AFAIR is restricted to changes to existing files without changing the file size.

Yes. It's only use is deleting files.
Proper kernel NTFS write will likely never happen, so the best option is to use captiveNTFS mp3guy, as tomk said.

zoro

well I've gone and made the jump as well - but I'm intending to use ubuntu as my _home_ OS, not my work one Khannie
Lets see who's got bigger balls

Anyway - first impressions after a whole day of using it - thumbs up so far.
I haven't had to do a whole lot of stuff, but i'm happy enough at the moment that I have what I need.
A 15 minute start-to-finish install process was very impressive, but the installer just leaves you with the bare essentials, so if you're going to move to ubuntu make sure you know what you want

As far as gaming is concerned (the major turning point for me - no UT2004 + TeamSpeak, then no linux), after a heart wrenching 12 hours of drunken wrangling I finally got the sound working with ALSA so that UT2004 would run as it should.
Graphics (ATI 9800 pro) was a very straight forward job - cheers to the ubuntu devs!

I'll be a regular reader in here from now on I think, you never know what you could learn
Now, if only I could find a linux version of editplus ...

Syth

Fenster wrote:

Just on file systems-Unix file systems work much different that FAT32 and NTFS. Where with NTFS, everything is written to the disk immediately, with the likes of Reiser (especially Reiser) and EXT2/3 data is loaded into memory and only written to the disk as needed. Assuming you have lots of memory, it makes for a much faster and smoother OS, in my experience.

Of course a problem with that is that if you don't unmount the filesystem, any changes you make might not be saved and your file system might get fscked. But you rarely have to shutdown your PC incorrectly

declan_lgs

zoro wrote:

Now, if only I could find a linux version of editplus ...

Looks like wine can run that:
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=2684

Jedit, emacs, or vim might fit your needs either.

zoro

declan_lgs wrote:

Looks like wine can run that:
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=2684

Jedit, emacs, or vim might fit your needs either.

I'm not leaving windows just so I can fight like hell to emulate the bloody thing
And vi/vim is NOT on the top of my most-wanted list
I'll have alooky and Jedit and emacs though - thanks

tman

Chalk wrote:

partition wise
5 gigs for xp
5 gigs linus
1 gig for swap,
and then the rest in 20 gig partitions of fat32, this will leave you the option of converting parts of the drive to ntfs if you need it for anything, games / large isos or whatever

5 gigs is a little small for xp tbh
7-10 would be better (or bigger if you're too lazy to change the install path of programs)

Red Alert

I've got an 80 Gig Drive - 1G Swap, 40Gig XP, ~39Gig Ext3.

Khannie

zoro wrote:

Lets see who's got bigger balls

*looks in trousers*

You lose.

zoro wrote:

As far as gaming is concerned (the major turning point for me - no UT2004 + TeamSpeak, then no linux)

I'm the same. Even had the 9800 pro, but I ditched it for a 6600GT when I saw a thread on the ubuntu forums comparing glxgears scores.

Poor zoro has had sound trouble in UT2K4 that I haven't had, but I'm not using a creative sound card. Muse dvd something or other.

I was having trouble with my nostromo (which I am so used to that a keyboard isn't an option for gaming any more) but I have found a workaround for that.

I'm on the verge of a 100% switch. I found a howto thread on running dvdshrink and nero through a windits emulator. I consider them essential kit. My son is /excellent/ at scratching my dvd's.

zoro wrote:

Now, if only I could find a linux version of editplus ...

I have another thread on this. I recommend....... *drum roll* kate. I know you'll be using it for coding, and kate is lighter than kdevelop. It does require KDE libraries though, which don't come as standard with ubuntu, so it'll require some serious apt-get'age.

RE*AC*TOR

Khannie wrote:

I'm on the verge of a 100% switch. I found a howto thread on running dvdshrink and nero through a windits emulator. I consider them essential kit. My son is /excellent/ at scratching my dvd's.

http://www.nero.com/en/NeroLINUX.html

Khannie

Nice linkage.

I only have an OEM version, so I hope that works for the registration. I'll download it when I get home if it does.

nadir

k3b is better than nero imho.
vim is the best for coding.

also, people definately had teamspeak working in linux, I remember them talking about it in irc. I think they were using wine.

petes

Just installed ubuntu. Very easy. And only took about half hour. On widescreen laptop and tis working grand.

Chalk

tman wrote:

5 gigs is a little small for xp tbh
7-10 would be better (or bigger if you're too lazy to change the install path of programs)

5 gigs covers
xp pro install
full office 03 install
firewall + av
about 10-12 other programs i use - media players/ftp server+client the usual stuff
have about 700 megs free.

I use another partition for games and additonal program installs - havent installed a game since last reformat and every program i use seems to have an install of less than 800megs, so thats empty atm.

Its a good basic install that covers all bases with a bit of room to play around.
basically i just wanted my install to fit onto a single disc for easy backup.

i should probaly leave more room for page/swap file, but i reckon i might just be too cool for that

Khannie

nadir wrote:

k3b is better than nero imho.

I'll give that a bash. Thanks.

nadir wrote:

vim is the best for coding.

Not when you're coming from a windows environment and / or lazy. I've been coding for nearly ten years now and I still haven't bothered my hole to learn vi properly. Plus, Kate is an excellent editor.

nadir wrote:

also, people definately had teamspeak working in linux, I remember them talking about it in irc. I think they were using wine.

I got teamspeak working natively last night. Then I ran into Zoro's problem of being able to hear everything from everywhere on the map in UT2004. Reckon it's to do with the OSS drivers. I'm trying to backpedal to ESD as fast as I can (but trying to get multiple sound sources working with it).

pickarooney

DVD::Rip pretty much pwns as far as DVD ripping/encoding/burning programs go. I'd use K3b for normal, everyday archiving though.